E350/E450 Handling Problems are caused by too little + CASTER

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Thanks.

When searching INGALLS 594,  Specialty Products SPC794 part # 24180 $24.26,  Spicer 6122025 $22.08,  NAPA NCP 264-3950 $36.71,  and Superlift SLF-1120 $34.95.  and napa NCP 2641988 I found the NCP 2641988 was only one piece.. 

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NCP2641988_0161964863

Does my stock 95 E350 have the second sleeve already installed?
 
As far as I know, these sleeves are either one piece for a fixed camber and caster setting OR two concentric sleeves for adjustable camber and caster settings.

Also, as far as I know, SPC794 (SPC PN 24180) are the equivalent to Ingalls 594s.

Pay particular to your final caster settings, left to the technicians judgement he may just assume to set the caster at mid range instead as far +caster as it can be set.
 
Thanks Howard..

I'm now looking at the Spicer 6122025  or Spicer 612-2025 to save a few dollars..  Are they also the equivalent to Ingalls 594s?

Mike
 
rebar said:
Thanks Howard..

I'm now looking at the Spicer 6122025  or Spicer 612-2025 to save a few dollars..  Are they also the equivalent to Ingalls 594s?

Mike

Yes, it looks to be suitable for the Ford E Series, it cross checks as a Raybestos 6122025

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?a=Search%2Bfor%2BRAYBESTOS%2B6122025&catalog=95&partnum=6122025&ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=CAD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=r54ohf0p86b129brblop6is1m0
 
Adding the caster worked great Harvard.  The van steers better the faster you go practically.

Only problem Iv found is a pop, or clunk, when backing up with wheels turned hard to the right.  Like when I back out of a driveway.

Anyway, Ill take care of that I hope and just wanted to thank you for the information you've provided here. 

 
and thank you rebar for reviving this thread.
I have an appointment at josams to get my alignment checked next week.  It was good for me to refresh on this recommendation of +5 degrees or more, so that I can discuss this with the folks there.
 
I can't speak specifically to the Ford E chassis, but I just replaced the two front tires and shocks on my 15 going on 16 year old Chevy 3500, Econoline chassis equivalent.
The tire guy, who is also a friend, told and showed me what the problem was on my particular RV, and something that is common with modified factory chassis of all manufacturers according to him. The way it was explained to me, made sense.
The open chassis which the "house" was built on, was modified by the RV manufacturer, by extending the chassis rearward, and a heavy "house" built on top of it.  This changed the factory design in weight, height, length, and width.
As the modified vehicle and "house" go down the road as an RV, the front end has a tendency to "bounce" more than it is designed to do, as a factory designed van chassis would, and as such, it tends to wear the tires unevenly as they spin....chop....chop....chop, rather than a smooth revolution, and the tires wearing evenly, as they maintain constant contact with the pavement as they spin.
I would also suspect this would also effect handling problems, as the bounce and chop of the front end causes the front tires to maintain uneven contact with the road as they rotate and spin.
 
Hello,

Reading this thread, makes it all clear to me.....

We made last year in June and this year in Mai a tour of about 3500 and 3840 miles, with rental motorhomes, a 26 type C from Road Bear and a C25, factorynew one from Cruise America. Last trip was from Chicago to SF. Both were C350 Ford's.

And since we, as Europeans, are used to the stability of our own MH, a Fiat with AL-KO chassis, I was astonished about the very bad handling ... And even more this year, since we passed the north of Texas, during those bad weather period. I was realy steering all the time. Checked even, several times if there wasn't any visible problem with the tyres, airpressure or axle .... Pfffff .... Even thought a brief moment perhaps there must be bolts, not thightend enough .... Heavy winds made driving almost a terrifying experience!

But we still enjoyed our trip and stay in your wonderfull, beautifull country!
Thanks also for the hospitality and friendliness people showed us.

Bye, Dani?l
 
rebar said:
Only problem Iv found is a pop, or clunk, when backing up with wheels turned hard to the right.  Like when I back out of a driveway.

I figured out what the noise was.  My over sized tires now rub the body even though they didn't before.  Did adding caster move the wheels back?
 
rebar said:
I figured out what the noise was.  My over sized tires now rub the body even though they didn't before.  Did adding caster move the wheels back?

A change in caster shows up as changes in camber when the steering wheel is turned away from center.

With an increase in +caster the outside wheel will have more NEGATIVE CAMBER while the inside wheel will have more POSITIVE CAMBER.

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28154264.cfm
 
I'm at Josam now.  Looking forward to seeing what it is, and what they come up with.
I mentioned this idea to the tech..... of shooting for +5 degrees or more of caster
He said most often these things have too much negative camber, and toe is out..... He says he uses up the bushing to get the camber in... whatever that means. 

I can't quite wrap my head around it.

We'll see..... at least these folks are supposed to be the experts so I'm hopeful it will be at least no worse than it was......
 
ok, here are my before .....
                      Left          Right
Camber        +1              +3.5
Caster            +3.25        +3.15
Toe Out                  -2.6

and after numbers
                      Left          Right
Camber        +3.0            +3.5
Caster            +2.45        +3.15
Toe In                  +2.2

I only drove it a short distance after, maybe 20 miles to a campground but I did get it up on the interstate to speed, and it was very windy with an approaching black and ominous cloud thunder boomer.
My impression that it did drive much better..... but I didn't feel that it was all that bad before.
The wind didn't seem to make such a fight and I thing the bump steering was reduced (having to fight against bumps in the road)

I did have a conversation with the tech and manager together, at Josam after he had completed the work.
He said that it's a bit "sticky", meaning that when coming out of a turn, the steering wheel should want to return to center if released, but mine tended to stick off center...... he said that's common with these Fords.

He also commented that 5 degree casters are more of a thing with Chevy chassis.....

It seems like a couple different philosophies in alignment here.....

I didn't get my 5 degrees of caster that I had hoped after reading this thread, but based on my 20 miles, I think I'm happy.

Interested in your comments and thoughts about these numbers

 
blw2 said:
ok, here are my before .....
                      Left          Right
Camber        +1              +3.5
Caster            +3.25        +3.15
Toe Out                  -2.6

and after numbers
                      Left          Right
Camber        +3.0            +3.5
Caster            +2.45        +3.15
Toe In                  +2.2

I only drove it a short distance after, maybe 20 miles to a campground but I did get it up on the interstate to speed, and it was very windy with an approaching black and ominous cloud thunder boomer.
My impression that it did drive much better..... but I didn't feel that it was all that bad before.
The wind didn't seem to make such a fight and I thing the bump steering was reduced (having to fight against bumps in the road)

I did have a conversation with the tech and manager together, at Josam after he had completed the work.
He said that it's a bit "sticky", meaning that when coming out of a turn, the steering wheel should want to return to center if released, but mine tended to stick off center...... he said that's common with these Fords.

He also commented that 5 degree casters are more of a thing with Chevy chassis.....

It seems like a couple different philosophies in alignment here.....

I didn't get my 5 degrees of caster that I had hoped after reading this thread, but based on my 20 miles, I think I'm happy.

Interested in your comments and thoughts about these numbers

The camber and toe are way out of spec AND you did not get the +5.0 or more of +caster which defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. Sorry to bear bad news.
 
I've gotta believe that they would put it into spec.....
So what is the factory spec range for camber and tow?

I understand that it's not the 5 degrees... but initial observations based on test drive in very windy storm conditions don't point to it being bad news at all......  I'll know better tomorrow after a longer drive though.

 
I wasn't successful finding the specs for the 2013 model to see if they're different than the 2004 model numbers harvard posted earlier.....
 
blw2 said:
I wasn't successful finding the specs for the 2013 model to see if they're different than the 2004 model numbers harvard posted earlier.....

If you asked for 5 degrees or more, I'd take it back.  You have less caster than before !

I made sure I talked to the mechanic and handed him the parts with those instructions. 
 
blw2 said:
I wasn't successful finding the specs for the 2013 model to see if they're different than the 2004 model numbers harvard posted earlier.....

The specifications are all very much the same ball park. Here is a published range for the 2008 thru 2012 E350/E450.

LEFT    Camber -0.3 Degrees thru +1.3 Degrees
RIGHT Camber -0.3 Degrees thru +1.3 Degrees

LEFT    Caster +1.0 Degrees thru +6.8 Degrees
RIGHT Caster +1.4 Degrees thru +7.2 Degrees.
Cross  Caster -1.2 Degrees thru +0.4 Degrees

LEFT    Toe -0.1 Degrees thru +0.16 Degrees
RIGHT Toe -0.1 Degrees thru +0.16 Degrees
Total  Toe -0.19 Degrees thru +0.31 Degrees
 
Interesting, thanks Harvard.
I think I'll try to find time to call Josam on Monday to see what they say about it.....
I'll be driving 2-1/2 hours home today so a much better road test to report on soon

I can't believe they would set the tow, especially, that far out of spec.....
 
blw2 said:
ok, here are my before .....
                      Left          Right
Camber        +1              +3.5
Caster            +3.25        +3.15
Toe Out                  -2.6

and after numbers
                      Left          Right
Camber        +3.0            +3.5
Caster            +2.45        +3.15
Toe In                  +2.2

I only drove it a short distance after, maybe 20 miles to a campground but I did get it up on the interstate to speed, and it was very windy with an approaching black and ominous cloud thunder boomer.
My impression that it did drive much better..... but I didn't feel that it was all that bad before.
The wind didn't seem to make such a fight and I thing the bump steering was reduced (having to fight against bumps in the road)

I did have a conversation with the tech and manager together, at Josam after he had completed the work.
He said that it's a bit "sticky", meaning that when coming out of a turn, the steering wheel should want to return to center if released, but mine tended to stick off center...... he said that's common with these Fords.

He also commented that 5 degree casters are more of a thing with Chevy chassis.....

It seems like a couple different philosophies in alignment here.....

I didn't get my 5 degrees of caster that I had hoped after reading this thread, but based on my 20 miles, I think I'm happy.

Interested in your comments and thoughts about these numbers

So a better road test today.
I would say it's a marked improvement.
It was breezy enough to wave flags, and it drove much better.
Still a bit of a centering problem, so not perfect.... it's not a mini-van..... but I'd think I'm happy.
I also noticed far less correction needed with passing semis
I'm still wondering about this out of spec question, but I think they did good based on driving....

The folks at josam had suggested that if I still wasn't happy after the alignment I should look into the safe-t-plus stabilizer.  I'm not convinced I need it, but assuming that my alignment isn't no so far out of spec, then I might look into that, only so my wife might be more comfortable with it....
 
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