ARMED AND DANGEROUS ESCAPED CONVICTS!

Luca1369 said:

While I would be the first to take revenge with my own hands for harm brought to a loved one, I have to agree with Holly Near who said: "Why do we kill people who are killing people to show that killing people is wrong?"

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ow, that statrement hurts my head, lol
least we kill our convicted prisoners in a more humain way, can't see U.S prisonsstarting beheadings and stoning

leon17 said:

ow, that statrement hurts my head, lol
least we kill our convicted prisoners in a more humain way, can't see U.S prisonsstarting beheadings and stoning

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I don't feel that there is a "humane" way of killing a prisoner (there are even questions about lethal injections). 

As a species we have made tremendous advances in technology but our basic humanity is lagging way, way behind.  As a species we are little more than well-dressed and accessorized cavemen who are still throwing rocks and sticks at each other.

Who's to say if it's more humane to shoot a prisoner, electrocute a prisoner, or behead a prisoner?  We think ourselves so civilized yet when it comes to captial punishment we are little better than those that kill by stoning, a little better perhaps, but not much, we're still killing people.  We commit murder in the name of Justice and to suppress our guilt we stand tall and proud and say that we kill people in a better way than other people kill people.   

Most "pro" death penalty folks like to claim it as a deterrent, but that has seldom proved to be the case.  In the old West, horse thieves still stole horses knowing if caught they would be hung.  I believe there are only two reasons for the state to put people to death - 1) revenge  2) to save money.  In my book, neither one can be truly justified no matter how "humane" the execution may be.

To deter crime there must be punishment for crime.  The punishment must be swift and sure.  Today we have neither, and as a result we have crime increasing exponentially because there is no punishment.
Society must have laws and laws must be enforced.  Today we have laws, but they are not enforced.  Lots of arrests, but no enforcement and punishment.
Capital punishment is the absolute deterrent.  No one who has suffered capital punishment has afterward committed a crime, ever, and never will.  How others see it can be debated.  My opinion is that someone seeing SURE, and SWIFT punishment for crime committed will be less likely to commit crimes.
Our punishment for crime has decreased in the past few decades, and our crime rates continue to climb.  Anyone surprised?  Not me.
CarlGeo

CarlGeo said:

  Capital punishment is the absolute deterrent.  No one who has suffered capital punishment has afterward committed a crime, ever, and never will.  How others see it can be debated.  My opinion is that someone seeing SURE, and SWIFT punishment for crime committed will be less likely to commit crimes.

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Capital Punishment is Not a deterrent.  People still kill people, and most do so with little thought as to how the law will treat them.  Captial Punishment is simply not working (on the other hand, sadly, there is no alternative that shows more promise). 

The fact that we have put innocent people to death for crimes they did not commit invalidates the concept of Captial Punishment even more.  We humans, in our zeal to serve "Justice," every so often put to death an innocent person and we do so without fear of retribution.  Shouldn't "Captial Punishment" include those that were found to have terminated the life of an innocent person?  What then?  Would "Capital Punishment" deter that crime if we executed the cop who falsified a case, or the witness who gave inaccurate testimony, or the DA who fought with such fervor to convict an innocent man, or the judge who sentenced the innocent man, and the executioner who flipped the switch that actually brought about the death?  All of them are accomplices to a muder and, according to our laws, should receive the proper punishment.  Yeah...right...ain't gonna happen! 

Until we as a species change our disgusting habits we will continue to kill each other and no law will ever stop that.

FYI

Word has it (and please trust me that I have good word), they were seen with in the last 48 hours heading north towards Sundance, Devil's Tower, etc in WY. She has dyed her hair blonde.

The statement that capitol punishment "does not deter crime" is the old nonsense standard that people have used for decades to try and abolish the death penalty.  Well, if society puts a criminal to death, he never, ever gets an opportunity to commit more crime, therefore we never get to see the results of that person committing more crime.  It is utter bullbutter to say it does not deter crime because THAT individual never impacts criminal statistics again.  So do not tell me it does not deter crime.

I am thinking of the 6-year old girl who was repeatedly raped and then buried alive with her teddy bear.  That is how they found her....dead and clutching her teddy bear!  And when they arrested the degenerate who did this and were planning to end his miserable life, people showed up at the penetentiary with candles to protests the death penalty.  What a bunch of group hug, nonsense!

And more people have escaped to commit terrible crimes again than those inncocent people who have been sent to prison.  I am growing tired of our permissive, "Im OK, you're OK," society.  When we know for certain that an individual has committed such crime, why on earth should we be squeemish about sending him on to eternity?  He has earned the right to die.   

napalm204 said:

The statement that capitol punishment "does not deter crime" is the old nonsense standard that people have used for decades to try and abolish the death penalty.  Well, if society puts a criminal to death, he never, ever gets an opportunity to commit more crime, therefore we never get to see the results of that person committing more crime.  It is utter bullbutter to say it does not deter crime because THAT individual never impacts criminal statistics again.  So do not tell me it does not deter crime.

I am thinking of the 6-year old girl who was repeatedly raped and then buried alive with her teddy bear.  That is how they found her....dead and clutching her teddy bear!  And when they arrested the degenerate who did this and were planning to end his miserable life, people showed up at the penetentiary with candles to protests the death penalty.  What a bunch of group hug, nonsense!

And more people have escaped to commit terrible crimes again than those inncocent people who have been sent to prison.  I am growing tired of our permissive, "Im OK, you're OK," society.  When we know for certain that an individual has committed such crime, why on earth should we be squeemish about sending him on to eternity?  He has earned the right to die.   

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This is a touchy subject and there is no answer to the problem of our human tendency to kill our own kind.  We have to progress beyond the crime of murder which has plagued our civilization since Cain and Abel.

In spite of your belief in the "old nonsense standard," capital punishment does not deter the crime it is designed to deter, murder, no "bullbutter" about it.  Saying you have deterred the perp from further crime is not a deterrent to other potential murderers, it is nothing more than taking an eye for an eye.  Murder, under any guise and label is still murder, don't try to cover it up by calling it a deterrent. 

And spare me the little girl graphics that your spout in defense of legalized murder, regardless of the victim or the severity of the crime.  The emotions such a description are designed to bring up are meant less in sympathy for the little girl and more as fuel for supporters of capital punishment (who remind me of the Romans in the Colesium, thumbs down, we're only here for the bloodfest!!!).

As I said in an earlier post. I would be the first to take justice into my own hands in regards to my loved ones, I am not opposed to defense of home and hearth.  While I am against capital punishment (as a "deterrent"), I for one would rip a man apart if he hurt my child.  Perhaps we should take the convicted murderer and lock him in a room with several of the victim's family members for an hour. 

Luca1369-

I did not intend to offend you, but I have as much right to state my case as you have.  (And you did a pretty good job of stating your case!!)  Healthy debate is what makes this nation great.  And by the way, I do not have to spare you anything, my friend.  I respect your opinion, but your opinion is like a rearhole.  "Everyone has one that wants one."

The real difference I can possibly see between you and me is that if it happened to "your child" you would want to tear the perpretator apart with your bare hands, but if it were my child you would vote to spare the creeps life.  And while you might find that story of the 6-year old girl too dramatic and too emotionally charged for your taste, it is not so for me.

I hope such horror never visits either of us, but I would want death for the man who did this to your child, just like I would want it for mine.  We will simply agree to disagree on the matter.

I wish you happy RVing. 

This thread made me wonder about carrying weapons in your RV.

If you have a concealed weapon, is it considered 'in your home,' or 'in your vehicle?'

napalm204 said:

I did not intend to offend you, but I have as much right to state my case as you have.  (And you did a pretty good job of stating your case!!)  Healthy debate is what makes this nation great.  And by the way, I do not have to spare you anything, my friend.  I respect your opinion, but your opinion is like a rearhole.  "Everyone has one that wants one."
The real difference I can possibly see between you and me is that if it happened to "your child" you would want to tear the perpretator apart with your bare hands, but if it were my child you would vote to spare the creeps life.  And while you might find that story of the 6-year old girl too dramatic and too emotionally charged for your taste, it is not so for me.
I hope such horror never visits either of us, but I would want death for the man who did this to your child, just like I would want it for mine.  We will simply agree to disagree on the matter.

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Napalm,

You did not offend me, I was just responding to your remarks (sometimes the tone of the typed word can be misread, or even worse, one can read into a sentence something that is simply not there, perhaps I should have used a smiley face to convey a happy tone).  However, I did not feel the need to remind you that your opinion, like mine, was like a "rearhole" which you so eloquently pointed out to me.

I did not find your story of the little girl too emotionally charged for my tastes.  If you take a moment and read my post again you might notice my remarks supported my belief that the only reason for such a description is simply to invoke strong feelings in the reader in order to direct their attention to the "pro" side of the death penalty argument.  That is all such a graphic description serves to do.  It is advertising, it is propoganda, and I want no part of it.  I see things as they are, in black and white, with no "bullbutter" about them.  I can think for myself without someone trying to play my heartstrings to further their own agenda.

Also, and here again you might have read me wrong as you have me taking actions that I have not taken.  I would not vote to spare the life of the person who killed your child, instead I would suggest that you exact revenge instead of the state doing it.  You have that right, in my view the state does not, however the way our society is set up is that the state takes the responsibility for exacting revenge for us, it gives a lot of people a job they would not normally have.

If you have a concealed weapon, is it considered 'in your home,' or 'in your vehicle?'

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That depends upon which state you are in. In all states that I know about, your motorhome is your residence and residential rules apply. In Idaho, (which I know best as I live here,) a weapon hidden in your RV is not "concealed." That is, concealed weapons laws do not apply to a residence. Don't assume that works, where you are. Research the law, there, and/or call the state capitol office of the state police and ask them.

In some states, local options may over-ride. San Francisco is a good example. Don't take a handgun to SF!    (Not that you are likely to take a motorhome to San Francisco, any more than a handgun.) The law there is in an uncertain circumstance, at this time, due to new Supreme Court rulings. They are still enforcing the prior law, so maybe someone will volunteer the test that in the next SC case.  : :  Ummmm, not me!

Ray D 

Ray D said:

That depends upon which state you are in. In all states that I know about, your motorhome is your residence and residential rules apply.

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I think you will find that a motorhome on the road is considered a vehicle, and a MH that is parked in a designated camping spot to be considered a residence. 

Geodrake, a motorhome on the road is still a residence, here. The cockpit, only, is a vehicle. However, this is a "can-o-worms." You opened it, not me. You ought to see the debate when LEOs discuss this subject!  ;D : :-\  Most, that I have talked to about this, say they are reluctant to stop a motorhome, at all. You gotta really goof up, to get noticed, in a motorhome!

And, most say they would prefer to knock on the entrance door and ask the driver to step out, for the ticket signing ceremony.

The bedroom? Not even going to look, there, without a warrant, and they would prefer not to bother with a warrant. So guns in the bedroom are fine, loaded or not - plain sight or not. Booze, too.  ;D 

From the driver's area back, pretty much the same. Not going to look in the refer "Unless I have to. If I find an open container in there, not doing anything about it!" Guns OK in that part of the MH.

Now, what is the "Drivers Area? Is it just what the driver can reach, sitting down? Is it the whole front end? What is "Plain Sight?"  : :

And, here, you don't need a permit to carry concealed except in an incorporated city, a mining camp or a lumber camp. Not needed on an interstate.

The Devil is in the details! 

Ray D  :

Ray D-

In the state of Texas one may own a weapon (handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc) and may have it in his home, his car or his motorhome.  He cannot carry a handgun on his person out in public unless he is properly licensed and trained to do so.

If one's vehicle is stopped by a law enforcement official he is obligated to tell that officer about the weapon in that vehicle.

I do not own a gun of any type.  I am not a hunter or big game enthusiast.  I got enough of that in Vietnam, but I am legal to own a firearm in Texas if I choose to do so.

Ah yes, Luca, if we could only take the law into our own hands.  But alas, we would both go to jail if we did.  Therefore, the only option we have available is to follow the laws of the land.  In a perfect world your idea of allowing the surviving family members to exact revenge would only work in a few cases.  Most people would not have your resolve to take any action even if they had the right.

They would believe that society made this person evil.  Or his father abused him.  Or his puppy was run over when he was five.  You know what?  I really don't care.  One makes a choice to be happy or unhappy, evil or law-abiding citizen.  Many people have survived terrible childhoods to become productive citizens.  I believe it is a choice.   

That leaves us with the death penalty.  I will support it as long as the laws are as they are now.  I appreciate your views and recognize that solving the social ills in this nation require intelligence far beyond my own.  But until a reasonable option for dealing with such monsters is brought into law, I will stand by my convictions.  I am sure you will do so as well.

Keep the wheels on the bottom, dude. 

LEO here.

The motorhome home residency/vehicle debate is UGLY. There are so many factors involved, one could write an entire book of law on this subject alone. Every state is different, every circumstance is different, every incident is a whole new ball game that involves opening up the state law book while sitting in the patrol car unless it is a cut and dry thing like speed or equipment failure. Having one blown open in the middle of the road from an accident adds a whole new dimension to it 

When it comes to guns....I think EVERYONE should know how to use one and carry one. Things to remember......Don't make a fuss about it (blah blah blah, I have this gun in my coach.....). Don't tell people you have it unless it's an LEO asking (even then use some discression in the MH). Don't lay it out on the dash in plain sight, but keep it close enough to grab but secure enough so others don't grab. And if you plan on using it, use it to kill. There is no wounding, scaring or intimidating. You shoot to kill. There is no other reason to point a gun at someone invading your home turf. It's a lethal weapon that should never be used as a threat.

This couple is deadly serious and have nothing to lose at this point. Lock your doors and windows, treat strangers with caution and if someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night, light the place up with every light you have before looking out. If you can not confirm they are LE or your best friend from the campsite next door, DON"T open the door!

in2adventure, you mentioned -

whole new ball game that involves opening up the state law book while sitting in the patrol car

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Better idea, call dispatch. Let them read the book. If necessary, they can call the prosecutor and he can get the book out.  ;D ;D ;D  (Where's the belly-laugh smiley?) (Might not work where you are. Works here.)

Complex Gray Areas - love them!  : 

Ray D  ;D 

just alittle TRUE story for those who oppose the death penalty.  A lady in my town goes missing, they find her truck, her house looks as though it was robbed, husband out of town at this time... months later, Someone  tells the police they helped kill and cover it up.  The other woman, beat this lady, shot her, then burned her on her own farm. As of yesterday, the DA said that this type of crime, didn't deserve the death penalty

My thought is what more did she have to do to this woman?  As of yesterday, they lady that told on the other one, no jail time, the other woman, plead guilty and is suposed to get 30 years >: ???

Now here is the kicker, the husband just got arressted for knowing about it too, and help covering it up. may get up to 20 years for it.

last but not least.... The woman that planed this out, and did it(30yr sentence) was the lady's daughter, and was sleeping with the step dad.

Ray D said:

in2adventure, you mentioned -
Better idea, call dispatch. Let them read the book. If necessary, they can call the prosecutor and he can get the book out.  ;D ;D ;D  (Where's the belly-laugh smiley?) (Might not work where you are. Works here.)

Complex Gray Areas - love them!  : 

Ray D  ;D

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LOL! I've done that too. Usually it's a call to a special agent at 3am...this is what I'm dealing with...call me back when you figure out what I've got...click  ;D