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Author Topic: "An RV"?  (Read 13517 times)

DonTom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2010, 08:37:25 AM »
Jeez, did everyone here fail English? The A or An rule is not written in stone, there are exceptions. There are lots of examples where you use An instead of A when the first letter is a consonants that sounds like a vowel. You would not say "I am going to the doctor for a xray". It would be an xray.
You must be using Margi's alphabet,  Ex-ray!
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"I will meet you in an hour", not a hour.
Yeah, but a silent "H" is the one exception that is fine, according to my dictionary.
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The R in RV is pronounced are, so therefore the forum motto is grammatically correct. However if this place is really the friendliest I would hate to see the most hostile.
If this debate is the hottest one in this forum, we have very little to worry about, as Margi says.

BTW, are you all saying that my dictionary is wrong??? Again:

"an 1 (indef.art. The form of a used before words beginning with a vowel or with an unpronounced h: an elephant; an hour."   

                                    -Don- SSF, CA
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 09:04:42 AM by DonTom »
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L

Eight motorcycles:
Original owner of:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank

seilerbird

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2010, 09:02:04 AM »
Yes I am saying your dictionary is wrong. The A and An rule is not a spelling rule it is a sound rule. You don't go by the actual letter, you go by the sound of the letter.


http://www.english-zone.com/grammar/a-anlessn.html

Tom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2010, 09:12:55 AM »
This topic has been moved to the 'English spelling and grammar' board. Maybe we can get a an one some answer there  ;D
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DonTom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2010, 09:18:17 AM »
Yes I am saying your dictionary is wrong. The A and An rule is not a spelling rule it is a sound rule. You don't go by the actual letter, you go by the sound of the letter.


http://www.english-zone.com/grammar/a-anlessn.html
If we use Margi's alphabet, then we can almost always use "an" instead of "a"! But "R" Doesn't sound like a vowel to me! Neither does the "a" in "are" even though the "a" there is.

vow·el n. Abbr. v. 1. A speech sound created by the relatively free passage of breath through the larynx and oral cavity, usually forming the most prominent and central sound of a syllable. 2. A letter, such as a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y in the English alphabet, that represents a vowel.

How does "R" (even in "Are" where the a is silent) sound like "a, e, i, o, u" ?


                                               -Don-
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 09:22:48 AM by DonTom »
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L

Eight motorcycles:
Original owner of:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank

BernieD

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2010, 09:34:34 AM »
I agree with Tom (Seiler), I go by sound. I choose between "a" and "an" automatically when speaking, I don't stop to think which is more grammatically correct. I would guess that most of us do the same. When I say "an RV" it feels comfortable, when I say "a RV" it doesn't.
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

Tom and Margi

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2010, 09:37:49 AM »
My sentiments exactly, Bernie.  ;D

Don - The "aaah" sound of R is what makes using "an" more correct.  It's a different sound than rug, robot, rectangle, radio, etc., which would use the "a".

I'm getting a headache.  8)

Margi

Marc L

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2010, 09:41:41 AM »
Phonetic pronunciation of the letter R is: \ˈär\
Marc...

Molaker

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2010, 10:08:12 AM »
Grammar "rules" were developed to ensure communication was understood - and for old maid school teachers to harp on.  If "an" is understood as used in this case, then 1/2 the job has been accomplished.  Now all we have to do it satisfy the old maid school teachers.
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
U.S. Navy (Ret)
2014 Winnebago ERA 70X 24' class B Sprinter chassis

DonTom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2010, 10:08:32 AM »
My sentiments exactly, Bernie.  ;D

Don - The "aaah" sound of R is what makes using "an" more correct.  It's a different sound than rug, robot, rectangle, radio, etc., which would use the "a".

I'm getting a headache.  8)

Margi
But to me "R" only sounds like "R" and even "ARE" sounds like "R". There's even no sound with that "a" in "are".

But I see I am outnumbered. So it should be changed to "a" because:

"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform."
--Mark Twain ;D

-Don-
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L

Eight motorcycles:
Original owner of:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank

Wendy

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2010, 11:32:53 AM »
"ARE" sounds like "R".

It's the other way around, "R" sounds like "ARE." And since you are totally outnumbered, you might as well give up.
 
Now, if you really want to start a grammar argument, ask about where the period and comma go when there are quotation marks !!
 
Wendy
Wendy, Mike, and Gordon
~We can't be lost because we don't care where we're going~
Here's where we are http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=2276
2015 Allegro Ooen Road
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Tom and Margi

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 11:40:30 AM »
Good idea, Wendy!  I could really learn from that discussion as I'm never really sure what's proper.

Margi

Wendy

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2010, 11:49:50 AM »
Good idea, Wendy!  I could really learn from that discussion as I'm never really sure what's proper.

Margi

Proper (in American English) is that periods and commas go INSIDE the quotation marks, always (look at newspapers, magazines, books). But I'm sure there will be some here who will argue otherwise. And because of computer use and the internet, I think it's a rule that is changing....you want to send someone a website link and put it in quotes, you certainly don't want to include a period or comma that isn't part of the URL. You can get around that by using single quotes or putting the URL in italics or bold.
 
Wendy
Wendy, Mike, and Gordon
~We can't be lost because we don't care where we're going~
Here's where we are http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=2276
2015 Allegro Ooen Road
1973 Sunshine Yellow VW Bug

Marc L

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2010, 12:09:42 PM »
Language evolves (and/or deteriorate) over time at different rate and in different ways depending where you are at given period in time.  Very hard these days to say what's proper and what's not.
Marc...

BernieD

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2010, 03:08:09 PM »
Language evolves (and/or deteriorate) over time at different rate and in different ways depending where you are at given period in time.  Very hard these days to say what's proper and what's not.

So true, you can now refrudiate.
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

Molaker

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2010, 03:20:07 PM »
So true, you can now refrudiate.
Now that's funny!
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
U.S. Navy (Ret)
2014 Winnebago ERA 70X 24' class B Sprinter chassis

DonTom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2010, 06:13:39 PM »

It's the other way around, "R" sounds like "ARE." And since you are totally outnumbered, you might as well give up.
 
Now, if you really want to start a grammar argument, ask about where the period and comma go when there are quotation marks !!
 
Wendy
Me give up? I don't give up until all others admit that they are wrong! ;D And I never argue about anything (stop laughing, Tommy!). I only debate!

-Don- SSF, CA
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L

Eight motorcycles:
Original owner of:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank

Tom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2010, 06:26:49 PM »
Hey Don, I grew up in a different country, with a different version of "English". Try asking Tom how his HK/UK version of English would say it.
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DonTom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2010, 08:30:25 PM »
Hey Don, I grew up in a different country, with a different version of "English". Try asking Tom how his HK/UK version of English would say it.
I did. He says "an RV" sound correct, but we rarely agree on anything anyway. ;D

BTW, I know they speak a different language in England. I noticed that the first time we ate out in London and asked for the "check". They asked "what cheque?" Then another tourist overheard and said "they mean the bill".

"Two nations separated by a common language."
-unknown

-Don Quoteman
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L

Eight motorcycles:
Original owner of:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank

Tom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2010, 08:36:49 PM »
I have no idea what language they speak in England. I've only been there a few times, and was born in a different country  ;D   I knew Tom would have received some Queen's English in his education.
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DonTom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2010, 08:47:34 PM »
I have no idea what language they speak in England. I've only been there a few times, and was born in a different country  ;D   I knew Tom would have received some Queen's English in his education.
He was born and lived in Hong Kong until High school. He went to high school in Northern Ireland (in Armagh) and lived in West Malling (in Kent, south of London). And his British accent was a lot harder for me to understand than his Cantonese accent when we first met in 1974.

But the fact we couldn't always understand what each other is saying is probably how we got along so well over the years.  ;D

-Don- SSF, CA
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L

Eight motorcycles:
Original owner of:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank

Wendy

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2010, 08:55:27 PM »
He was born and lived in Hong Kong until High school. He went to high school in Northern Ireland (in Armagh) and lived in West Malling (in Kent, south of London). And his British accent was a lot harder for me to understand than his Cantonese accent when we first met in 1974.

HK English, Irish, London English and Cantonese ? I would love to meet him and hear that accent.
 
Wendy
Wendy, Mike, and Gordon
~We can't be lost because we don't care where we're going~
Here's where we are http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=2276
2015 Allegro Ooen Road
1973 Sunshine Yellow VW Bug

Tom

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Re: "An RV"?
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2010, 09:10:49 PM »
Aye Don, I know  ;D
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