why a V10

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utahclaimjumper said:
Carson, the Harley Davidson V twin does not get its distinctive cadence sound from the "valve timing",  its the odd number of degrees of the "V" design, not 45 degrees or 60 degrees.>>>Dan ( a dealer for 21 years)

Wait a minute....  I thought the Harley sound is from the fact they use a common crank journal for both cylinders.  Valve timing and angle of the cylinder separation aren't the reason are they?

Sorry to keep dragging this off subject.
 
Also both cylinders fire at the same time,,, one on the power (compression) stroke and one on the exhaust stroke, it uses a "timer" not a distributor and only one coil.>>>Dan
 
Hi

While no expert on the Ford V10 I have been reading bad things about them on Ford related web sites. Apparently there are lots of problems with the cylinder head spark plug locations....

http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7423

The plug held in the aluminium head by only 4 threads especially drew my attention.

I am really happy with the 7.5 litre Ford V8 that hauls our 350 based Fleetwood Jamboree Searcher  ;)

As for Harleys... I'm English, the land that produced the Vincent Black Shadow if you want a well designed V twin.
I prefer the thud of that beast to the stacato racket of the open pipe Harleys that hang around here!

Geoff
 
Geof,, Altho I also like the Vincents, I particularly like the two Ariel squares I own, nothing sounds like a Mk. 2  on a hard pull.>>>Dan
 
Geoff_T said:
Hi

While no expert on the Ford V10 I have been reading bad things about them on Ford related web sites. Apparently there are lots of problems with the cylinder head spark plug locations....

http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7423

The plug held in the aluminium head by only 4 threads especially drew my attention.

I am really happy with the 7.5 litre Ford V8 that hauls our 350 based Fleetwood Jamboree Searcher  ;)

As for Harleys... I'm English, the land that produced the Vincent Black Shadow if you want a well designed V twin.
I prefer the thud of that beast to the stacato racket of the open pipe Harleys that hang around here!

Geoff

The sparkplug issue was with V10's produced over a decade ago and the numbers were small, it's unfortunate that QC didn't catch the batch that made it into vehicles but again, the numbers were small.
 
The move from the torquey 460 V-8 to the higher revving V-10 likely had a lot to do with emissions. They didn't just tack 2 more cylinders on an existing design.
 
Hi

My post was rather tongue in cheek because I couldn't see the point in making the V10... more reciprocating parts, and who needs high revs in an RV? As they are going back to a V8, presumably with good emissions as well, perhaps Ford see the error of their ways...  ;)

Yes, the Arial Square Four was a great bike, as were all the Vincents, albeit years ahead of their time. Then came the Japanese invasion that I watched, first hand, in the 1960's.

Harleys, to an English eye, are antiquated dinosaurs with tooth shaking vibration. An acquaintance had one and found it unwilling to go around corners... he sold it and bought a Ducati and his ride was transformed.

:)


Geoff
 
It's all about saving money on the assembly line.  It's part of Ford's modular engine line (4.6, 5.4 and 6.8 all have the same bore diameter).  The V-10 has the same bore and stroke as the 5.4.  That means they only need one size piston and can either change the connecting rod length or crank shaft to adjust the displacement and can use the same size pistons and connecting rods in the 5.4 and 6.8.  The angle of the bore banks may be varied though to fine tune for vibrations.

Other manufactures do it.  AMC did similar thing with the 2.5 and 4.0.  THe 2.5 was just a 4.0 with 2 cylinders lopped off and GM did it with the 4.2 I6, 3.5 I5 and 2.8 I4.
 
Hi

It's still a bunch more moving parts though... a V12 would be smoother but even more parts.

The Vincent 1000cc V twins came about because Phil Irving (if I recall correctly) had two blueprints of the 500cc single on top of each other and realised, by rotating them 90 degrees, he could fit a twin in the same frame. I think the Jaguar V12's were two straight six heads on a new block.

:)

Geoff
 
Geoff_T said:
Hi

While no expert on the Ford V10 I have been reading bad things about them on Ford related web sites. Apparently there are lots of problems with the cylinder head spark plug locations....

http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7423

The plug held in the aluminium head by only 4 threads especially drew my attention.

I am really happy with the 7.5 litre Ford V8 that hauls our 350 based Fleetwood Jamboree Searcher  ;)

As for Harleys... I'm English, the land that produced the Vincent Black Shadow if you want a well designed V twin.
I prefer the thud of that beast to the stacato racket of the open pipe Harleys that hang around here!

Geoff
this thread caught my eye, because when I talked to my mechanic about engine choices for my future RV, he Does not like the V10's at all.
  Hmm
 
Mechanics are like everybody else - they have opinions that are not always based on facts. Sometimes it is just an aversion to something different. A lot of mechanics disliked the electronic control engines too - it made many of their skills obsolete and they did not like dealing with them.  Overall, the Ford V10 has been remarkably trouble free engine. Not 100%, of course, but none of them are.

The GM 8.1L V8 is a really excellent engine too. Probably more reliable than even the V10. And nearly all mechanics love a traditional big block V8!
 
RV Roamer said:
Mechanics are like everybody else - they have opinions that are not always based on facts. Sometimes it is just an aversion to something different. A lot of mechanics disliked the electronic control engines too - it made many of their skills obsolete and they did not like dealing with them.  Overall, the Ford V10 has been remarkably trouble free engine. Not 100%, of course, but none of them are.

The GM 8.1L V8 is a really excellent engine too. Probably more reliable than even the V10. And nearly all mechanics love a traditional big block V8!
Thanks for that Gary, I was just trying to convince my soon to be Ex of that fact.  While I adore my mechanic and he is very experienced, I knew he had certain likes and dislikes.  Funny when I had my Dodge Ram I seem to remember his raving about the Triton engines!  LOL
  I have found something that interests me with a V10 and it only has 14000 miles on it.
 
Isn't it funny how we hear one or two "good" or "bad" things about an engine (or whatever) and we store that in our brains, and it influences our purchasing for years.

I met a van driver who had a V-10 Ford who had experienced two spark plug blowouts in his V-10 Ford engine in one year.  I knew after hearing that I'd never want one!  But maybe it was just a few engines during a year's worth of manufacturing??

Coming home from a 10,000 mile trip, I chatted with a Ford V10 PU owner pulling a large box trailer.  He complained that he was only getting 5 MPG!  I was towing my 20 foot TT with my Dodge Hemi 5.7, and was getting 12 - 13 MPG.  That also turned me off on Ford V-10s.  But maybe he like to drive 75 MPH into a 20 MPH headwind!  Who knows?? 

That's why Forums like this are so Valuable!!  ;D ;D

Thanks for sharing!

Ron
 
I've had 2  V-10 trucks, and liked them both.  This last one has the 3 valve system (2005 F-250 SD 4x4) and pulls very well.  As mentioned in another thread, I put a K&N air system, Gibson Exhaust and Banks power chip.  I can pull my 25ft Titanium 5er on most roads with the cruise control engaged, and only use the "tow mode" in hilly areas.

Several things add to the V-10's desirability, they are overhead cam engines, so they can safely rev higher than push-rod engines, they have aluminum heads, so the engine total weight is lower (about 890 pounds lighter than Ford's big diesel), and they do not need tubro-charging and associated inter-cooling to get the torque numbers up.  So far gasoline is cheaper than diesel, but that can change.  There is a heck of a lot more room under the hood of my truck than my friend's with the diesel.  Heaven help him if he has to change an alternator.  I just wish the transmission was as beefy as the engine. 

Oh, I do miss the V-8 sound, even with the Gibson exhaust this thing sounds like a pregnant bumble bee stuck to a rock singers microphone.

Finally, anyone else find back-up info for Ford cutting the V-10 out for 2011?

johncmr
 
Johncmr said:
I've had 2  V-10 trucks, and liked them both.  This last one has the 3 valve system (2005 F-250 SD 4x4) and pulls very well.  As mentioned in another thread, I put a K&N air system, Gibson Exhaust and Banks power chip.  I can pull my 25ft Titanium 5er on most roads with the cruise control engaged, and only use the "tow mode" in hilly areas.

Several things add to the V-10's desirability, they are overhead cam engines, so they can safely rev higher than push-rod engines, they have aluminum heads, so the engine total weight is lower (about 890 pounds lighter than Ford's big diesel), and they do not need tubro-charging and associated inter-cooling to get the torque numbers up.  So far gasoline is cheaper than diesel, but that can change.  There is a heck of a lot more room under the hood of my truck than my friend's with the diesel.  Heaven help him if he has to change an alternator.  I just wish the transmission was as beefy as the engine. 

Oh, I do miss the V-8 sound, even with the Gibson exhaust this thing sounds like a pregnant bumble bee stuck to a rock singers microphone.

Finally, anyone else find back-up info for Ford cutting the V-10 out for 2011?

johncmr
 

The 3 Valve may rev higher than push rod motors but the previous ones (I don't know what the 3valve rev limit is) had a rev limit of 5250 or there a bouts and that is a very low limit. Adding headers and a chip may improve that number a tad but most push rod motors can rev higher. Now my 3 vlalve 4.6 with new air box and tuning went from a 6250 rev limit to 6750 which is incredible. The new 5.0 4v motor handles 7,000 all day. So I like the V10, but as a rev machine it just isn't one. My old 5.0 push rod could spin to 6k easily, 350 small blocks bone stock even in the '80's could rev higher than the V10. :)

 
You're correct.  I was thinking more of the big block engines like the 460, which stock were pretty well tuned for torque. 
I know in the motorcycle engines the racing ones run 10 -12K rpm, but their reciprocating weight is WAY lower than car engines 5.0 or so displacement, and a few pounds below truck engines like 6.0L diesels and the 6.8L V-10.
I suppose I can run the truck @ 5K on a hill or something, but the friggin noise is incredible, so I wimp out and keep it no higher than 4 - 4.2K.
I never looked up the rev limit, but I'm sure MY rev tolerance is below what the computer's is!  Humm-I don't think I'd want to rev a stock big diameter torque converter too high either.

johncmr
 
Kim58 said:
this thread caught my eye, because when I talked to my mechanic about engine choices for my future RV, he Does not like the V10's at all.
  Hmm
Neither do I. It's a rather small (not much larger than 400 CID) high revving engine that gets lousy MPG and has had its share of problems. When I was looking for a used RV, I would not look at any Ford V-10's, but the older 460 I would consider. Unfortunately, most smaller class C RV's these days are V-10's.

But I realize there are many people who like the V-10's. I just don't understand why. I know of no advantage of the V-10 compared to other engines, but there does seem to be some disadvantages.

Now, I  expect to be bombarded with messages  from the many happy V-10 owners.;D

-Don- SSF, CA​
 
RV Roamer said:
The GM 8.1L V8 is a really excellent engine too. Probably more reliable than even the V10.
I wouldn't say "probably". I would say there's no doubt. That's the engine I wish I had in my small Class C. But I am very happy with my 7.4L and gets 9.5 MPG freeway average, which is a lot better than I thought was possible. And it has plenty of power on the hills. But for a RV, I want the largest and most reliable gasoline engine possible, which I believe is that 8.1L. But they don't seem to put that in my size Class C RV's (26 feet or less).


-Don- SSF, CA​
 
DonTom said:
Neither do I. It's a rather small (not much larger than 400 CID) high revving engine that gets lousy MPG and has had its share of problems. When I was looking for a used RV, I would not look at any Ford V-10's, but the older 460 I would consider. Unfortunately, most smaller class C RV's these days are V-10's.

But I realize there are many people who like the V-10's. I just don't understand why. I know of no advantage of the V-10 compared to other engines, but there does seem to be some disadvantages.

Now, I  expect to be bombarded with messages  from the many happy V-10 owners.;D

-Don- SSF, CA​
 
When you have a preconceived opinion about something you will defend it, wrong or right. The Ford V10 as it is now is a terrific engine that gets excellent power for a gasser, decent mpg, certainly no worse than any of the competition. The 460 was a good engine, fantastic even but emissions and too many engines not making the upcoming emissions standards in the mid 90?s forced Ford to build more emission friendly tighter tolerance engines using a modular design, smart thinking in my humble view and it works like a charm. Consider the new 5.0, GM needs cubic inches to attain big numbers, 412hp from such a small engine is phenomenal.

What share of issues, the big one was spark plug blow out and this number was a small one, other than that the history of the V10 is excellent. We could argue better than the 454 and more powerful as well in later configurations.

The 460 in its best (last) configuration put out 245hp and 395lb-ft and the V10 in it?s original config (like in my 1999) put out 275hp and 415lb-ft (305hp and 425lb-ft in truck installs) so not sure why you would like the larger 460 more when it in fact is the weaker of the two and gets worse mpg? The current model puts out 362hp and 457lb-ft and if you consider that weak then no gas engine will suit you.

Add the full bolt on Banks power pack and the numbers for the V10 jump significantly. Will it ever equal a good DP, no way but for a gasser you can?t do any better.
 

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