basement heater making a strange noise

Hey gang, any idea, fired it up for the first time on electric heat,  and then I heard
a banging noise, is this normal?  The unit did heat up and warn up the rig, and con't
to bang away.  unit is a 2004 Vectra, with True air,

thanks,

Phelpo

If it's basement air..banging on start up...and continuing..it's possible failure of #1 blower cage shaft mounting, or #1 blower shaft bearing, or loose allen screw holding blower cage on to motor shaft.

With AC unit off..with flashlight..go under unit to look in the # 1 blower exhaust opening/grill wire. Take a long screwdriver and attempt to push the blower cage up..then try sideways. If it's(circular cage) really laterally loose (1/2-3/4 inch) ..let us know.

Charlie

will do when it warms up,

thanks Charlie

Banging/vibration noise in the blower in furnaces has been know to be caused by mud daubers building their mud nests on the blower cages causing it to be off-balance.  I agree that the noise could be due to a bad blower cage bearing, but that would not likely start all of a sudden. If the rig has not been used for some time and had no problem when parked, I would suspect the mud dauber problem first...

afchap said:

Banging/vibration noise in the blower in furnaces has been know to be caused by mud daubers building their mud nests on the blower cages causing it to be off-balance.  I agree that the noise could be due to a bad blower cage bearing, but that would not likely start all of a sudden. If the rig has not been used for some time and had no problem when parked, I would suspect the mud dauber problem first...

Click to expand...

Agree..could be small dead rodent too..

When was unit last used?..did noise exist in cooling mode?

thanks for the replies,  no the noise didn't happen on a/c this summer
but now it does.  How hard is it to get at the cage or bearings?

Phelpo

phelpo said:

thanks for the replies,  no the noise didn't happen on a/c this summer
but now it does.  How hard is it to get at the cage or bearings?

Phelpo

Click to expand...

Here's the simple method I annually use to inspect the # blower cage integrety and bearing condition and allen screw tightness.

1. Tools reguired: small wire snips, bright flashlight, 6-8 inch T handle 5/32" allen wrench, long needle nose pliers, 10 inch slothead screw driver.

2. Disconnect turn off all A/C and D/C current sources to AC unit...including battery disconnect switch.

3. Crawl under AC unit to view the approximate 5x6 inch blower exhaust wire screen. If a dead rodent in the #1 blower cage is the problem..I'd expect some visible carnage bits on the screen or blades of the #1 blower cage or parts of mud dauber nest debris.

4. Shine your flashlight up into the blower cage and inspect for rodent parts or mud dauber nest debris.

5. If rodent or mud dabber debris are not present, proceed as follows. With the small wire snips, cut the blower exhaust wire screen along three edges leaving about 1/2 inch along the edges fastened to the unit's bottom pan. Bend the flap back to allow your hand and tool access to the blower cage.

6. Take your long needle nose pliers or long screw driver and attempt to wiggle the blower cage in all directions. Then, using the flashlight slowly rotate the blower cage and inspect the allen screw in the cage brass bushing that slides on the #1 motor shaft. It's trickey to find/see the allen screw but very slow rotation (blade by blade) will entually have you peer between two blades to see the one allen screw. Take the 6-8 inch T handle 5/32" allen wrench and insert it into the allen screw. Twist tighten to about 20# torque (snug tight plus 1/8 to 1/4 turn)

7. Again, take your long needle nose pliers or long screw driver and attempt to wiggle the blower cage in all directions.

Let us know the results of this inspection before further steps.

Charlie

Interesting procedure, Charlie!!  I may have to do that with mine if warm weather ever returns.  We have had both blower motors replaced in the past, and I am hearing a bit of startup noise and very subtle extra noise when running. The startup noise makes me suspect another motor going bad, but could be a blower cage.  After you get through messing around through the hole in the bottom, now do you normally resecure the wire mesh that you cut ...just add a piece on top of it?

Phelpo ...the only way to get wide open access to both blower cages, motors, and bearings is to pull the unit out the side of the coach and remove the top cover.  That is not as radical an ordeal as it sounds. It can be done without disconnecting the wiring, etc at all.  The main hassle on mine is removing all the little nuts that secure the outlet duct to the rear of the unit.

Here's a few pictures of our basement unit when it was replaced.  RV Forum member 'Duner' (Bill) wrote up a complete procedure for replacing blower bearings (blower bearings as I recall.)

I want to be like John, just get a whole new unit...... : but I regress

Got under the a/c  tonight and inspected the cage, damn no duber or mouse

so tuesday it is get the hacksaw out and cut part of the screen back and check
for the bears and tightness.  Thanks for the pics John, can u get me a new
unit on the cheap????

Phelpo


oh and I have read Duner's review on a/c removal.

phelpo said:

Thanks for the pics John, can u get me a new unit on the cheap????

Click to expand...

Sure - my cost plus 50%  ;D

afchap said:

Interesting procedure, Charlie!!  I may have to do that with mine if warm weather ever returns.  We have had both blower motors replaced in the past, and I am hearing a bit of startup noise and very subtle extra noise when running. The startup noise makes me suspect another motor going bad, but could be a blower cage.  After you get through messing around through the hole in the bottom, now do you normally resecure the wire mesh that you cut ...just add a piece on top of it?

Phelpo ...the only way to get wide open access to both blower cages, motors, and bearings is to pull the unit out the side of the coach and remove the top cover.  That is not as radical an ordeal as it sounds. It can be done without disconnecting the wiring, etc at all.  The main hassle on mine is removing all the little nuts that secure the outlet duct to the rear of the unit.

Click to expand...

Paul,

I restich the wire flap closed with four 4" wire ties...it makes easy access for next year's Spring inspection.

Again, this is just a prliminary inspection to see if you might have to do the major open unit surgery as per Duner's book. The allen screw was loose on mine..

Charlie

John Canfield said:

Here's a few pictures of our basement unit when it was replaced.  RV Forum member 'Duner' (Bill) wrote up a complete procedure for replacing blower bearings (blower bearings as I recall.)

Click to expand...

Great photos John. I have used Duner's outstanding repair guide to replace the #1 blower bearing...

I slid the entire unit out on the rails...I like the cart the tech was using. Is that a motorcycle lift cart?

Charlie

Phelpo,

As far as finding a new one..I did a google search for one a couple of years ago. I searched by the exact model number and came up with two still in the box for about 1300 dollars.

Charlie

Below is the link to the "Basement A/C Removal Procedure" that is available in the the Library section of this forum.
http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=408:basement-ac-removal-procedure&catid=52:winnebago-specific-content&Itemid=45

When I wrote this I got a lot of feedback from forum posters about the metal squirrel cage failures.  I think they get metal fatigue in various areas as the joints wear and loosen up.  Anyway the new composite plastic ones are much quieter too.  This procedure I wrote will help you replace the blower parts too.

Good luck with yours,
Bill 

Duner said:

Below is the link to the "Basement A/C Removal Procedure" that is available in the the Library section of this forum.
http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=408:basement-ac-removal-procedure&catid=52:winnebago-specific-content&Itemid=45

When I wrote this I got a lot of feedback from forum posters about the metal squirrel cage failures.  I think they get metal fatigue in various areas as the joints wear and loosen up.  Anyway the new composite plastic ones are much quieter too.  This procedure I wrote will help you replace the blower parts too.

Good luck with yours,
Bill

Click to expand...

Thanks Bill.

Anyone not familiar with Bill's procedure has missed the golden egg of repairs for basement air. I highly recommend it be a permenant download document on any MHr's traveling computer. It could save you weeks of trip delay and about 1000 dollars in repairs.

As memtioned, I have used it. 

My only addition would be: if you go into the unit to replace the number one blower cage, replace the #1 blower shaft bearing as per Bill's replacement upgrade bearing. Then, replace the number two blower bearing at the same time with the same upgrade bearing.

I have thought a lot about my next repair on the basement unit and I really like the motorcycle lift concept, shown in John's photo, for removal-slide out-reinstall.

(Off topic) Bill, see you at NASCAR in Vegas next month. Also, the basement air heat pump power consumption mode issue has disappeared. Alll working normal again 23-26 amp draw.

Charlie

Pubtym said:

Great photos John. I have used Duner's outstanding repair guide to replace the #1 blower bearing...

I slid the entire unit out on the rails...I like the cart the tech was using. Is that a motorcycle lift cart?

Click to expand...

Charlie - a motorcycle lift would be my guess, or a platform lift - I have seen those in the Northern Tool catalog.  I could have really used one of those when I had to replace clutch parts in my ranch mini-truck.

John Canfield said:

Charlie - a motorcycle lift would be my guess, or a platform lift - I have seen those in the Northern Tool catalog.  I could have really used one of those when I had to replace clutch parts in my ranch mini-truck.

Click to expand...

John,

Yes, that looks like another must have tool for my garage.

Charlie

Ok guys, since I think it is either a bearing or cage, where am I going to buy these?


Thanks,

Phelpo

phelpo said:

Ok guys, since I think it is either a bearing or cage, where am I going to buy these?


Thanks,

Phelpo

Click to expand...

Phelpo, I have all the part numbers, July 2008 prices,  and ordering info, and names who to talk to .... in the document I referenced in the above post ... that you can download and save.