PDI converter/charger and Trick L Start

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IslandGuy

IslandGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Posts
468
Location
Saddlebrooke, AZ
Is anyone using a PDI converter/charge with the charge wizard successfully with a Trick L Start? I was told that they do not play well together...the Trick L start keeps the PDI from ever going into mtc mode...?
Thanks,
Jim
 
I haven't heard that but suppose it is possible if the chassis battery is a bit weak and the Trick-L-Start is continuously drawing power from the house batteries. But with a decent chassis battery, I would not expect it to be a problem.  I used a Xantrex Echo Charger for awhile (same principle) and had no problems with my 3-stage charging system getting into float mode.

Winnebago is using TrickLStart in their coaches now. Don't have PD converters, as far as I know, but many of them have 3 stage inverter/chargers and that's essentially the same as PD+Wizard.
 
Interesting .... I just replaced the Parallax 6300 with the upgrade kit from Best Converter and noticed it's staying right around 13.6v ... normal mode, hasn't gone to float mode that I'm aware of.  And I also have the Trick-L-Start installed.  This is on a 99 Coachmen Mirada.

By the way the conversion was pretty straight forward armed with the detailed instructions on the Best Converter website. 
http://www.bestconverter.com/45-Amp-Converter-Replacement-Kit_p_46.html

Howard
 
Howard, will be curious to see if your PDI goes into mtc mode at some point. I read in a few places now that the Trick L Start held the charger in a "normal" mode. I guess 13.6 volts is not too hot for a wet cell battery but would like to see it go to mtc mode at 13.2v

Jim
 
13.6V is not out of range for the float voltage for flooded cell batteries.  13.2V is normal for AGM batteries and is too low for flooded cells, unless the temperature is quite high.  The acceptance voltage for flooded cells is about 14.4V.

This is according to the Heart Interface documentation, PD units may be different.
 
IslandGuy said:
Howard, will be curious to see if your PDI goes into mtc mode at some point. .........  but would like to see it go to mtc mode at 13.2v
Click to expand...

Jim,

Don't know how much difference it makes, but note my conversion kit is a WF8945REP, a conversion kit from Best Converter for the Magnetek 6300 ... not a PDI.  I'd have to pull it out again to get anymore info I think, nothing uner the cover visible.

But yes,  I am curious too.

Howard

Edit: Fix quote
 
Ned said:
13.6V is not out of range for the float voltage for flooded cell batteries. ......... The acceptance voltage for flooded cells is about 14.4V.

This is according to the Heart Interface documentation, PD units may be different.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ned ... good to know ...this unit is a replacement for the Magnatek  6300, a WF8945REP, not a  PDI.  Iit does state on the website that 13.6 is normal, 13.2 float ... so we'll see.

As soon as I got it installed I was on the road  and have now been plugged in to shore power for a couple of days so haven't really had a chance to monitor it after batteries were used for any period of time.  Maybe I will unplug and run on batteries for a while to see how it reacts.

thanks again,

Howard
PS - Keep in mind this is in our old 99 Coachmen Mirada, not our current Southwind.
 
Just a clarification.  Winnebago installs Trik-L-Start units in all their Diesel Chassis only, and all the diesel units have inverters and not convertors.  No Trik-L-Starts are installed in units with Converters.  Wonder what the reasoning is behind this......
 
Howard, I wouldn't call that unit a true 3 stage charger if it only uses 13.6V in the absorption stage.  It will take a long time to charge up the batteries at that low a voltage, if ever.  You need an ammeter to see how much of a charge it's really putting into the batteries at that voltage.
 
Howard,
Looks like the same specs as the PDI 4645 I have sitting on my shelf. Only difference is the PDI has a "desulfation" mode. 14.4 volts that gets activated every 21 hrs for 15 minutes.
Ned,
Seems like different manufacturers have difference of opinions on how much voltage each stage should be set at :)
My solar controller (Heliotrope from AM Solar) is set at 13.5 volts for float and 14.7 for bulk.

Jim
 
Ned said:
Howard, I wouldn't call that unit a true 3 stage charger if it only uses 13.6V in the absorption stage.  It will take a long time to charge up the batteries at that low a voltage, if ever.  You need an ammeter to see how much of a charge it's really putting into the batteries at that voltage.
Click to expand...

Ned,
Looks like 14.4 vdc for Bulk, 13.6 vdc for absorption and 13.2 vdc for float.

Jim
 
FrontrangeRVer said:
Just a clarification.  Winnebago installs Trik-L-Start units in all their Diesel Chassis only, and all the diesel units have inverters and not convertors.  No Trik-L-Starts are installed in units with Converters.  Wonder what the reasoning is behind this......
Click to expand...

Spoke to mtc tech at PDI. He is going to have an engineer respond to my question concerning the use of a Trick L Start and PDI converter/charger.

Jim
 
IslandGuy said:
Looks like 14.4 vdc for Bulk, 13.6 vdc for absorption and 13.2 vdc for float.
Click to expand...

A good 3 stage charger puts out a maximum, constant current in bulk mode until the voltage rises to a specified value (like 14.4V), then switches to a fixed voltage (14.4V) until the current drops to a small value, then switches to the float voltage (13.5V for flooded cells).  It's not just different voltages, but more complex using current measurement too.

Again, this is from the Heart Interface documentation but it's typical of a good 3 stage charger.
 
IslandGuy said:
Spoke to mtc tech at PDI. He is going to have an engineer respond to my question concerning the use of a Trick L Start and PDI converter/charger.

Jim
Click to expand...

Good....please report back his answer.
 
IslandGuy said:
Spoke to mtc tech at PDI. He is going to have an engineer respond to my question concerning the use of a Trick L Start and PDI converter/charger.

Jim
Click to expand...

I received an email from PDI this morning:

"There should be no problem using a Trick L Start with a PD converter. The
only issue you might have is the Trick L Start may cause the converter to
stay in the boost mode for a longer period of time, it may also take a
longer time to go into storage mode due to the extra load from the starting
battery.  If the starting battery is going bad it may prevent the converter
from switching modes.
We have not tested this device to see how it affects our converters."

Dave Needham
Engineering
Progressive Dynamics, Inc.
 
The Trick-L-Start is just another load on the house system. There are several others in a typical coach, e.g. detector devices, controller circuit boards, etc.) and the combined load may indeed keep the charger (regardless of the brand or type)  at a more aggressive charging stage for  a somewhat longer time. That's not an issue, since some of the charging current is being siphoned off to the load and is not causing the battery to be overcharged.
 
Gary,
My main concern was the Trick-L-Start would keep the converter high and cause the house batteries to "cook" thus defeating the purpose of a good 3-stage charger.
Jim
 
As I said, the excess current, if any, is being sucked off by the TrikLStart.  If it is not sucking much current, there is no concern anyway.  Just make sure your chassis batteries are in decent shape (and you want to do that regardless).

I understand the concern but don't over-analyze the situation. It will be fine.  :)
 
I'm the same way. Doesn't hurt as long as you can remind yourself to stop digging for problems after considering what could go wrong. Otherwise it is "paralysis by analysis". But that's better than "fools rush in", I think.
 
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