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Author Topic: Tire Failure On Pop Up  (Read 11757 times)

hans4122

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Tire Failure On Pop Up
« on: November 07, 2005, 08:51:02 PM »
I am a newcomer to the RV world and new to this forum.  I recently purchased a 2003 Rockwood 2516G Pop Up from a dealer in Washington DC.  RV is in great shape.  Rarely used.  Dealer said it had been on their lot for almost a year.  We just returned from our first trip 700 mi. round trip.

On our return trip approx 400 mi. usage we had a tire blow out. After getting repaired, spent the night in a hotel, and we were off again. About 250 more miles and the other tire blew. Fortunately, at an exit ramp. I now have 2 new tires on my camper. 

My question for any of you experienced tow'ers is this dumb luck?  I checked the load ratings on the 13" tires specified.  They are rated for 1360 lbs each. The dry weight on the trailer is around 2800 lbs. I'm sure I had 3-400lbs of gear in the storage bin as well.  The tires just look inadequate.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated. My kids enjoy the experience and thought the whole tire thing was a great adventure.  My wife is freaked out!  Thanks for any help. 

Greg H
Fairfax, VA.

Ned

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2005, 09:00:37 PM »
The numbers you give tell the story.  The 2 tires will carry 2720 lbs and that is less than the dry weight of the trailer.  With your load, you're well over the rating of the tires.  You need to move up at least one load range on the tires for your weight.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Ron

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2005, 09:42:52 PM »
I agree with Ned.  Most probable cause is the tires are overloaded.  How did you determine the dry weight of the trailer is 2800 lbs.?
Might be a good idea to go to a scale and get the actual weight of the trailer.  Not good to guess on these things.  After getting the actual weight of the trailer your tire dealer may be able to assist you in getting tires capable of carrying the load.  Have him show the tire capacity charts for the tires being installed.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

hans4122

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2005, 09:50:26 PM »
The load was right out of the trailer manual and also on the sticker with the VIN number.  I suspected the load was the issue.  I will see if I can find a better tire.  Seems like the manufacturer would have thought this type of thing through.  Thanks for the advice.

Ron from Big D

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2005, 10:12:36 PM »
Ned and Ron overlooked two other factors not discussed.  What was the tire inflation?  If less than max. for the load on the tires as rated and you have excess heat.  Second, how old are the tires.  You cannot assume the tires are a year old.  They might be several years old.  The frame may have been built two or three years ago coupled with tires that may have been manufactured prior to that.  Tires older than 5 years are suspect and need to be replaced, especially if they have been sitting idle for most of that time.

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Ron

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2005, 10:44:10 PM »
Since it appears the tires were overloaded inflation wouldn't come into play much except to expedite the inevitable due to overloaded tires.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Jim Godward

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2005, 11:43:23 PM »
Hey guys,

Remember the hitch weight get into this too!  VBG  If the dry weight is 2800, he should have anywhere from 280 to 420# on the hitch!
Jim
Jim & Pat Godward
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Hillsboro, Oregon

John From Detroit

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2005, 07:06:55 AM »
There are some other things as well that can contribute to a tire blow out on a new-used traioler

You said it had been sitting for at least a year.

Tires are damaged by a number of things,  Ozone in the atmosphere,  Sunlight,  Grease and oil (leaking out of a bearing) Heat, Road hazards and normal or abnormal wear and tear

Now there is not a lot you can do about ozone and ultraviolet light but the tire manafacturers put chemicals in the rubber mix to slow the damage... Normal flexing of the tire as you drive releases those oils (Brings them to the surface) extending the life of the tire.

Excessive Heat is caused by excessive speed, excessive load, low tire pressure and failure to properly pack the bearings (Tires can normally get quite warm, as in DO NOT TOUCH)


What I woudl do is 1: Keep a spare handy and 2: Watch the load on the tires  3: Watch your speed and 4: See how long these last before I make any decisions


Finally, if you can mount them on the trailer. a larger tire will last longer  But see if it was just age of the tire first

Tires are supposed to be replaced at least every six years, five for safety
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

hans4122

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2005, 10:23:56 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback. There's a lot of knowledge out there.  The dealer says they were original equipment so they would be around 3 years old or so. I think the tires sat at least a year without any use. I checked the inflation before leaving for the trip and they were adjusted properly.   I think since the numbers seem to indicate overloading I will likely look into a different tire with a more appropriate load rating.  I think if it happens again, my wife will give up on trailering alltogether.

Ron

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2005, 10:50:10 PM »
Quote
I will likely look into a different tire with a more appropriate load rating.  I think if it happens again, my wife will give up on trailering alltogether.

Sounds like a good plan.  You don't want the boss to get discouraged.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

John From Detroit

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2005, 07:16:35 AM »
  I think if it happens again, my wife will give up on trailering alltogether.

Well.... I do admit I gave up on trailering... But that is 1: Part of the long term plan and 2: Because the next step in the plan (A motor home) is now sitting in the back yard preparing to be made ready for it's next trip (first MAJOR trip)

Don't give up... If you must try a larger tire but don't give up
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Master-Tech

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2006, 03:08:16 AM »
Hello All,
 I agree with everyone here , Hardly no wear looks good ,, Still they are AGED, n Weathered ,, tha sun really can destroy Tires.
1 most common thing is Load Range , tha load off the unit really plays heck on the Side-Wall off the Tire with the 2ND most Tire
Pressure/// Most People look at the Tire n it says 50 or 80 lbs cold ,,, So most think naaa, put about 32/35lbs is enough, WRONG-
That 50 / 80 lbs is the recommended min Pressure for the max load RATING off the tire !!!
 You take a 3 or 4 year old tire, been on tha ground , in the ELEMENT'S ,,, Run it HALF-FLAT with a full Load, Tire gets hot and POW
 U are asking 4 Trouble !!!!
     Good Luck n b Carefull
     Master Tech ;)

Carl L

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2006, 02:28:27 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback. There's a lot of knowledge out there.  The dealer says they were original equipment so they would be around 3 years old or so. I think the tires sat at least a year without any use. I checked the inflation before leaving for the trip and they were adjusted properly.   I think since the numbers seem to indicate overloading I will likely look into a different tire with a more appropriate load rating.  I think if it happens again, my wife will give up on trailering alltogether.

If you are in the market for new tires, there is a another factor you have to take into account -- tire type.   Most folks buy passenger series, P.   Folks with pickups and 4WDs often buy the light truck, LT tires.   Trailers need a third kind, special trailer, ST.

ST tires are not only compounded for trailer low-mileage  long-age use, they are constructed differently for trailer operational considerations.   See the website HERE for a rundown on that matter by a trailer parts dealer. 
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

woodartist

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2006, 03:09:09 PM »
Don't know what environment the tires were in, but the desert sun can destroy tires rather fast. Had the same problem when I bought a trailer and even though the tires looked good, one blew, and then a few hundred miles later the other went. Some damage to the trailer, but recoverable. The new tires have lasted 10, 000 miles...so far:)

IrishBrewer

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2006, 02:51:07 PM »
I just replaced both tires on my recently aquired pop-up.  I don't know how old the tires were that were on it but they had plenty of tread left.  The problem was that the sidewalls were severely cracked so who knows how long they would have lasted on the road.  I think that the damage was due to exposure to sunlight as the spare on the back (which had never been used - still had all of the nubs on it) looked to be in good shape because it was angled such that it did not receive much direct sunlight.  If the tires sit unused and are exposed to sunlight, they will deteriorate.  It is best for them to see at least occasional use so the internal lubrication can work itself to the surface to protect the sidewalls. 

I decided to make some plywood wheel covers that shade the tires when the trailer is parked.  This should make the tires last much longer.

The previous owner told me that when he tows the trailer, he checks the wheels periodically by feeling for excess heat coming off the tires or hubs.  If the tires seem excessively hot, they are probably underinflated.  If the hub is giving off a lot of heat (watch out - don't touch it or you could get burnt), you've got a bearing that's dry or failing.  Sounds like a good tip that could save you from problems on the road.

Ned

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2006, 03:07:14 PM »
Get an infrared thermometer, Radio Shack has some models, and check your tire and hub temperatures whenever you stop.  Determine the normal readings so you'll recognize a high reading that tells you something is wrong.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2006, 03:11:14 PM »
Every tire made since 1980 has a date code stamped on the sidewall - it's at the end of the DOT string of letters and numbers.  See RVForum Glossary under Tire Manufacturing Date for details.

We consider that a tire approaching seven years old is at the end of its life and should be replaced regardless of apparent condition.  Despite conventional wisdom, covering a tire to reduce ultraviolet exposure has not been shown to have any measurable affect on the lifespan of a modern tire, which has plenty of ultraviollet-inhibiting chemicals in it.  However, the tire needs exercise (flexing) to keep the chemicals well distributed throughout the material, so a tire that remains parked for many months at a time may fail even earlier.

Gary
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Ray D

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2006, 03:23:35 PM »
Ned, last time this came up, you made the same recommendation. I thought that was a terrific idea, so thank you for the suggestion, in case I forgot to thank you then.

That said, I went to Radio Shack and they didn't have them. The manager looked in the catalogue, to no avail. (He remembered them.) He called the home office, and was told that they had been discontinued as part of a program to reduce slow inventory. They don't have them, anymore.

He did suggest that he had seen some at an auto parts store, and directed me there. (AutoZone) They had them, several varieties, and the best (with the laser aiming) was on sale at half price. It's a "Raytek MiniTemp." I bought it, and love it. Works great. Thanks, again.

Ray D.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 03:27:14 PM by Ray D »
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

Ned

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2006, 05:20:06 PM »
Sorry to hear that RS has dropped the product.  I'll remember that and direct people to the auto supply stores.  Glad that you found one anyway.

You don't really need the laser aiming, but it won't hurt, and can make it easier to see what you're measuring on an inside dual.  My simple thermometer give consistent readings by just pointing at the sidewall from less than a foot away.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

John From Detroit

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2006, 07:31:19 PM »
I believe Harbor Freight now has infra red thermoters.

I was in a radio shack the other day.. A couple of other customers were heard to say "It's becomming Cell Phone Shack".

I recall a long list of excelent products that are no longer in evidence at all upon their shelves.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Tom

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 07:36:31 PM »
I believe Harbor Freight now has infra red thermoters.

They sure do John. I saw them there last week, but IIRC they seemed a little pricey.
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IrishBrewer

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2006, 08:23:14 AM »
Gary,

Are you saying that the cracking is not a good indicator of tire condition?  I'm not sure how old the tires were on my popup because I bought it used.  Based on the fact that the shaded spare was not cracked and the exposed tires in use were heavily cracked, I assumed that a cover would provide some measure of protection.  I know that this does nothing to protect it from exposure to ozone but it looks like the exposure to sunlight was the primary factor in the premature cracking.

I also sprayed all the tires with some protectant (not just tire shine).  Does anyone have any good reccomendations for what type of protectant works the best to help with tire longevity?

Jim Dick

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2006, 08:45:41 AM »
Irishbrewer,

I have used 303 protectant on some rubber parts which used to fail yearly. Haven't had a failure in about 4 years now. It should be fine for tires as well.

I have heard that putting covers over the tires is not good. They don't get any air circulation. The best way to protect them is hang the cover from the wheel well. Four snaps around the lip should do it. This will allow air to circulate and the tire can breathe.
Jim

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Ray D

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2006, 09:17:01 AM »
Tom: (and all)) I hadn't known about the product, when I read about it here. So, I had no idea as to a reasonable price. AutoZone had quite a few models, ten or less. Prices ran from $40.00 to $180.00. As I said, I bought the top model on sale for $90.00. They had the same model without the laser aimer, but not on sale. I would have had to pay considerably more for the same model without the laser. (Duh!)

Don't know if it was worth it or not, from a level headed perspective. But, I like it and have played with it just for the heck of it. Aim it anywhere, and you get the temperature, there. Just walk along and take the temperature of whatever you are close to - the water in that stream - the lid on that garbage can in the sun - the ground in the shade vs in the sun - the dog's fur...... I'll bet you could get into trouble with that, if you let your imagination go too far. Think I'll stop there.

Ray D
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

Tom

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2006, 10:23:04 AM »
Ray,

I use mine at every stop for a quick check. Takes a minute or so to walk around the coach and the toad, aiming the IR thermometer at each tire. I started doing is before I bought the PressurePro tire pressure monitoring system and I continue to do it although it's probably not necessary any more.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tire Failure On Pop Up
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2006, 03:33:50 PM »
Quote
Are you saying that the cracking is not a good indicator of tire condition?

Yes, that's what I am saying. Lack of cracks does not mean "good" and the presence of surface cracks does not necesarily mean "bad", though it is certainly good reason for a closer inspection.

I explained about tire dates codes because the "bought it used" situation is quite common. Tire dates codes allow you to establish the actual date of tire manufacture for each tire, which is more relevent than the date the tire was purchased anyway. A tire which sits in the manufacturer's warehouse for 7 years is a "dead" tire, even though it was never sold, never used and probably never saw the light of day.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

 

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