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Author Topic: New project in the works - adding roof air  (Read 41357 times)

John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2010, 07:39:42 AM »
A couple of more questions:

Sure

Did you consider using the block heater circuit for connecting the unit?

Not really since the block heater appearance in the OnePlace area is the switch for the outlet in the electric bay.  You would still need to find a common and ground.  Edit: that might work - I think the hot and common/ground are there

If so, why did you choose to run a new circuit to the breaker panel?

I like having the AC on its own dedicated breaker

Did you consider installing some form of breakout so in the event you were at a 30-amp site, you could connect the roof unit to a separate 20-amp plug?

Way too complicated for the benefit gained for me

How did you get power to it on the roof?

From the bed area to under the sink, under the shower, up the OnePlace column.  Then I drilled a 2" hole in the ceiling into the AC duct.  From the 14" x 14" roof opening I poked a hole in the Styrofoam roof insulation and the hole intersected with the 2" ceiling hole previously mentioned

I'll have the entire process documented on my web site when I get a chance to write it up.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 07:42:51 AM by John Canfield »
--John
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SargeW

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2010, 08:49:23 AM »
Outstanding John! I will look you up at the rally and you can show it off!
Marty--
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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2010, 12:19:38 PM »
Marty - I will be planning an rvforum meet 'n greet at the GNR.  If there are enough of us, I'll arrange to use a seminar tent, otherwise we can gather at our coach.  Unfortunately, we will be on 30 amp power at the GNR  ::) so we can't demonstrate our rolling fridge!
--John
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SargeW

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2010, 07:21:48 PM »
Too bad, I was going to have a side of beef delivered to try it out ;D ;D
Marty--
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itchn2go

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2010, 08:57:13 AM »
John, seems as if you have things well under control as usual. After you do yours and find all the problems, think I'll drive down and you can do mine...With all the equipment ,you needs a sign, Canfield's Collection. Bet the DW loves all that stuff sitting around...Jim
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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2010, 06:03:07 PM »
Yea!  Project is documented and on our web site.
--John
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Duner

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2010, 08:07:45 PM »
Nice job John!!!  I was wondering with full a/c cooling on your 50 amp service, do you have any current limitations where the Powerline might shed loads..... like the electric water heater?   Are you satisfied with the front to back location as far as cooling distribution?

Speaking of the effects of heat load in the sun....
It's been 91 deg the past 2 days but I'm parked in my sisters RV garage.  So with no sun hitting my coach, it will cool down from 80 down to 72 in about 30-45 minutes.  My 6.5 yr old basement air is working like a champ (after I changed the blower bearings and installed the new plastic squirrel cage 2 yrs ago).  I gets a lot of use since we use the heat pump a lot because I'm usually in mild climates in the winter time.   And that's with 3 yrs of fulltime living in my rv. 

Enjoy the GNR..... I'll be missing it again.

Bill

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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2010, 08:54:06 PM »
Hi Bill!

EMS shedding loads on 50 amp service?  Hmmm - not sure if it can do that.  I was wondering on what leg of the 50 amp service I should add the new circuit breaker - I just added it to the next open slot.

The air distribution is very satisfactory in the salon and cab area.  Due to the pocket door trim just aft of the ceiling assembly, most of the air is blocked that could otherwise go aft.  This has been a high-payoff project and I'm thrilled at having more cooling available.

We would do well in complete shade but that's not going to work for the dishes  :D
--John
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2dalake

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2010, 10:30:18 AM »
Nice job and great write-up John.

When did you get the Corgi? 
2007 Country Coach Allure 470 Siskiyou Summit, 2012 CRV Toad; 2014 F150 Toad; Air Force One toad brake.

John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2010, 11:15:10 AM »
Thanks Gary!

We acquired Sassy about a year ago from the breeder.  She's seven years old and was the breeder's first Corgi champion, and is the sister to Jane's brother's Corgi.  Sassy never produced large litters, so she was a candidate for placement - I've wanted a dog for some time, so it worked out quite well.  She's a great dog with great manners and personality (and she travels well.)
--John
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mrschwarz

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2010, 05:21:06 AM »
Do you have an Autostart connected to your generator? If so, have you tested it with the 3rd AC?

On another note, until I read this article, I hadn't really thought about running the basement AC 2while driving. On my unit, input air gets drawn in the side and exhausted on the bottom. Is there really a lot of dirt that can get in there while driving? Do you think the new unit will keep you cool without the basement air during our nice, mild Texas summers :)?

As I have told you before, this along with a windshield cover and awnings is my next project, too. My plan is to use the block heater circuit in the one-place and rearrange the breaker panel so it's on the opposite leg from the primary circuit of the basement air. Like yours, my biggest challenge is going to get the box on the roof.

My office facility is a distribution center of the company I work for. They have lots of lift equipment, provided I decide to work on installing the unit in the parking lot at work and can talk some people into helping me. I'm currently about half way through a 3 week computer implementation in Toronto, so I have had plenty of time to follow your installation and plan mine. When I get home, I will confirm that there aren't any issues with items installed on the roof and will probably get busy.

For the 2" hole for the wire behind the One-Place, did you use a standard hole saw?

What did you do to prevent the the pilot drill so it wouldn't go through the roof?

Did you use the blue tubing for the Romex in the roof or just at the opening for the AC?

How did you seal the 2" hole after you ran the wire?

Did you use the same technique for the fantastic vent wires to get them to the duct (using the electrical fish)?

After your shopping for the AC unit, do you have any suggestions for vendors, due to your unhappiness with PPL?

This was a great write that answered a whole lot of my questions. As you can see, I like to ask them! :)
Michael

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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2010, 07:59:21 AM »
Do you have an Autostart connected to your generator? If so, have you tested it with the 3rd AC?

Yes and I haven't tested it as yet with the genny.  I am curious what the new AC draws, so I need to fire up the gen set and run the new AC


On another note, until I read this article, I hadn't really thought about running the basement AC 2while driving. On my unit, input air gets drawn in the side and exhausted on the bottom. Is there really a lot of dirt that can get in there while driving? Do you think the new unit will keep you cool without the basement air during our nice, mild Texas summers :)?

Yes, there is a bit of road dust that gets sucked into the basement condenser, also notice what happens when you drive in a campground with freshly cut grass.

It will be interesting to see if the roof unit will be adequate for hot days while on the road - I'll post follow up experiences 


For the 2" hole for the wire behind the One-Place, did you use a standard hole saw?

I used a cheapie hole saw with an adjustable pilot bit.  The pilot bit won't retract very much with my good bi-metal saws (they will extend way out, but not retract enough)


What did you do to prevent the the pilot drill so it wouldn't go through the roof?

The hole is drilled into the existing AC duct run, so you're essentially drilling only the covered luan ceiling panel.  I used a hole saw with a pilot bit that only extended a little past the saw since I wasn't sure what I was getting into


Did you use the blue tubing for the Romex in the roof or just at the opening for the AC?

I didn't see any need for conduit for the run in the ceiling - it is immobilized by the Styrofoam


How did you seal the 2" hole after you ran the wire?

I can tell you what doesn't work - duct tape  ;D.  I need to screw a 1/8" thick patch over the hole with foam to seal the hole


Did you use the same technique for the fantastic vent wires to get them to the duct (using the electrical fish)?

Basically - I poked a hole into the left AC duct run and fed the new cable.  Hooked it with my fish and pulled it forward to the next duct opening


After your shopping for the AC unit, do you have any suggestions for vendors, due to your unhappiness with PPL?

There was an outfit in California I was considering, don't remember the name of the business


This was a great write that answered a whole lot of my questions. As you can see, I like to ask them!

Thanks!  Glad to help others spend money  8)

Edit:  minor clarification
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 08:57:24 PM by John Canfield »
--John
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mrschwarz

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2010, 05:29:24 AM »
Good to help keep the economy going!
Michael

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2010, 05:15:36 PM »
We were on the road from about 8:30 am to about 4 pm today in reasonably hot weather (85 degrees at 10:30 am, 93 on the road early afternoon) and I started the gen set about 11 am and turned on the new roof air.  We stopped for fuel about 3 pm and it was pretty warm in the aft cabin (the bedroom) due to the engine heat, but pleasant in the main salon and cockpit area.

I decided our roof air by itself was not quite going to cut it in very hot weather as the only house AC running - we were very comfortable in the cockpit area, but the bedroom area was going to be a little too warm when we stopped for the night to my liking.  I started up the basement air and left the roof air on high - wow.  Didn't take long to get the entire interior comfy.

According to the ammeter (while on gen set), the Polar-Mach is drawing about 15 amps.  With roof air and the basement air running (on high blower), we are pulling about 44 amps total, so we are good for our 7.5 Kw genny.
--John
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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2010, 12:35:58 AM »
John,
I noticed that you went with a unit that is 13500 instead of a 15,000.  Why?  Thanks, Joe  Great write-up!
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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2010, 08:30:38 AM »
Just trying to save a couple of amps and the 13.5k model was almost $150 cheaper.
--John
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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2010, 12:52:39 AM »
John,
Have you posted a step by step procedure for installing the roof air so that it can be run along with the basement air?  I had an appointment at Camping World for an estimate today.  The one tech available said that he couldn't figure out a decent way to run the electrical wires from the circuit board to the AC unit.  I was told to come back on Monday to have a different tech look at the situation.  I am unable to do this work myself and so far it is not sounding as though CW will want the job.  Joe


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mrschwarz

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2010, 05:37:12 AM »
John,
Have you posted a step by step procedure for installing the roof air so that it can be run along with the basement air?  I had an appointment at Camping World for an estimate today.  The one tech available said that he couldn't figure out a decent way to run the electrical wires from the circuit board to the AC unit.  I was told to come back on Monday to have a different tech look at the situation.  I am unable to do this work myself and so far it is not sounding as though CW will want the job.  Joe


2008 Itasca Latitude 39W

Look in an earlier post. John has a step by step procedure on how to do it. You have enough current in the block heater switch in your One-Place. If you go into the duct above it, you should be able to get power to the AC unit. If you read the entire post, there is a lot of information on how he did it and the reasons he did things.
Michael

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2010, 08:26:34 AM »
Have you posted a step by step procedure for installing the roof air so that it can be run along with the basement air?

Yup - here's the link.
--John
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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2010, 08:45:34 AM »
John,
Now that you have done it, do you think that there is an alternate place to pick up the electrical for the AC?  Could there be 120 in the OnePlace Panel?  Or how about coming up from the engine heater line in the power cabinet?  The two would never be used together.  I'm wondering if Camping World would be more apt to do the job if I could suggest  another place to get the 120.  I told them that I would bring your plan with me on my next visit, but I doubt if they will want to get involved if the job is too complicated.  That is the feeling that I am getting.  I am scheduled to go back on Monday.  Thanks, Joe
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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2010, 08:58:00 AM »
There is a 20 amp circuit (required for the AC unit) in the OnePlace center that runs to the engine block heater outlet that could probably be used, but I did not thoroughly investigate using that source.

Any chance of finding a good local RV service shop instead of CW?  The thought of CW attempting something like that on my coach is a little terrifying to me.
--John
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Harry B

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2010, 02:57:55 PM »

Now that you have done it, do you think that there is an alternate place to pick up the electrical for the AC?  Could there be 120 in the OnePlace Panel?  Or how about coming up from the engine heater line in the power cabinet?   Thanks, Joe

The OnePlace panel does provide 120VAC for the block heater but on my coach to my surprise, it is wired through the converter. It is on the same circuit as the TV's (front and rear) and the nightstand outlets. So I took that circuit off the inverter which was easy to do since those circuits come together at a junction box under the bed. So make sure to check if this is also the case with your coach. You don't want the inverter in your A/C electrical circuit.
Harry - (Central FL)

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mrschwarz

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #82 on: July 16, 2010, 05:44:06 AM »
The OnePlace panel does provide 120VAC for the block heater but on my coach to my surprise, it is wired through the converter. It is on the same circuit as the TV's (front and rear) and the nightstand outlets. So I took that circuit off the inverter which was easy to do since those circuits come together at a junction box under the bed. So make sure to check if this is also the case with your coach. You don't want the inverter in your A/C electrical circuit.

That's king of scary. I'll have to check that on mine, too.
Michael

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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2010, 02:12:59 PM »
The OnePlace panel does provide 120VAC for the block heater but on my coach to my surprise, it is wired through the converter. It is on the same circuit as the TV's (front and rear) and the nightstand outlets. So I took that circuit off the inverter which was easy to do since those circuits come together at a junction box under the bed. So make sure to check if this is also the case with your coach. You don't want the inverter in your A/C electrical circuit.

How did you "take the circuit off of the converter line" and still have it hot.  Did you remove it and then connect it to something else on the junction box, if so where?  I am not a knowledgeable person when it comes to electric or a lot of other things.  Were the wires labled?  I have never had the platform opened under the bed because the manual says there is no storage on the 39W.  Give me the procedure as in "AC for Dummies." please.   Joe
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Harry B

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2010, 05:13:00 PM »
I disconnected the part of the circuit at the junction box (under the bed) that runs to the OnePlace for the engine block heater switch and the from there to the outlet in the electrical service bay. I added an 15 amp breaker and gave it it's own breaker that did no longer run via the 2000w Inverter.

The real reason I was in there was that I wanted to separate the power circuit to the front and rear TVs in order to add a separate 400W full sine wave inverter that  now powers just my TVs, satellite dish and DVD recorder, etc.

So I separated out both the TV circuit and engine block heater and gave each it's own 15A breaker without going through the 2000w inverter. Again this could all be done at the junction box under the bed, so it is an easy change to make.
Harry - (Central FL)

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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2010, 10:14:42 PM »
Are those wires labled so that I will know what I am looking for? 
I happened to find this online.  Is it NOT complete?  Thanks for your help, Joe
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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2010, 10:40:11 PM »
Installing a roof mounted air conditioning unit to a camper
1.   Step 1
Remove the old vent hardware. A Phillips head screwdriver can be used to remove the four screws in the bottom of the vent. This will drop the screen and allow the sliding vent door to be loosened. On the top of the RV's roof, unbolt the vent's dozen or so bolts around the outside lip of the vent. There might be roofing spackle that has hardened, preventing the bolts from being accessible. Scrape this off with a knife, then remove the bolts to free the vent. Wipe the area with cleaner.
2.   Step 2
Raise the A/C unit to the roof, and install it into the hole. The surfaces around the top of the vent hole should be lined with foam sealer before letting the unit settle into place. Once the A/C is in, it should be braced with the provided bracket to the bottom of the vent hole.
3.   Step 3
Splice the wiring to the A/C control panel plug. The panel is separate from the unit and has a small adapter plug with three wires coming from it. The wires--black, green and white--should be cut and spliced to the wires in the roof, then covered with a liberal amount of electrical tape.
4.   Step 4
Mount the A/C control panel to the bottom of the vent opening. The bracket for the A/C unit will have screw tabs to secure the control panel and venting system to the upper half. Once this is in place, the A/C should be tested for operation.
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Harry B

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #87 on: July 17, 2010, 12:12:39 AM »
No, they are not labeled. You are going to have to do some measuring as to which circuit you are dealing with.
Harry - (Central FL)

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azloafer

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2010, 12:17:27 PM »
I think that I am not capable enough to do this project. (handicapped)  I talked to the installers at Camping World again and asked a direct question: "have you done this before" and found that they have never actually done something like this, so I cancelled my appointment.  Now to search for someone else and get together with them.  If Forest City was not so far away I would get it done there.  It's a long trip from Arizona.  Joe
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John Canfield

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Re: New project in the works - adding roof air
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2010, 02:05:06 PM »
Surely you can find a good local RV service guy or shop that could tackle the project...
--John
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