I was online just looking at RV's of all types and brands. I noticed several that listed there insulation R-Value for walls, ceiling & floors. I don't think I have ever seen this information on Winnebago products. I know it's a foam material, but that alone doesn't mean it has a high R-Value as all types of foam are not equal. With more and more campgrounds putting in electric meters and propane costs increasing I think the R-Value in these RV's is becoming a factor we need to know. Does anyone know for fact the R-Value of the foam Winnebago uses?? And is the foam they use today the same R-Value they used say 5 or 10 years ago?? I understand the windshield area is a very large source of heat loss in cold weather. But I'm talking about the R-Value in walls, ceiling and floors mainly.
Insulation R-Value Question
- Thread starter howdymi
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John Canfield
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As far as I know, Winnebago doesn't publish R-values for whatever reason. I remember being impressed when I did a Travel Supreme factory tour - they had an optional insulation package that probably rivaled some stick houses. I think Newmar publishes R-values.
The windshield area is notorious for heat loss or heat gain depending on the season. Our MCD shade for the windshield is a considerable help in adding a little insulation (dead air space) and we don't have as much of a problem with condensation now as before.
The windshield area is notorious for heat loss or heat gain depending on the season. Our MCD shade for the windshield is a considerable help in adding a little insulation (dead air space) and we don't have as much of a problem with condensation now as before.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
I think the insulation R-value is a relatively insignificant factor in RV heat loss/gain. With that big windshield, numerous windows (with at best just thin dual panes), multiple ceiling vents and skylights, thin sidewalls painted in dark colors and 3-4 slideouts, the whole thing leaks like a sieve. There is ample opportunity here for a quantum leap in design to a much more thermally efficient RV, but the manufacturers aren't jumping in and the market isn't demanding it yet. Pretty colors and bigger tvs is still what sells a high end rig.
Wizard46
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Some like Forrest River did offer a winterized model. Full under floor insulation and belly pan. Had it on a previous Cardinal fifth wheel. Don't remember if they published R values but the side walls was the same on all models.
Also Gary, add to your list of what sells, Mirrors
Also Gary, add to your list of what sells, Mirrors
FrontrangeRVer
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Winnebago roof assemblies are 4" thick and while they are a fairly good designed product, the insulating values are unacceptable in my opinion. I have been an outspoken critic of the insulation in the Winnie construction, and maybe that's why most (if not all) the 2011 Winnebago models went to a 6" thick roof assembly. I have seen first hand a cut away roof (dont ask) and Winnie just rough cuts the ceiling ducts into the existing styrofoam roof.....you loose even more R-value by this cheap method.
No doubt Winnie doesn't publish the R-values of their roofs/sidewalls because both Newmar and Travel Supreme (of course) would have shamed Winnie's R-values. :
EDIT:.....the floor? We will be taking our unit to Breckenridge CO in December, and will have rugs on the floor so if we get our feet wet, they won't STICK to the ice cold floor like your tongue to a cold metal pole outside.
No doubt Winnie doesn't publish the R-values of their roofs/sidewalls because both Newmar and Travel Supreme (of course) would have shamed Winnie's R-values. :
EDIT:.....the floor? We will be taking our unit to Breckenridge CO in December, and will have rugs on the floor so if we get our feet wet, they won't STICK to the ice cold floor like your tongue to a cold metal pole outside.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Our previous coach had 4" roof and floor and this one has 6" roof & 4' floors, but the sidewalls have only 1.25" space for foam insulation, so who cares? And the slides are only 1".
Yeah, mirrors are de rigeur. They make the interior seem larger. So do numerous windows, even though they are bad for heat transfer. But who would want to be cooped up in a small, windowless box?
Yeah, mirrors are de rigeur. They make the interior seem larger. So do numerous windows, even though they are bad for heat transfer. But who would want to be cooped up in a small, windowless box?
I received a note from someone that saw this R-Value post. In a phone conversation today that was very interesting I learned several things about R-Value and insulation products I didn't know. But just picking out a couple things from the conversation today that I found interesting was the estimated R-value of a Winne ceiling based on 4" is R-13, Walls R- 4.6. On the other hand the Crossroads Cruiser 5th wheel has a ceiling with R-27, Walls R- 15 and floors R-28. And Crossroads is not a high dollar unit. No wonder Winnie doesn't want to talk about their R-Values. I for one would be willing to pay extra (a fair price) for an upgrade to the R-value of the Crossroads. I know the R-values in our next RV will be high on the list of things wanted. I'm not saying Crossroads is any better or worst that a Winnie product, just that if Crossroads can do it and not price themselves out of the market why can't Winnebago do the same. Winnie used to be a leader, now there not even keeping up.
John Canfield
Site Team
howdymi said:
Keeping up with what? They're still in business and financially healthy by producing product that people purchase.
Having said that, their product planners are busy focusing on the floorplans and bling-bling to sell product and have moved away from those attributes I value so highly like IFS and a side radiator. This is understandable - I imagine many shoppers don't know or care about the technical differences. How many more units is Winnie going to sell with R-25 ceiling insulation compared to R-15 ceiling insulations? Maybe a few, but that is not a high-payoff business strategy.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
No wonder my coach is so tall! And five steps up the entry way!
FrontrangeRVer
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I measured once, and if I remember correctly, the Winnie Class A floor is 3" thick.....that includes a 1" styrofoam insulation sheet sandwitched between two sheets of plywood, floor covering and metal floor bottom.
John Canfield
Site Team
FrontrangeRVer said:
Mark - if your floor is 3" thick, you are a very lucky guy
- mine is about Attachments
FrontrangeRVer
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Oh gosh...I was hoping I was a lucky guy, so I went out and measured mine, and sure enough, my memory had failed me and John is correct. My floor looks and measures the same as John's floor. Thanks for the picture!
No wonder the floor is so cold up here in the Winter!
No wonder the floor is so cold up here in the Winter!
John Canfield
Site Team
FrontrangeRVer said:
That's why I have started to make notes of anything important I need to remember :
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Mine is about 1.5" at the engine access panel and the floorboards by the driver seat, but around 3.5" in the main flooring area over the bays.
taoshum
Well-known member
If you put in more insulation, you gotta lose something somewhere... storage, height, ground clearance, interior space. It's all a tradeoff when the exterior envelope is fixed. Plus it's weight you have to carry around all the time so whatever you save in propane/electricity you probably burn up in fuel. A reflective coating on the roof will cut down on the summer a/c costs but cost more to heat in the winter. I guess if you want huge amounts of insulation, no leaks, tight seals, low enegy bills and efficient operations you picked the wrong hobby. They are small and space eficient though, so even if the insulation is thin, it doesn't take that much energy to heat it or cool it since it's small, compared to a 2000 sq ft house. Blinds, padded snakes for the floor and a few fans help too. Besides, it's great compared to a tent...
taoshum said:
I'm not a young man but the thinking here is old school. It's not more insulation thickness that's needed, only a different type of insulation that could double or triple the R rating with the added weight and cost not worth talking about. It's not like we have coaches with 4" of fiberglass in the ceiling and would have to drop the ceiling down 4" to double the R- value, cost and weight. There are insulations on the market today that have unbelievable R-Value per inch. Of course when they get to unbelievable so does the cost.
taoshum
Well-known member
howdymi said:
You're right... call NASA, I understand they have lots of used tiles from the front of the space shuttle that are great insulation and they are having a garage sale pretty soon. There are limits in any case, and regardless of the quality of the insulation, it won't fix the windows, the leaks or the weight... old school or new age state of the art. There is a fundamental law of physics that applies here... it's called the "Conservation of Crap". If you squeeze some crap out of one place, guess what, it pops up somewhere else.
roadking52
Active member
Why worry about the R value of the walls when the entrance door has an R value of essentially zero....a piece of aluminum on the outside and a sheet of plastic on the inside of a metal frame. There's a real insulation upgrade opportunity. Wouldn't hurt the sound transmission qualities either. I filled mine with pink styrofoam wall insulation and expanding foam.
John Canfield
Site Team
There's an idea...
