Wow...really like this 5th wheel

So I was perusing another post and came across a link to a dealer.  I saw this 5th wheel and it really initially "spoke" to me.  I like the floor plan a lot. and it is within the budget we had set for a trailer.  But, it is longer than we wanted.  It is 28' but we wanted to stay closer to 24', maybe 26'.  And, it is a 5th wheel which we had considered (and knew we would convert it to a gooseneck) but recently had decided to go with a bumper pull.


Here is the trailer and the link:
28' 2000 Sprinter By Keystone w/Slide - F769
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/5thwheel/2000-Sprinter-By-Keystone-18021.htm


So, some questions: is a 28' 5th wheel equal to a 24' bumper pull in length.  I would guess a 5th wheel is measured the same as any other trailer so perhaps the "main box" of a 5th wheel is equal to a 24' bumper pull.

Also, what tow vehicle would you recommend for this trailer?  We like a crew cab 4-door and need 4 wheel drive. A 1 ton, a 3/4 ton?

Do any of you know of another trailer with the same floor plan or very similar in a shorter length, 5th wheel or bumper pull?

Thanks.

The official way to measure an RV is the usable living area, but I have no idea what numbers you are quoting. The overall length of a travel trailer is 3-4 ft greater than that of a fifth wheel with the same amount of usable space.  So it is quite likely that a 28 ft 5W is much larger than a 24 ft TT. If the 24 ft is interior space, then the TT is almost 4 ft shorter. If the 24' is overall (exterior) length, then the TT is 7-8 ft larger in terms of living area.

Gary---  I thought the measurement of an RV, especially a class A, was bumper to bumper, not living space.

Also, what tow vehicle would you recommend for this trailer?  We like a crew cab 4-door and need 4 wheel drive. A 1 ton, a 3/4 ton?

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The only way you would know is if you had the gross vehicle weight rating of the trailer.  You would then compare it with the tow rating of a possible truck.  A trailer's GVWR is on the DOT plate of the unit -- left side sidewall near the front.

The #'s I am quoting are the length of the trailers.  The 5th wheel I like is said to be a 28' fth wheel.  The bumper pull trailers I have been looking at are 24' - 26' lengths.  I have no clue what the usable living area is.  I always go buy what the nfr says they are: 24', 35', 19', etc.  Doesn't that refer to the length?

And, what is useable living space on a 5th wheel? Does that include the bed area over the truck bed?

I always thought a trailer was bumper to bumper also, which is why I was thinking a 28' 5th wheel might be equal to a 24' bumper pull.  I  am thinking the 24' bumper pull TT would be from the front of the trailer to the back of the trailer.  I am thinking a 5th wheel would be measured from the front of the trailer, the part that hangs over the bed of the truck, to the back of the trailer, correct?  And, if about 6' of a 5th wheel is in the air and above the truck bed doesn't that mean the part behind the truck on the road is similar to what would be behind the truck if it was a bumper-pull?  If so, I am thinking a longer 5th wheel equals a shorter bumper pull.

So, if a 5th wheel is called a 28' by the mfr is it really a 34' if the bed area above the truck bed is 6' long?

And, I am curious if there is another trailer out there with a similar floor plan.

And, since I am in NM and this trailer is in TX, is there someplace o n-line I can get the weight of the trailer, short of calling the dealer right now?  Are any of you familiar with this trailer and might be able to give an educated guess to the weight?

The RVIA says it is the usable interior living space, which includes sleeping quarters and thus the overhang on a 5W or class C. That rule has been in effect for maybe 4-5 years now, but only applies to  official manufacturer model descriptions.  Dealers, especially on used models, can call them any length they want.  The "bumper-to-bumper" or "bumper to hitch" length is called overall length or exterior length.  So the official length in the model designation is shorter, e.g. a Model 28BFA 5W is probably 29.5 feet in exterior length, and a model 28TTA TT might be 31.5 ft in exterior. But when the dealer casually calls it a 30 footer, he is probbaly talking about the overall, exterior length.length.

You have your length comparisons on 5W vs TT backwards.  A travel trailer has 3-4 feet of tongue  out in the front, whereas a 5W does not.  Therefore the TT has LESS space, not more.

solarrv said:

And, since I am in NM and this trailer is in TX, is there someplace o n-line I can get the weight of the trailer, short of calling the dealer right now?  Are any of you familiar with this trailer and might be able to give an educated guess to the weight?

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Keystone has a good archive of their specs dating back to 1999.  The shipping weights aren't listed for the 2000 models but the carrying capacity, pin weight, length, height, fresh, grey and black water tank capacities, tire rim size.

Here's the link to the 2000 year sprinter specs: http://keystone-sprinter.com/index.php?page=specs&year=2000

Judging by the carrying capacity of this unit (2887 lbs) and pin weight (1140 lbs), this unit is probably going to be pushing 8000 lbs dry.  I would definitely go with at least a 3/4 ton truck to be safe.

Dale

I got a quick reply back from a salesman, who is not at the lot since it is closed today.  he is guessign it is in the 8,000 - 8,500 GVW range and believes the main box is about 24' long.

I am not sure about the RVIA definition, etc as it sounds too confusing to me.  Leave it to a "governing body" to confuse the issue:  I think most people are concerned with total length, not usable living area.  I know I am concerned with total length.  People too often overcomplicate the issue.  If a mfr sells a unit and calls it a 24', or whatever, it is considered a 24' trailer, and the actual length will be close to that.  that is what people think about when buying, I would suspect.  I know I do not go around thinking ..hmm..a 24' .... now is that usable living space, or is that the total length?  To me, it is total length, give or take the ladders off the back and the tongue in the front.  And, if a dealer is trying to sell / market somethng as a 28' and it really is a 20',  I am sure the buyer would suspect something is up if the trailer model # does not have a 28 in it, or a 275 or something like that.

Do I really have it backwards?  I would think I would if the tongue is included in the total length, so if a trailer si marketed by the mfr as a 24' does that include the tongue?  Maybe I am trying to have it both ways...it would be nice to add this to the library..to have a generic, usual total length of different size trailers, including the tongue, etc.

Gotta ask... what's the big problem with going 28' versus the 24-26' you've been considering?  We're talking about the length of your arm.  A negligible difference I'd say, unless you have a storage drive/shed/garage that has a finite amount of space.  Sorry if I missed that in the thread thus far.  There is probably no 100% guarantee between makes/models and what measuring method = total length.  The best way to know is contact the seller/dealer in any individual case and ask them for a bumper-to-bumper measurement.

On the floorplan, I can't name specific makes/models but the setup of that 2000 Keystone seems pretty common.  Front bedroom, rear kitchen, single slide near the rear that contains the couch and dinette.  What specifically do you like most about it?  I'm sure if you keep looking you'd be able to find a TT that is pretty similar, if you'd prefer that over a 5er.  I've seen some really unique floorplans but this one doesn't really seem to fit that description.

The rear kitchen, middle bath, slide out where it is..givesa lot of room.  I have mot seen many floor plans like that, with only one door.

For access to my neighborhood 24' makes it easy, any longer makes it really tight.  I did not think it this was such a hard question.  I know there are variances between trailers and mfr's but there can;t be 2' - 3' - 6' differences.  If a mfr is sellign a 24' bumper pull trailer it must be 24'.  Does that include the tongue?  If a mfr is selling a 24' 5th wheel, where is the measurement from?  The front part, by the bed, the part above the truck, or do they measure a 28' trailer on just the main "box" part, and the part above the bed, the part above the hitch, is "extra" length that is not counted, so a 28' 5th wheel is actually 28' + the length of the bed area, the part above the truck.  Or, do some mfr's meausre from the bed area to the back of the trailer and some mfr's measure just the box area, so 2 different mfr's 28' 5th wheel can  be as much as 6', or howver long the bed area is, different? That was all I was asking.  If they measure from the bed area to the back then a 28' ft 5th wheel is probably actually equivalent to a 22' - 24' bumper pull, in regards to how far back from the back of the tow vehicle the  back of the trailer is.

So, access to the neighborhood is why I wanted to stick to a 24' length.  And, I thought someone on here would know the answer to my question, which I thought was pretty simple.

solarrv,

I will try to help here. i bought a keystone springdale 267 tt in march this year it was listed as a 26 foot tt but the length from bumber of truck to rear of trailer was 28.6 feet so i was pulling 28.6 feet. i traded it in 4 monthes later for a kystone challenger 5th wheel 33bbd listed as 33 foot over all length from front cone to rear trailer box is 39.6 feet but from bumber of truck to rear of trailer is 33.7 .... i hope this helps understand

one more issue that my help if you look at models look for 24rk or 26rk the rk is rear kitchen there are lots of floorplans like the one you posted in both 5th wheel and tt models if you are looking at model numbers if its a tt figure you need to add 2 to 3 feet to model number for pull length and on fifth wheel the model is usually tow length or close to it at least with the new ones i looked at in the last couple of years. so a 24 foot tt is 27 pull length and a 24 foot fiver is 28 or 29 foot long but pulls 24 foot or so roughly go with the 5th wheel more space less pull length. i just got back from pulling my 33foot fiver in to a hospital parking lot and it was tight everywhere up ugly hills tight turns trees overhangs it can be done if you take your time you really will be amazed how easy it will be to tow bigger then you think....

far as a tv go 1ton diesel dodge or chev crew cab why play around if your like me and love rving you will end up buying a bigger one in no time anyway might as well have the tv for it already...

Question is simple, but the answer is: "it depends".  Since you are going to be physically looking at these units before buying, you could bring along a measuring tape.

If access to your neighbourhood is tight, I suggest a TT over a 5W because it tracks a lot closer to the TV tracks than a 5W.

The reasoning behind the RVIA length definition is that it makes a 30 ft motorhome the same as a 30 5w and a 30 ft TT. They all deliver the same amount of usable space by that definition.  Overall length is of little interest unless you have a specific space restriction, such as a garage.

The definition isn't important, though.  What is important that you understand that overall length is different than floor plan or interior length/space. Don't make any assumptions about what the dealer says - look at both interior and exterior size and decide what works for you.

Get a measuring tape, take it with you when looking.  A 5th wheel will be more maneuverable in the neighborhood than a TT. 

One thing about rear kitchen to consider, the kitchen in the back gives the cabinet contents quite a ride over bumps,  the far end of a lever.  Makes a great floorplan but something of a challenge to pack.  Get pillows to stuff inside.  Mid kitchens have an easier ride. 

I have a Prowler 5er with the same floor plan except I have a table & chairs instead of the booth.  My wife loves the layout,and has already told me if we were to move to a newer unit, we would be getting a similar floor plan.  The kitchen in the rear sounds like it might be a problem, but I can tell you that we have been a lot of places (the last trip to Yellowstone 5300 miles total ) and we have never had ANY problem with dishes or other things moving around or getting damaged.  I measured the height under the front of the trailer on mine, and it is 61".  I have a Ram 3/4 ton diesel and I have no problems with clearance to truck bed.  I didn't measure it, but I am guessing it is about 5 to 6".  Plenty of power and the only time I remember it pulling into a lower gear was on a 10% grade.  I hope this gives you some help or comfort.    Oops I posted in the wrong thread.

It's confirmed.  A 5th wheel has more space and less overall mass (trailer) behind the tow vehicle than a similar length bumper / tongue pull trailer.  As an example, a 28ft 5th wheel has more space & less overall mass than a 24' bumper / tongue pull.

I physically measured 4 different 5th wheels & bumper / tongue pull trailers today.  It was a combination of both new & used units.  There is approximately. 10" - 18" behind each unti for the bumper, ladder, and spare tire, depending on what that particular unit had.  So, I figured 18" and if you want to be really safe go with 24".  I did not find one unit today that had  something more than 24" off the back of the trailer but there could be.  And every single bumper / tongue pull trialer had about 36" - 40" of tongue in front of the trailer.  So, the 24' bumper pull trailers I measured were all approximately 28.5' long: 3' of tongue, 24' of trailer, plus 18" of spare tire, give or take a few inches.

Every 5th wheel I measured today had approximately 5' - 6' of bed that would be above the tow vehicle (truck) bed.  Like the bumper pull trailers, there was approx. 18" of spare tire behind the trailer.  And, all the 5th wheels I measured today had approx. 20' of actual trailer (box) behind the  tow vehicle, plus about 2' between the actual tow vehicle and the main box of the trailer.  So, 20' + 2' + 18" = 23.5" of mass behind the tow vehicle.  So, less mass behind the tow vehicle equals a more compact total towing package.  So, in the trailers I measured today, a 28' 5th wheel on average was about 4' shorter than a 24' bumper pull trailer when comparing total tow package length. 

I find this interesting because I am concerned about total tow package length, and to find out a longer 5th wheel is actually shorter by about 4' is a lot.  So, we can get more living space and still have a short tow package length.  Heck, I could even possibly bump up to a 30' - 32' 5th wheel and still be in the same range of total length as if I had bought a 24' bumper pull.  That is great.  I just need to now find the trailer we want, and then find the tow vehicle.

Another reason why this is of interest to me is I have been limiting our searches to 24' long trailers, either 5th wheel or bumper pull.  That was because I knew a 24' bumper pull had the tongue, etc and would be longer than 24' and therefore I was approaching the max length.  I had never thought about a longer 5th wheel because 24' was stuck in my mind.  Unitl I saw this 28' 5th wheel for sale and something clicked in my mind.  And, to find out a 28' 5th is actually onbl about 22' in length behinc a tow vehicle, compared to about 28' - 29' for a 24' bumper pull, my whole search pattern has been expanded greatly.  I now know to limit my search to 24' in length for bumper pulls and I can safely, for sure, get a 28' 5th wheel.  In the past when I saw a 5th wheel longer then 24' I said ..."nice trailer, but way too long".  Not anymore!!  And, I can possibly get a 30' - 32' since I need to stay with about 28' of total length  

Another example: My Alfa 38 is 40ft. overall. I always assumed the manufacturer was measuring from the pin to the back bumper (approx) because the space between the pin and front end cap (~2 ft) (which bulges out in front) is not really living space it is, in my case,  a full width clothes closet.

All Alfa models, regardless of overall size had about a 2 foot difference between the model size (the 38 above) and the length overall.

The Glendale Titanium always published 2 figures like 24/29 because of the double overhang on their models, 24 from the pin, 29 overall.

Why is the length an issue?  Is it because of parking space or due to limited maneuvering space when driving?

Reason I ask is while a 5th wheel can be longer while having smaller total towing length compared to a bumper pull, a 5th wheel also makes wider turns because of where the pivot point is located.  So depending on why the length is an issue, the best config can vary.