Is my RV a lemon? Bounder 38p

OK, so 11 months ago my fiance & I purchased a Bounder 38p from Tom Raper in Cincy.  They had the RV for over a month after we purchased it to fix a list of issues we found and wanted fixed prior to our trip out west last year.  Most of the issues they didn't fix, claimed it couldn't be fixed or just did a crappy job working on it.  So After our trip we took it back to Tom Raper & same deal.... crappy job.  So then the last week of Sept we took it to the Richmond Tom Raper (they have a paint/body shop, coach needed paintwork) & it wasn't completed until 1-2 months ago.  They called us & stated it was ready to go & upon inspection same story, most issues were not touched & what they did was half a$$ed.  We didn't take the coach with us since some of the items needed fixed before we took the kids on spring break & again.... upon picking it up they tried pulling stuff over our head & did a crappy job.

We were dealing with the manager of the serv. dept & went above him to the director of operations.  Of coarse the director of operation will not return call or anything..... so we contact fleetwood's customer service department who does return calls/emails......... The people at Raper are to bust to talk to use but they will talk to Fleetwood..... dam it is frustrating.

Some of the issues are minor & I feel others are not so minor .... poor job installing walpaper, wood trim etc while other issues include no screen in one of the windows, leather wearing off couch & drivers seat (RV has 6K miles), rust around many of the storage compartment doors, sealant leaking out 1 window, trim coming off outside of coach, loud resonating noise when above 55mph, loud air noise from passenger front window, laminant floor under washer/dryer coming up & the list goes on for a long time.........

We are 11 months into owning this RV with the mfg warrante from fleetwood about to expire the end of this month. Any ideas on what we should do?  Someone mentioned to me about claiming it under Indiana's Lemon Law but not sure how that would work since we actually purchased it in Ohio. 

Should I contact a attorned to see what they think should be done? 

Is there factory service still available for Bounders?  If there is, that would be my first choice.

When Fleetwood offered factory service for American Coach, we always drove the extra distance to Indiana where we found the work was done correctly along with upgrades.

Fleetwood wants T. Raper to have the first option for fixinf the RV but due to what they have attempted to pull over us I do not see how they will make it right. 

Juar found out tomorrow we are suppose to hear from the director of operations (I think Ed Unger is his name) & possibly have a 3way call with fleetwood's customer serv as well. 

Our J sofa/couch has a sliding drawer under it which wouldn't open w/o serious effort.  So T. Rapers fix was to stick a few pieces of plywood under the support leg on one side which is totally fine with me.  Hoewever when you walk in the coach & look at the J-sofa you see 2-3 layers of plywood blocks just laying there....... is it that hard to just put it under the carpet?

The U shaped dinette the leather was wearing off horribly so they had new leather brought in for the left cushion.  Upon inspection (had the RV for 6months) there was a 2-3in slit where they cut the leather wrong so you could see inside the cushion.  We told them it wasn't acceptable so a few weeks later they "fixed it" by pulling the leather tighter which made that cusion sit lower then all the other cushions and also look completely different.  We also realized that instead of doing the pinstripe for a left cushion they matched the right side cusion thus when sitting on the seat they recovered the pinstripe was at your back along the wall & under the leg where it should be there was nothing. 

Hopefully get more info tomorrow...... & I think I am going to contact a attorney just to see what they have to say

You can get factory service in Decatur, IN at the Fleetwood Customer Service Center near the plant. Either warranty or customer pay. If the Bounder is under warranty, discuss this with the Fleetwood rep in your call.


[Steve - it's the same place you knew as American Coach service - all brands are done in one place now.]

Thanks for the update, Gary!

Then that would do it for me, if I were in your situation, 2KViggen.  IMO it's pointless and a waste of time to rey dealing with a dealer that provides unskilled and inattentive service to your coach.  In the long run, they are liable to cause more damage than you realy want to endure, and your coach will be tied up for for longer than it needs to be.

If you are anywhere in the Eastern U.S. then call Fleetwood factory service, make the apointment and have the people who built your coach fix it with the materials and skills that were intended to go into it.  They may even perform some upgrades that may not have been incorporated at the time of manufacture, if they follow the same policies they did when we went there for factory service.

I am a strong believer in factory service, never allowing a dealer to touch any of my coaches once I drove them off the lot.  That way I knwe repairs were done according to factory specs.  Believe me, you will enjoy your coach a whole lot more, without becoming involved with litigation.

I guess I'm missing something.

The problems as I understand it, occurred when it was built at the factory. So one is supposed to go back to the factory, to the same folks who messed it up when they built it in the first place, so these folks can correct their error's?

With regard to the shoddy workand lengthy downtime, I'd be looking for another dealer to do warranty repairs.

Or perhaps Fleetwood could step up it's quality control. Silly me, what was I thinking.

Can a dealer be declared a "lemon"?  If so, sounds like you got one. :-\

if I would of only known that Raper means they rape whoever buys one from them......

From the way it looks fleetwood prefers us to deal with the dealership and only call them when they do not fix stuff properly.  Since they have probably already been paid for the work, or at least some of the work they want us to deal with them.  Some of the issues I beleive are quality controll issues at fleetwood......

9:30AM on friday we meet the director of operations & the service manager who has been screwing stuff up at tom raper.  Not holding my breath on how this is going to go.......

Fleetwood pays a predetermined rate for warranty work regardless of who performs it. They really don't care where the work is done. Choose another dealer for your warranty work or go back to the factory.

For what it's worth, the Fleetwood factory service center techs do not work the assembly line - they just fix Fleetwood RVs every day.

This is a email my fiance sent to fleetwood today to the customer serv rep we are working with


-----
Bryan-


The more I think about taking the rv to Tom Raper for them to try and
fix the issues, the more I am worried.  The past 11 months that they
have been doing things to it, something is always wrong with the way
they do it or they don't fix it at all.  I would prefer to bring it to
you at the factory and have your techs who only work on Fleetwood fix
the problems.  Plus I really only have a month to get everything
complete before we need it for a long trip.  I know we've gone through
this process with Ed but I would feel tons better if we set something up
with you guys in Decauter.  It is only a 2 hour drive for us, not bad
at all.  I know this is not your usual chain but I would feel much
safer.  I don't trust Tom Raper.

Let me know,

------

And his response

-----


Tina,



As I said before, I do understand your concerns.  We have only started
the process with Ed.  Let's get the meeting with Ed and his service
staff completed on Friday and let them start on the repairs.  They need
to be fully aware of the items that need repair.  If you are not
satisfied with their previous repairs, they need to see and correct them
as well.  I do not want to change the direction that is set up this
point without their input or knowledge. 



Our schedule is a bit full at this point but we can look at that later.
If Tom Raper refuses to repair and have seen any repairs that are not to
your satisfaction and want us to repair and bill them accordingly we can
do that.  Let's get their response first.  If you or Ed need to call me
on Friday during that meeting to discuss then just call me. 



Bryan

------

So it looks like we are stuck with T. Raper.......

Tina, I wish you the best of luck with T Raper or whomever works on your coach.  I know it must be frustrating when even "simple things" can not be done correctly, but always "the cheapest/quickest" way.  Thank you for the heads up on T. Raper service quality.  That gives me an idea....we on this RV forum need a list akin to "Angie's List" which is advertised on TV and has feedback on home remodeling contractors.  One central location/site for feedback on RV dealers and service departments with inputs on both good and bad experiences.

we on this RV forum need a list akin to "Angie's List" which is advertised on TV and has feedback on home remodeling contractors.

Click to expand...

Do you mean like this board?

spent a few hours at tom raper today.... with the director of operations & someone else high up at the store.... forget what her title is.  The service manager was off today so we didn't get to give him any of our mind..........

We spent 1-2hrs going over everything & found out (supposidley) the service manager had mechanics working on the coach & not people who specialize in the issues we had which are more quality controll stuff.  So the introduced us to a person who they state will do all the work & we went over the list..... they actually pointed out a few other issues with the interior that need to be adressed now which it's under warrante.  Like the carpet is stretched a bit where the slides meet and also some of the crown molding looks crappy.  So we will see.... we are going to let them deal with it along with fleetwood corporate due to some of the issue which are above fleetwood head.  Like rust around several of the storage compartments which raper simply sprayed with spraypaint so it's still bubbling up & will look horrible in a few years.  We are going t give them 2 weeks to get stuff done and will go back and check on it.  It they are still slacking we will take it from them and head up to Fleetwood which we should of done in the first place.  I figure if raper and fleetwood both fail on some of the issues I will continue to go the lawyer route.... which I really do not want to do.

I mentioned the both the director of operations and the girl (still forget her title) about the inverter which when we looked at the coach we asked the sales person and he said yes, it has one but I never checked it when we did our testdrive (I was driving).  Upon purchase we realized that crap..... it doesn't have one so the kids can't watch TV or do games back there on the road.  We mentioned this to raper back when we purchased it & they threw some cheap little radio shack inverter in there which must be switched on anytime you use the TV & it's a total PITA to acess.  They were quite upset about that story and wanted the sales guys name who I forgot but I described him...... they are suppose to work something out.  Also the RV was suppose to have seatbelts on the U shaped dinette which the sales guy said it did..... then after our purchase (brochures state/show belts) we realize it didn't & raper can't install them for liability reasons which I do understand.  So that's something else fleetwood will have to deal with.......

Hope that Raper does a better job for you this time around. What is it the stock market people always say? "Past performance does not guarantee future results"?  Let's hope so, in this case.

You are still within warranty even if you go over 12 months. There should be language in the contract about the repairs done under warranty carrying its own warranty. In addition you have written communication to the manufacturer about these issues (I would make sure to send Fleetwood an email detailing all issues found) within the warranty period. The 12 month is not to get things fixed it is to provide an opportunity for the manufacturer to fix it. If they take 12 months to fix it then that is their problem and doesn't void any warranty obligations.

As an example I just had some shower issues fixed at our house that are under warranty. It was pointed out to the builder 2 years ago!!! and htey have tried to fix it 5 different times. At no point has anyone even tried to claim that it is now out of warranty (which if they had they would have gotten treated to a little Contracts 101 from me - since that is what I do for a living).

I would also in that list to fleetwood state something like - not only is this not the beginning of a fix, but it has been ongoing for 11 months. I will have the dealer attempt at fixing all these issues, but if they fail then I feel that we have provided them ample opportunity and time and will expect Fleetwood to correct the issues. Bascially try to get them to answer saying they will -- that will put pressure on the dealer (that could have to pay back money to Fleetwood) and you will have some more leverage afterwards if the dealer fails to assist.

Good luck

I think I would not onl email, but send a certified letter to Fleetwood. Sounds as this Raper dealership is one to avoid. Spray painting over rust- give me a break

The rep we have been talking to at fleetwood does state that everything that is in the service reports from raper will be fixed 1 way or another.  We have been sending him every email we have sent or received from raper over the past year & he claims to have the list of all past-attempted service records from raper.

The spray paint is quite comical since that rust was bubbling out weeks after they attempted to fix it.  More then likely it looks like those panels might be a issue that fleetwood itself will need to fix but who knows.  It does seem like other manufacturers have similar issues in these areas.

We still have zero confidence in what tom raper can do.  The way we were treated from day 1 & then every trip to their shop is quite pathetic.  Next week we will probably stop by their shop to see what they screwed up this time.......... 

PUSHHHHHHHHHHHHH  to take it back to the factory.  I have taken mine back and have been very happy.  Just took it again last
month for damages and they did a GREAT JOB!  Document everything wit hpics ect. and the NO response from the dealer and send it to the Fleetwood Rep.

Happy Rving!

I have an 08 Excursion and experiencing the same bubbling/rusting on the compartments. I had no real response from my dealer either so I'm about to start my battle with Fleetwood - can you let me know how you are making out and what the resolution was for the paint.  You can PM me at [email protected]  Thanks!

As far as taking it back to the Fleetwood Warranty Shop at the factory...make sure you take a complete list of each item and when they say it is fixed, then check it out carefully and completely.  I purchased a 2010 Fleetwood Bounder 35E...I live in Texas and the Fleetwood Service Centers in San Antonio (Ancira RV) basically blew me off because I had not purchased the motorhome from them (bought mine at Lazydays).  With all the issues I had, it seemed best to take it back to the factory...I provided a detailed list with pictures of each item...I drove from San Antonio to the factory site...very impressive to see the repair shop and the people were nice...BUT there had been NO QUALITY CONTROL AT ALL on my RV.  I paid for my flights back home and on the return to pick it up (of course I had to take leave from work to accomplish this effort).  I had very little time to review their work and inspect the RV.  When I got home I found the biggest issue (my holding tank blowing back in the toliet) had not been fixed.  Finally found a RV Repair shop, not officially sanctioned by Fleetwood, to perform my warranty work...as the technician began working on my unit he continued to find all kinds of manufacturing failures which would have been caught by the smallest effort of quality control...turns out the vent tube for the black water tank had been pushed almost 16 inches into the holding tank...did not take much to reach it creating back pressure and limiting the holding capacity; also found, my washer/dryer vent was flowing into the RV instead of being vented outside; the hot water tank AC wires were put together which almost caught the vehicle on fire from an electrical short...when I went back to Fleetwood and mentioned the significant lack of quality control...the WARRANTY SERVICE MANAGER JUST LAUGHED and stated times were difficult in the plant during the 2010 model manufacturing...they would be happy to look at it again if I would take off...drive back to the warranty shop and let them look at it again!!  I finally saw an ad from Fleetwood stating how great their manufacturing quality ensured you getting a great motorhome...I fired off an email directly to that Senior Vice President who made the statement...does it surprise you that I have never heard from them!  It would be interesting to hear what eventually happened in your case...contact me at [email protected] luck.