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Author Topic: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?  (Read 7712 times)

GeorgeT

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How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« on: November 17, 2010, 11:06:24 AM »
Is there a set markup percentage or is it what the dealer feels the market will bear.  We found a used class A, 2003 Tiffin Phaeton that was listed for $103,900, and stated that the price was reduced.  Then, two days ago it dropped to $92,900.  We haven't gone to view the rig yet, but I am sure it needs tires.  ?  I intend to ask for all hoses, belts, filters, fluids and driving lights to be replaced as well.  So, my question is, how much more do you think I can negotiate for, and what initial offer should I start with?

http://www.mcphails.on.ca/used_item.php?inv=29090-1A


Thanks

AverageBOB

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2010, 01:47:20 PM »
The tv will probably need a converter box as well or replaced in general, all are negotiating points.
Start with minimum. Offer say... 85 if they say no then slowly work up and mention faults as you go and would do with ANY used vehicle.
If a pigeon had his brains

It would fly sideways.

scottydl

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2010, 05:41:23 PM »
And although Tiffin's are a GREAT product, what has made you decide to potentially make an offer on this one?  Make sure you do all your research and shop multiple places (online included) to get an idea of where the market is at for any make/model you are interested in.  Check book prices at www.nadaguides.com and do not add in any of the options when pricing used RV's.  You'll get Low/Average/High Retail amounts, and with the current market you should not be offering any more than Low Retail unless it's really an exceptional rig that needs nothing.
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
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Gary RV Roamer

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2010, 05:58:46 PM »
Use the NADA online price guide (www.nadaguides.com) as a guide and shoot for low retail pricing (You have to look under Allegro to find the Phaeton in the NADA Guide).  $103,900 was an inflated price of an '03 Phaeton, as you can see by the subsequent reductions. $92k is getting closer, depending on what size and condition it is.

What he will take depends solely on what he has in it (what he paid for it) and his operating margins. Smaller dealers usually discount less, but the owner of a small business might make a decision to get some cash anyway he can, so make a low offer and see how it goes.
Gary
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SargeW

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2010, 09:01:15 PM »
Car dealers and RV dealers alike both make a LOT of money on used vehicles.  They will make a lot more on used vehicles than on the new ones that they sell. That is because they will pay rock bottom prices for their trades, then mark them up like crazy.  They will tell you that they have to because of all the work they put into them to get them ready to re-sell.  That is not usually the case. If a dealer thinks that the trade is too beat up, they will push it off to a "discount" dealer.

So don't feel bad at all about grinding on the dealer for your price. I let my wife do it, she is a master. I just sit and don't say anything, it drives them nuts!
Marty--
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RoyM

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2010, 11:47:47 PM »
When we looked at our current tv, I asked politely about a new windshield, worn wipers had scratched it. No problem. There was some damage to the box, it had been towing a goose neck and inexperience showed  ;D, I asked DW can we live with this salesperson jumped in oh no sir no problem it was properly repaired and painted. We paid the asking price which was fair and got everything fixed.
I worked in retail sales on commission  in a former life and got a hardening of the attitudes when some one tried to work me over. If the customer was reasonable I would do what I could to sweeten the deal with add ons such as free delivery or a complimentary service. If he/she ground me I gave no more than was absolutely necessary, even gave them a card thanked them for coming in and walked away.
I would definitely ask for the tires and whatever else it needs to be road worthy. A LOF (lube, oil, filter) along with a thorough inspection would not be unreasonable unless you are buying from a mud lot as is. At 93 big ones that would be scary.
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GeorgeT

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 04:23:12 AM »
All are great points, and please, keep the advice/suggestions flowing!

We really like the Tiffin product, and the Phaeton is the #1 selling RV in the US, so there have to be some very good qualities for this unit.  I have spent quite a bit of time looking at many different manufacturers, and keep coming back to a Tiffin.  All the online forums rave about Tiffin products.  The rep I spoke to at Lazydays in Florida couldn't say enough good things about the Tiffin lines. For our first class A I think this is a great choice.  We will make mistakes, and I'd rather learn on a good used model so that our next unit can be chosen based upon our own experiences.

Here in Ontario there is only one Tiffin dealer, McPhails, and they have a stellar reputation.  A down side to one dealership is the lack of local competition controlling price.  So, we have looked at other authorized Tiffin dealerships in Canada and find a few in Alberta and British Columbia.  When I searched their respective online inventories, there were not many used Tiffins to choose from.  So, I searched major US dealerships and found many to choose from.  The down side to purchasing in the US for a Canadian are the import taxes. 

The tax that gets us is the Provincial sales tax, like your state tax.  Ours is called the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) and it hits us up for 13% of the purchase price.  Quick math says that on a $100k purchase all sales taxes and import fees will add up to ~$15k.  That's quite a bit.

Here is the Nada guide pricing for a 2003 Tiffin Phaeton:

 TOTAL PRICE       Base $75,260       Average retail  $90,750

So, if you add in the import tax, the base price becomes almost the reduced price, without the hassles of importing.

Keeping all this in mind, I don't want to take every last ounce of profit from the dealer.  That builds bad blood and you will pay for it every time you deal with them in the future. 

So, with everything said here, do you think I am being reasonable to request all new tires,  all hoses, belts, filters, fluids and driving lights to be replaced, plus any repairs that need to be done, for $85k?  We plan to hire a RV mechanic to do a thorough exam prior to signing the final paperwork.

Thanks.

Gary RV Roamer

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 06:22:33 AM »
No worries - you aren't going to "take" anything from the dealer he is not prepared to give in the deal. Make your offer and see what happens.
Gary
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2004 American Tradition
2007 GMC Acadia
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COMer

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 06:23:21 AM »
You asked about discounts on used rigs and we have an experience to share.  We stopped at a delaer last weekend (in FL) and looked at some pretty late-model units.  After getting quotes of what they were asking, I went home and checked wih NADA.com.  I was surprised to note that some of the prices they quoted were well below the NADA listings.  I would guess they were at wholesale or even a bit lower.  I don't know if that was one dealer or a trend but perhaps sales are soft enough that dealers are discounting.  I would not be reluctant to suggest a price below what you think he would consider, if you do it in a non-abrasive manner.  Always easier to go up than down.  Good luck.
John & Darla
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workingtorv

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2010, 07:12:27 PM »
Not that you asked but.....I am also from Ontario and I am aware that you are entitled to pay the tax at the border (which is equal to sales tax which you don't pay twice) when importing the vehicle and you do need to pay the A/C tax 100.00 and then 195.00 importing fees + I believe at the max 400.00  to have it certified which means you take it to your local Canadian Tire Certified garage who has the contract to certify imported vehicles to meet Canadian laws before registration takes place.  I am not sure if it is more than daytime running lights there must be more they do I am just not aware.    There is no duty to be paid on recreational vehicles.   

After saying all of that, IMHO - I find the prices in the US to be far cheaper even on top of paying the above mentioned fees and I would do more research before just having one dealer to purchase from...

If you are interested go to www.riv.ca I think you will find all you need to know there.   One other item of concern is that any outstanding recalls must be dealt with prior to importing the vehicle and there are makes and models that are "Inadmissable" so you do want to be sure you are trying to import something that can be imported before purchasing.   It may be worth it to you in the end to look to the South if you can't get a decent deal near your home..
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parttymer

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2010, 01:44:19 PM »
Before we purchased our '03 HR Endeavor just about a year ago, it came down to it and a Tiffin just as you describe. They were both in Houston (not PPL..we didn't care for that place). Ultimately our decision came down to the dealer and what he was willing to offer. We took our trade in with us to Houston and actually hooked up and stayed at the dealer while they got the Endeavor ready. During the 4 days we were there, we were allowed to completely inspect the mh and to make a list of things that needed attention. In addition, we paid $300.00 for a certified RV inspector (just like getting a home inspected). We came up with 3 legal size pages of items to be corrected. The dealer did every single one, including having new tires installed at his expense. I went with him to the tire place when it was finished just to get the practice of driving the coach, so I saw the work order for the tires. 6 tires installed came to $3100.00. Also, there was a big crack in the driver's side windshield and the Houston dealer told us there was no way he could get a new one and install it before we had to leave. He arranged to have it shipped to our dealer in Illinois and paid for the installation. When we stayed in the HR the night before we left, we discovered the toilet leaked. The dealer had it replaced right away with a cheap one he had in stock. Then he sent a replacement that matched the one that leaked to our dealer in Illinois and paid for it to be installed. We ordered a power awning for over the entry door to replace the manual one that was standard. That also got shipped to Illinois and the installation was paid for by the dealer in Houston. Pretty good service, I'd say. On our list was a cracked assembly that housed the dock light on the side of the coach. We both missed it not being replaced when we did our final walk through. We called after we got home, and they promptly sent a replacement.

On the other hand, our inspection of the Tiffin revealed bad tires, and the dealer only agreed to replace them after much discussion. There were other minor issues that he tried to get us to overlook.

Our comfort level from the used RV dealer that we eventually purchased from made a lot of difference in our decision.

Also, the asking price for both units, a year ago, was well below $92,000 USD. 

« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 01:49:06 PM by parttymer »
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GeorgeT

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2010, 02:31:59 PM »
I did call Canada Border Services and they referred me to the website for clarification.  It seems that Ontario MAY be exempt from the H0T on RV's.  It also states that vehicles manufactured in North America, may qualify for a zero duty fee.  However, the person I spoke to on the phone did stress that it was up to the agent in charge.

http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5048-eng.html#s5

1275gtsport

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2010, 02:36:24 PM »
Just so you know you don't HAVE to take it to Canadian Tire for the RIV. I found this site that details someones trip through the import process. it was 5 years ago and the info may have changed.

however there are many good tips that would make the import process easier.

good luck.

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/bordercrossing.html


Freedom First

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 11:54:18 AM »
Our comfort level from the used RV dealer that we eventually purchased from made a lot of difference in our decision.

Wow.  That dealer went above and beyond the call of duty, so to speak, which is exactly the kind of dealer I'm looking for.   Can you share the name of that dealer with us, please?  If they have an online site, I'd sure like to check it out.  TIA.

parttymer

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2010, 09:06:07 PM »
I'm not sure what the protocol on here is for endorsing one product or dealer or service over another. One person's opinion isn't always shared by all. Unless someone from the forum staff says otherwise, I would prefer to reply privately to your inquiry. No offense. I just don't want to break a rule. I hope you understand.

By the way, we hope everyone has a safe and fulfilled Thanksgiving holiday.

Stan & Becky
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scottydl

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, 08:23:15 AM »
There are no rules restricting your endorsement of a product of dealership.  In fact we WANT people to share their opinions (other than just tirade rants with no purpose), for the benefit of all.  We have two sections just for that:

 - Campground Reviews
 - Service & Repair Reviews

A dealership recommendation would fit well in the 2nd category.  We know everyone has their own experiences and perceptions of products and services, but member experiences are what boards like these are all about!
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
1994 Thor Residency 3500 owned 2007-2012
Now looking for the next perfect RV...

parttymer

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Re: How much markup do dealers add to used RV's?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 06:38:36 PM »
Thanks for the information. I have posted in the designated thread.
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