Electrical system trouble

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Borglord

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Nov 21, 2010
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Hi All! I have a 2004 fleetwood Prowler TT and have been noticing a problem with the 12v service. I have the TT plugged into my 30amp service at home and all the 120v works fine. but after a time my lights will dim down to almost nothing before the converter will kick in and charge them up. Sometimes if I turn on a heavy load appliance like the microwave or the space heater, it will start charging also. I checked the water in the batteries and added a cup full of distilled water to each and it takes some time for them to discharge. So I dont think the batteries are bad. If I am having converter problems what can I do about it short of replacing it? Also where is the converter at, on a model 270 FQS? I haven't been able to find any info on the make and location of the converter. are they near the fuse box? or maybe in the back bottom of the entertainment center. I think I hear a soft hum from there. any help would be appreciated. Hope someone can help.
 
Borglord:

You have presented an interesting problem for discusion/resolution.
I'll be the first to start process of resolution/understanding.

The noise you hear (you say "start charging") might be the blower part of "charger/converter". The addition current being drawn (Microwave use) may be sensed, or  temperature change of unit might turn blower on.... ether or.....
Lights (DC) dimming while batteries still hooked up does not make sense to me.....

I'll sit back and listen (watch).....
Good luck.


 
Borglord:

I can also tell you I know my converter has a fuse in it you may want to check it also had to change my converter two years ago when we were traveling in Halifax area it just quit on us hope this will help you :'(
 
It is likely your converter is integrated with the 120v load center  (breaker panel). YTou may have somethign that looks like this:
http://www.parallaxpower.com/7300/7300pwrcntr.pdf

Are you saying the 12v lights get really dim and then come back on bright when you hear the converter "kick in"?  Is it just momentary of do the lights stay dim for minutes?
 
Thanks for the reply PPL. My wife and I notices the light issue more in the evening when we are sitting down watching TV or reading a book. the lights will slowly go dim as the batteries are discharged. I would think the converter at this time isn,t providing 12v power. Then as if a switch is turned on or when I turn on a 120v appliance the lights will brighten up and any 12v fan will speed up as if the batteries are full. I would assume the converter has turned on to charge the batteries back up. I doen't know why the appliances would do that unless the jolt from the load activates a relay or something. I looked at the PDF file ,Gary, and dont think its the same unit. there isn't a vent any where around the electrical panel except for the furnace vent which does conserne me as almost any power supply needs to be vented from the heat or ffffiiiissssstt  :'(. The wireing enters through the back of the panel so it is possible that the converter could be behind it. As far as the noise is conserned, its a transformer hum I hear in the bottom of the entertainment center behind the back paneling or at lease I think it is. Its very faint. Hard to beleave that it would be 15 feet away from the electrical panel though if it is there. I attached a picture of the electrical panel loction.
 

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I would look in the bottom of the pantry and see if there is an access panel.  The whole bottom may be removable.  If so the converter could be behind the electrical panel.
 
It does sound like faulty converter/charger, in that it should kick on long before the lights even begin to get dim. I can't think of any connection between turning on another appliance and getting the converter to start up, though. I can't help but think we are missing something here.

Fleetwood (Prowler) was using mostly WFCO brand chargers in 2004, so that may be the brand you have. Typically in small trailers it is part of the main power board, but they make separate ones too. You can trace the wires from the battery to find it. Or look where the hum is, since converters almost always have some hum, a well as fan noise after they warm up a bit.
 
Turning on another device probably causes a momentary low surge that triggers the circuit to get the converter going. If you get a cheap digital meter and hook it to the battery or a 12vdc wire somewhere you'll be able to see whats happening. All the old converters I've had charged the battery constantly. I never had one that turned off. I did notice when I had an Attwood converter that the lights were brighter when the trailer was plugged into shore power.

Here are a few numbers to help figure it out.
11.7-11.9 is pretty much fully discharged
12.6 is a fully charged battery after a short rest. (they will read higher for a short time)
13.6 to about 14.5 when charging. Above 14.5 starts to get pretty hard on the battery.
13.2 if you have a smart charger or a newer type charger. This maintains the battery without boiling it.

As you can see the voltage range isn't that wide so it's pretty hard to read on an analog meter.
 
As you can see the voltage range isn't that wide so it's pretty hard to read on an analog meter.
Click to expand...

rbell:

For some reason those words "woke me up or something"..... became profound.
Wow! I never thought about ANALOG vs DIGITAL when measuring my batteries using a Harbor Freight $5.00 "digital" meter.

In the fifty's while in the service, "analog" meters (PSM-6) were all that were available. Same for the sixty's, while attending tech schools, we were required to buy a sophisticated analog meter, and early in my working career, ANALOG meters also. The first "Digital" meters I can remember were LARGE vacuum tube devices.
I do rely a lot on my $5.00 meter.... mounting one at my "inverter" inside the trailer to keep me aware of battery health. And because voltage changes are so slight but meaningful, and my memory fragile, I must keep a chart of values and meaning close by also. 

More words closer to OP's (I think) subject: Battery maintenance
In past, as I boondocked mostly on 30 day outings, the 3 or 4 hour use of Honda 3000W generator will not allow charger/controller to "fully" charge the three batteries I carry. With a new trailer and charger/controller (WF-8955) which has a 'boost" (14.4V) mode, I'm hoping I will not have to buy "special" battery charger to resolve batteries becoming discharged.

I may have to "disconnect" batteries from trailer with knife switch, plug separate battery charger (8 amp capability) into generator, and fast charge batteries each time I run generator to make coffee or use microwave to cook. 




 
 
PSM-6  :)

Now that brings back memories. Wouldn't go near an airplane without one. Loved 'em!  :) 

I was in the early days of USAF, but our test equipment was marked "Property of the U.S. Navy." (Bugged me!  :(  )

Ray D  :D 
 
Ray D said:
PSM-6  :)

Now that brings back memories. Wouldn't go near an airplane without one. Loved 'em!  :) 

I was in the early days of USAF, but our test equipment was marked "Property of the U.S. Navy." (Bugged me!  :(  )

Ray D  :D
Click to expand...
So that's where my test equipment went?!!! (USN ret)
 
I may have to "disconnect" batteries from trailer with knife switch, plug separate battery charger (8 amp capability) into generator, and fast charge batteries each time I run generator to make coffee or use microwave to cook. 
Click to expand...

???  The WFCO-8955 will charge the batteries faster than an 8 Amp external charger. It has a total capacity of 55 amps and can charge the batteries with at least 30A if they can accept it that fast. The problem with charging time is that after the initial charging, the batteries won't accept the charge current as fast as the charger can deliver it, so you need to allow adequate time regardless of the charger in use.
 
Gary:
Thanks for info..... I'm just waiting till March of next year to take off and "test" (enjoy) this trailer set up. The thought, question  that enters my mind is: are the circuits for DC lights separate from Battery while charger in "boost" (14.4) mode?

Ray D:

Were you in service (USAF) earlier than 1955? The PSM-6's I used in 1955 to 1959 were black, and I do not remember the words NAVY on them. Of course that does not mean they were not on them.
And to molaker:
Honest..., they gave meter to me to use.....

 
...are the circuits for DC lights separate from Battery while charger in "boost" (14.4) mode?
Click to expand...
No. The charger may have a separate output circuit, but the battery is tied into the main 12v system and any voltage applied to the battery is basically applied everywhere. Yes, high voltage will shorten the life of incandescent bulbs a bit. And may afftec t sensitive equipment if you have any. Most automotive components are designed to handle 14.4v, though. Engine alternators frequently put out that much voltages.
 
Were you in service (USAF) earlier than 1955?
Click to expand...

I was in 3/56 to 3/60. Our PSM-6 s were gray. Never saw a black one. That sounds like an AF issue PSM-6. Ours were marked Navy, as was most of the rest of our test equipment. We made a lot of our own equipment from Heathkit. I made a VTVM. When I got out, they let me keep it. Probably not a lot of people here who remember VTVMs.

Ray D  ;D
 
My first VTVM was a Heathkit. I've got a $15 meter, I think from Sears. It reads voltage as accurate as the $300 Fluke meter I have. But some of the other functions don't work as well.

BTW I was in the USAF from 62-66
 
I am having a very similar issue with my 2006 Everest.  I have gone through two brand new deep cycle 750 amp batteries in the last six months thinking that the batteries may have been defective. I took my fifth wheel back to dealer where I purchased and they advised that I needed two batteries (Group 24) on board.  They insist that the converter/charger is working properly (13.25 volts).  I am having to hook an external 10 amp charger to the battery to keep appliances running, expecially the central heat.  The ignitor will not work unless the charger is hooked up to give it that full, 12v supply.  It is going back to the dealer tomorrow for the third time!!!!
 
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