Objective measures of MH quality

Are there any objective measures of MH quality.  I purchased a Tiffin and feel like the tiffin fans are far from objective when it comes to their coaches or service in Red Bay.  My MH is ok but the numerous serious problems I have heard from others and continued loyalty makes no sense to me.

What bothers me more is what if tiffin is one of the better manufacturers?  Do they all just suck?

Every manufacturer has it's fans and every manufacturer has people who have not been happy.  Period.  If you read ten reviews on a company, and throw out the best two and the worst two, you will have a fairly representative opinion.  I don't think that reviews and opinions are objective because they are based on personal experiences and my needs and experiences from a MH could be very different from yours.  As far as Tiffin, I think is one of the better manufacturers and the perception is that they stand behind their product. 

Do they all just suck? Well, an any objective scale I guess the answer would be "yes". RVs are hand built with multiple designs (floor plans) and options and the designs change frequently as well, yet they try to run an assembly line anyway. Not conducive to highest quality. Add to that the complexity of the multiple power systems (12vdc, 120vac, LP) and power sources (shore, generator, inverters, batteries, etc.) and it's sort of a wonder anything works at a price that is even remotely affordable.

But enough apologies for the industry - they could do a lot better. Even the luxury class rigs ought to be a lot better.

And no, there is no objective measure of RV quality. We probably couldn't even agree on what items ought to be included in the measure, let alone how to rate them.

I'm sure that each manufacturer has their objective measures... but I'm just as sure they are closely guarded trade secrets.

I agree with Gary that, although they could all do better, these are very complicated systems and problems are a part of the game.  A few years ago we spent the winter in Palm Springs, Ca at one of those "lifestyles of the rich and famous" places.  We were surrounded by Newells, Marathons, etc.  We learned that even those megabuck coaches have a long list of troubles... but the difference was that the mfg sent techs out on site to take care of them!  ;D

As a comparison,, walk thru stick built homes and try to objectfully compare quality items.

I agree tiffin tries, but there were people with no appointments in september that waited over 1 month to get in a bay

2010 appointments were all booked full in july 09

someone with an appointment with a roof leak was told to come back in april 2011 as this is a major repair issue for some years and they can not handle all of them.  So 2 day drive here 2 day drive home along with some time here.  His stay next april will be longer and he still has 4 days on the road to look forward to again.

Tiffin will repair his roof and that is good, but that is a measure of standing behind the product.  It is not a measure of are they producing quality MHs from the start.

I am glad my problems have not been significant (yet), but I think I may go for winebago or newmar next time based on similar comments on forums of "good" quality like tiffin.  What scares me will things be better if I switch? 

Solid objective information seems lacking to me.  Cheer leading by tiffin owners when they seem to be rationing or poorly managing or what ever the good service in red bay does not seem to get mentioned.

We special ordered a new coach back in 2001. I was friendly with the VP-Operations who helped us spec and option the coach, including some one-off changes. I had made friends with the Quality Control Manager and he assured me that the coach would be watched closely, and after completion, I was told that the coach was the most inspected coach they had ever built.

When they tried to deliver the coach, it had a major coolant leak, the recliner was not the one ordered, the couch was different, we got a 4 door refer as opposed to the 2 door with pantry ordered and they threw in an entertainment center. Go figure???

utahclaimjumper said:

As a comparison,, walk thru stick built homes and try to objectfully compare quality items.

Click to expand...

Drag that stick home down the Highway for 1000 miles first then have a quality comparison. Truth is they could and should be done better but the bottom line of any company rules. Some choose to pay a bit more now and hope it doesn not come back some choose to go fast a cheap now and hope they can minimise the warranty costs. Which is right I don't know but I can see which are still in buisness and which are not.

wayne

I agree with Gary that, although they could all do better, these are  very complicated systems and problems are a part of the game.  A few  years ago we spent the winter in Palm Springs, Ca at one of those  "lifestyles of the rich and famous" places.  We were surrounded by  Newells, Marathons, etc.  We learned that even those megabuck coaches  have a long list of troubles... but the difference was that the mfg sent  techs out on site to take care of them! 

Click to expand...

We purchased our current coach about the same time that the Nathans purchased one of their Prevosts. There was some similarity; both new, both over 40', both 2 slides, both diesel pushers. Fit, finish, components and cost were very far apart. I saw Terry's first punch list and it was twice as long as ours.

Maybe Gary was twice as picky as you are Bernie.>>>Dan

I get they have more problems due to lots of travel on rough roads

I think my MH is pretty great

But I see others with serious problems and getting poor service.  Most people go through express bays with a few problems and rave about the service, but these are the minor issues we all deal with and expect.

It is how the larger problems are handled or how difficult it is to get service I find a problem.  That does not seem to be discussed by the cheer leaders and I am pretty sure tiffin is not the only one with cheerleaders.

There seems to be a need for objective evaluation of all the MH manufacturers IMO

utahclaimjumper said:

Maybe Gary was twice as picky as you are Bernie.>>>Dan

Click to expand...

It was Terry (Nathan), not Gary. But I saw the list and was in his coach and he had twice as many issues than I did. And it wasn't because he wrote using larger lettering.

I think it would be rather difficult to get an objective opinion about the quality of a motorhome as many of the components are actually supplied by another manufacturer.  If your Atwood leveling jacks break down, for instance, that is an Atwood problem not a RV manufacturer problem. 
I have been to a degree a Tiffin cheerleader and my opinion is based on 2 1/2 years of owning a Tiffin and having had two motorhomes of another brand.  This one has had far fewer issues.  I have been unhappy with the windows, many of which fogged up, but Tiffin did replace them at no cost to me.
You are correct - the wait for service at Red Bay is deplorable.  Some folks don't seem to mind it as they perceive it as a social time.  I don't want to spend my time there.  Fortunately I live only 75 miles away and I could go get my place in line and come home and do my waiting there.  We have an appointment in November which we made last year, just in case.  Until we take our motorhome out this weekend I'm not sure we are even going to need the appointment.  I think people enjoy the friendliness and southern hospitality of Tiffin and Red Bay.  The fact that people can reach Bob Tiffin is another plus.  When you drive through the main street of Red Bay it is not uncommon for passersby to wave at you.  This is the sort of thing which sells Tiffin.  Probably a bit corny but it sells motorhomes.  And if I were in the market for another motorhome I'd make the same choice again.  Hope that doesn't sound like cheerleading - it's not meant to be.

BritChris said:

  If your Atwood leveling jacks break down, for instance, that is an Atwood problem not a RV manufacturer problem. 

Click to expand...

Afraid I have to respectfully disagree.  It was the RV manufacturer who selected their suppliers and should stand behind that decision and not point fingers.  The quality of the chain is only as good as the weakest link.  Part of a successful manufacturing operation has got to include sourcing vendors who will contribute to the value you're offering your customer. 

Rick

Hi
Some refer to my 2000, 30 ft. Flair as an entry level MH.  It's not as
fancy as a Holiday Rambler and  I'm ok with that.  At first I got the
impression that it may not be as relaiable or have any quality
being a lower end model.

By reading the forums,  I'm beginning to realize that my MH,  that I
just bought for $ 20K,  might be as reliable as some of the expensive
ones that were bought new and that many of the componets are similer.

I feel better about my purchase.  Just a thought.
Fred from Pasco, WA. 

frederick said:

Hi
Some refer to my 2000, 30 ft. Flair as an entry level MH.  It's not as
fancy as a Holiday Rambler and  I'm ok with that. 

Click to expand...

This is part of my point.  A lot of MH sales are based on bling, tv, floor plan, etc and have nothing to do with quality.

Tiffin fans do not seem to care that their windows fog, the floor beneath the wet bay falls apart and need replacement, some years of production require a new roof and apparently 2 trips to red bay.  I understand this is not a problem if you live 75 miles from red bay.

I also suspect the other MH manufacturers are not perfect either.  Their needs to be some sort of gathering of information of the real issues otherwise you will here 80% of the people who go through an express bay with minor issues in 2-3 days say a manufacturer is wonderful. 

I think a measure of how more significant problems are handled is not communicated on any forum

I think Red is right - Tiffin doesn't build them any better than most. They just stand behind them better. I still think Tiffin is one of the top choices in motorhomes, though.

One of the appalling things is the complacency of the RV manufacturers with their suppliers. They really aren't doing much of anything to get improved components and they are frightfully transparent on warranty issues with their suppliers. It does not appear they have much clout with their suppliers, and the suppliers know they have few competitors and none who are doing anything different, so the RV manufacturer has limited choices on where to get stuff.  Is a Dometic fridge better than a Norcold? Atwood better than Suburban?  Coleman better than a Dometic a/c? All of those companies have had some major duds over the years.

Winnebago, at least, works to develop new and improved solutions for some things, but they are stuck with the same major components as the rest of them.

Just as a comparison, when a trucking company buys a new class 8 tractor, they don't let it run over the road for several months.  They keep it running local so that they can get all the bugs out of it.  Never take a brand new class 8 tractor thru a DOT inspection, because it will not pass!  And we have the same problems with brand new motorhomes

In 1965-70 I worked for Freightliner Corp., pomona, Ca. building trucks. The highlight of my tenure there was an event with one of the major buyers of fleet trucks of the day out of Texas. In those days Freightliner built only custom trucks to the buyers specs. We built a custom prototype for this buyer and prepped it for inspection prior to a 150 unit run, the buyers, and our company elite, climbed aboard for the test drive, out the drive and over a set of rail road tracks, both windshields promptly fell out and were run over, then the truck would not go into reverse and all had to walk two blocks back to the plant..>>>Dan

Im my dealings with motorhome owners, it always seems that Tiffen owners are really the most loyal, and it's truely due to the factory service that is provided in Red Bay.

Winnebago has tried to some extent to simulate and match this loyalty by providing the same type service facilities in Forest City.

Both of these providers have promoted this to some extent in the their sales and loyalty among the future RV buyers, and in my opinon, to very good success.