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Author Topic: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh  (Read 10726 times)

5n2mom

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GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« on: January 19, 2011, 08:46:43 PM »
 :o I'm trying to understand-really. And to look before I ask questions , but my gosh could they make it a little more clear! (and could salesmen all sing the same song)  If I purchase the TC 1st I will know its weight-so I can look up the info on a truck but am I looking at the payload (which is weight in the bed, not people up front, right?)  or do I have to (as you've all recommended) actually get the truck take it and weigh it?That seems hard to do oon a truck you don't own. What difference does max or standard payload make? More than one salesman has said the 150/250 # (like f150) no longer matters?? SO whats a 1500 compared to a 250 really?? Can I put a 1550 lb TC on every crewcab as "assured" by truck salesmen because it is "so light"  Thanks!!!

tfconlon

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 08:43:52 AM »
I don't think taking a test drive to a scale is asking to much. It is better to have a little extra truck than to be border line on it's capacity. I have a 3500 crewcab which states I shouldn't go over 1750#, my truck has a GVWR of 9400#,and my campers dry weight is 2475#. When I weighed it, I came in at 9200# wet with two passengers, and a full load of gas. I often travel through the White Mountains in NH, and have no problems with braking.
Tom C
2011 GMC 2500HD
2008 KZ Sportsmen
DownEast Maine

FastEagle

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    • Down the roads with us
Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 09:26:44 AM »
Seldom mentioned is how your state of registry deals with the various P/U trucks loads and what they might be towing. Here in SC you must declare the intended use of your truck and your registration is issued accordingly. In normal every day usage the truck can have just the vehicle’s GVWR listed on the registration. However, if you’re planning on towing things around with your truck on a regular basis you have to get a color coded tag and increase your load capabilities on your registration. Authorized vehicle manufacturer/dealer options can affect your maximum GCWR. Mine went from 20K to 23K by using 4.10 gearing in place of the 3.73.

SCDOT is very active and if you’re spotted towing something without having the red & white tag you’re going to get pulled. Every truck I’ve seen pulled while towing something has had a squat. They weigh each axle position, add up all positions and compare the total with the GCWR listed on your TV registration. If over you will have to park it right there until the weight is reduced or another TV with an adequate GCWR is used.

FastEagle   
USN RET (PDRL)
DOD RET Journeyman Aircraft Mechanic
SSA RET
http://fasteaglervparking.blogspot.com/

5n2mom

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 06:35:20 PM »
Thanks guys..well, I think thanks, fasteagle-thats more stuff I've never thought of! Anyone able to tell me if the 150/250 system means anything "now" as sales men have said it does not.

DF5.4

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2011, 06:40:28 PM »
150's are lighter duty than 250's. From there you need to go to the manufacturer and fine the ratings of the truck.
Doug

2007 Ford Expedition
2011 Tracer 3000BHS

edjunior

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  • Roman Forest, TX
Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 06:49:09 PM »
The 150/250 (1500/2500) ratings mean less than they did years ago, but for a salesman to say the mean nothing is akin to saying there's no difference between a Yugo (remember those) and a Caddillac.  The 150/1500 trucks have increased their tow and payload ratings in recent years, but when it comes to hauling/towing, especially RV's, and more especially a truck camper, you don't even want to go there.  Start off right and go with a 250/2500.  Even if the TC is light.  You have a better ride, better braking, better suspension, better everything.  With even 1500 pounds riding behind you, you don't want to skimp on the little details.  Do it right the first time and you won't be doing it again.

If you're talking to a RV dealer about the truck you need, you're talking to the wrong person.  Go to a truck dealer.  They should be able to help you get the right truck for the job.  And they will be more than happy to sell you the bigger, beefier truck. 

Good luck!
Ed.....KF5INW
2011 F-250 XLT, 6.7L PSD
2010 Forest River Wildcat 28RKBS
"I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong!"

glen54737

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  • My camping buddy
Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2011, 07:34:24 PM »
I wouldn't say it means nothing the higher the number the higher the capacity of the truck ( generally) it used to be a rating 1500 lbs or 2500 or whatever but they have changed the ratings without changing the names.
there are a lot of different configurations of trucks even the same model usually at least 3 different gvwr options.
2018 Thor Miramar 35.2
2015 F-350 CC short box 6.7l 3.55 axle
2015 Alpine 3510RE-sold

Glen,Nene
Mickey & Jayco (yorkies)

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 04:52:35 PM »
5n2Mom,
Most of the terms we use are are reasonable well defined in our RV Glossary, accessible via a button on the menu bar near the top.

While there is no industry-standard definition, "Payload' generally includes everything carried in the truck except a 154 lb driver and a full tank of fuel. Pick-up bed or front seat makes no difference. For practical purposes it is the difference between the "curb weight" and the GVWR minus 154 lbs (the federally-defined standard weight for a human driver).  If you carry extra passengers or the driver weighs 300 lbs instead of 154, the amount of gear and other cargo you can carry in the back goes down.

The TC has to be carried by the truck, so you need enough Payload for it, passengers and any gear you put into the TC, including water and propane.

A half ton or 150 or 1500 truck is generally built to a much lighter specification than a 250/2500 (3/4 ton) or 350/3500 (one ton), so there are some fundamental differences in strength regardless of the payload specs, which sometimes can be fairly close.  Today, a half ton 1500 is likely to have a payload  that a 3/4 ton would have been proud to carry 10-15 years ago, but that does not mean a whole lot. Just concentrate on the weights you need to carry and leave yourself plenty of extra margin, both for safety and for future growth.

I strongly recommend a 3/4 ton (2500) as a minimum for any TC. You will never regret having the stronger, more rigid chassis and typically greater payload that the larger, heavy duty truck offers.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

longhaul

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 09:34:15 PM »
"Can I put a 1550 lb TC on every crewcab as "assured" by truck salesmen because it is "so light"  Thanks!!! "

 Not on a std duty  F150/1500 crew cab.  That 1550 lbs is probably a dry weight. Add the necessaries to the camper and it will most likely be close to 2000 lbs.  Now if the 1550 is a max wet weight then my little 1500 truck will work  My littlest truck is a '06 1500 crew cab chevy 4x4 3.73 axle auto tranny. It has a 4000 lb RAWR and P rated tires and  approx  1680 lbs of payload capacity. 

 Move up to a 2500/F250 gives you a 6000-6200 RAWR/LT E tire capacity with up to 3300+ lbs of payload capacity depending on trucks configuration.  As others have said the 2500  truck is just a heavier duty vehicle.

 FYI..... For comparasions a F350/3500 SRW Ford and GM trucks have a 7000 RAWR. Thats good for up to 4300 lbs payload, again depending on truck configuration. AND the F350/3500 DRW with its 9000-9375 RAWR has over 6600 lbs payload depending.

 A 1500 truck is limited in carrying capacity by its low spring capacity small semi float axles and P tires that all carry a low rating.


Retiredfromthefunnyfarm

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 09:13:04 AM »
Well... Most of the manufactureres claims of Payload are Based on a Standard Short Cab Truck with a Gas Engine and 2 Wheel Drive. (That's what the * by the payload rating is usually about)  And are quite impressive.... But Add a Heavy Diesel Engine, 4X4, 4 Door Crew Cab, And other creature comforts and you will be shocked at the difference... :'(

Also a Short Box will set the Camper farther Back and you can easily go over the Back Axle and tire ratings. It may help some if the camper is actually designed for a short box as it May have the center of gravity farther forward.

I have a 2500 Regular cab Diesel 4X4 and a 2000 pound camper and I can tell you that I have all I want on that truck when ready to travel. If I was to pull a larger trailer I would put the camper on my 2 WD 3500 Dually as you gain some by losing the 4X4 and the higher GVW of the Dually.

5n2mom

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 04:21:58 PM »
ok Thanks :D..very helpful-I saw the library but not the glossary so will get busy there! And for what its worth, something finally clicked (a little?) I keep being drawn to look at extended cab 2wd  gas F1500s  cuz they are very available  and  more affordable in my area but thats  comparing them to kingcab  desiel 250 4x4s(which I want!) that noone seems to be parting with...in wanting to be done its easy to almost hurry to the wrong thing.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 04:49:41 PM »
You can get F150's configured to tow as much as 10,000 lbs, but they are probably not readily available either. It's typically the more car-like models that are littering the sales lots.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

slackercruster

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 02:28:18 PM »
Seldom mentioned is how your state of registry deals with the various P/U trucks loads and what they might be towing. Here in SC you must declare the intended use of your truck and your registration is issued accordingly. In normal every day usage the truck can have just the vehicle’s GVWR listed on the registration. However, if you’re planning on towing things around with your truck on a regular basis you have to get a color coded tag and increase your load capabilities on your registration. Authorized vehicle manufacturer/dealer options can affect your maximum GCWR. Mine went from 20K to 23K by using 4.10 gearing in place of the 3.73.

SCDOT is very active and if you’re spotted towing something without having the red & white tag you’re going to get pulled. Every truck I’ve seen pulled while towing something has had a squat. They weigh each axle position, add up all positions and compare the total with the GCWR listed on your TV registration. If over you will have to park it right there until the weight is reduced or another TV with an adequate GCWR is used.

FastEagle   

Wow, do they hassle TC'ers say 600 - 800 pounds over registration limit? Or is it for someome towing a big boat?

I'm right at the border with my wt and 8000 pound registraion for an F350. But it is with an empty TC. I may add 800 pounds of stuff for a trip, so be overweight according to the registraion. Would that be an issue?

34footer

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 03:00:08 PM »
Minimum 3/4 ton is what you will need. 250/2500 1550# is not really that light. You buy a 1/2 ton and you will be adding all kinds of spring helpers, brakes will be marginal, even the tires are not the same.
J
1988 Pace Arrow, 34 feet, Chevy 454
                       So Cal

Full Monte

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 08:14:28 AM »
I understand your dilemma.  I had a TC for 20 years.  Here is part of what I learned:

a.  Any truck camper will put almost any commonly used truck over the GVW max.  That's why salesmen give your the runaround and all the double-talk.  They don't want you to weigh it.
b.  Your approach is pretty smart...but you won't like the answers you get.
c.  I have an 11ft 3 in. camper on a F350 dually truck, 4WD, dually diesel crew cab.  If you decide to get a TC, put it on a regular cab truck or super cab.  Reason is that the longer cab puts more of the weight on the rear axle....a lot more weight.  Think about it long and hard before purchasing a 4-door truck.
d.  Add 50% to the dry weight of any camper you look at to account for all the stuff you will add before you go anywhere in it.
e.  If you get a truck, watch the weight on each tire.  Single rear wheels can be easily overweighted and that means blowouts.  Don't buy cheap tires.
f.  No matter what truck you buy, you will need an anti-sway bar on the rear wheels and air bags on the rear.  Don't fool with extra springs.  I did and air bags work better.

Good luck!
2004 Tiffen Allegro 27.5 ft.  8.1L Workhorse engine.
11k miles.
1985 F350 dually crewcab 6.9 diesel 4x4 with 11 1/2 ft. Vacationeer camper

iainleaver

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Re: GVWR, standard payload, max payload...250,2500 uugh
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2011, 12:58:18 PM »
I am in a similar position. We have decided to go from a TT to a slide in camper.

We already have a quad cab diesel long bed Ram 2500 (great for towing the trailer!)

I have been looking at something like a lance 950 which weighs around 2200# without options.

When I add 1000# for options and our stuff it adds up real quick!

As there will be 4 of us we need a quad cab but when I look at new 1 ton Ram quad cabs even they don't seem to have the payload.

Do I really need a dually for a camper like this? Or can I get something like this to work with my truck?

 

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