Colder than we thought.

We like to winter camp because of the peace and quiet.  We will also cross country ski from time to time.  One of the places we go is a full service campsite in the Canadian Rockies just West of Calgary.  Decided to go camping this weekend.  Weather should have been around -20 (-4F) for a low, and -15 (+5F) during the day.  Too cold to ski, but nice to just sit in the sun and listen to the quiet.

First night was -28 (-18F) and calm.  We did fine.  Furnace worked well, and we were comfortable.  I sat outside in front of my portable propane heater and read for a couple of hours on Wednesday afternoon when we arrived.  I had a blanket over my legs to keep them from getting too hot in front of the heater, and no gloves.  Was nice.  We've been out in -30 before without problem.  Last night was another story.

Though it wasn't quite empty, I changed out one of the propane bottles before going to bed 'just in case'.  I have a programmable thermostat that keeps the trailer at +10 (50F) over night.  It took the trailer less than an hour to go from +21 (70F) to +10 (50F) inside.  I figured something was up, as it doesn't usually cool off that fast.

Slept all night just fine, and woke up at 7 with the furnace running steady trying to heat the place back up again.  The thermostat resets to +21 at 6 AM, and the furnace had brought the inside of the trailer up to only 10.5 degrees (51F) over that hour.  There was warm air coming out of the vents, but certainly not as hot as usual.  And the water pump wouldn't work.  We'd had problems before with the switch in the range hood which controls the pump, so I figured it had given up.  We had breakfast, and turned on the 1500 watt electric heater/fan combo that we took with us, to help the furnace catch up.  While making breakfast, my wife noticed that there was hardly any gas coming out of the range burners.  Oh oh.

Propane freezes at -40 C (-40F).  We found out later that it was -34 (-29F) overnight, by far the coldest we have ever been camping in, and FAR colder than had been predicted when we left for the weekend.  The furnace had been drawing a lot of gas trying to heat the trailer up, and that decompresses the bottles, cooling them still further.  I figured that we were close to a freeze up, so put the electric heater inside the propane enclosure directed at the bottles, and closed the door.  In about 10 minutes, the gas pressure came back up, as did the intensity of the heat from the furnace.  At least that was normal again.

However, we still had no fresh water, as the pump wouldn't.  The pump itself is mounted right under the furnace, and was not even cold.  The water in the fresh water tank was slightly warm as a result of my winterizing work a few years ago, so that was fine too.  It appears that the low gas pressure reduced the heat from the furnace over night, and the water feed line from the pump to the rest of the trailer likely froze.  It is in a heated cavity except where it runs under the tub in the bathroom.  Ordinarily, this is not a problem, as one of the heat ducts for the bathroom runs under there as well.  However, it looks like the reduced efficiency of the furnace over night did us in.

I plugged the truck in at the same time I put the heater on the propane bottles.  Fortunately, with just an hour or so with the block heater on, it started, which is amazing for a diesel.  I had replaced the two truck batteries just a few weeks ago when the old ones had frozen solid at home.  They were 5 years old anyway, so were due for replacement.  Had I not done that.....

So, rather than take a chance that the line would freeze further, and perhaps burst (if it hadn't already), we decided to come home.  With the trailer back in our heated garage for an hour or so, and with the furnace running in the trailer, the line thawed, and is fine.  No ruptures.

So, now we know that -30 (-22F) is OK, but the trailer is just not good enough for -34 (-29F).    We've also learned yet again that you can't trust the weatherman.

Frank.

Putting a 100 watt bulb in the same compartment as the propane bottles might've kept them warm enough.

Nice to read your report.

My motorhome LP is under, and open to ambient.  Plus we are using a big bottle next to the coach and totally open to ambient.  We have been fine to -19 but at that point we had an issue with a line from the water heater to the bathroom faucet.  About 20 minutes with the bay heater on and all was flowing. 

Weathermen.  Predictin 18 to 24" the next two days, I'll report back. 

The air in western Canada has had a definite bite lately.  ;D

Hey they're predicting "snow" at 1000' in Northern California!  My Granddaughter is all excited, wants to make snow angels!  Go figure!!!

Snow at sea level in Bandon, OR. 

http://www.kval.com/news/local/116947588.html

Margi

RoyM said:

The air in western Canada has had a definite bite lately.  ;D

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The last few months really.    I'm on my way to a Microsoft conference in Seattle and particularly wanted to see some green scenery after the last three or four months of snow.  So it snowed the night and morning before I got here.  GRRRRRRR.

I don't mind the -6 but there was one heck of a wind yesterday too.   

Tony_Alberta:

Putting a 100 watt bulb in the same compartment as the propane bottles might've kept them warm enough.

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That would have been a good idea.  However, we were not expecting this kind of numbing cold.  Had I known, we would have stayed home to begin with.  We don't knowingly go out in weather that cold.

RoyM:

The air in western Canada has had a definite bite lately. 

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Yeah, it has been a brutal year for cold and snow, and we've still got March ahead of us.  March is the usual time for heavy snowfall in these parts.  Glad I bought a snow blower last year!

Last Fall, Environment Canada's long-term forecast was for above average temperatures, and below average snowfall for the Winter.  Guess they got that wrong as well. 

Frank.

My son in Tucson says that snow is forcasted for tonight and tomorrow and will collect on the ground. We'll probably get his leftovers here in New Mexico's Middle Rio Grand. We need the moisture!

I was going to complain about a low of 21 degrees (F) in Troutdale OR until I read that! Going out to bask in the sun at below zero degrees F? You're hardier that we are, for sure. Whew!

OK,

Now WHY are we in Troutdale in February?????
Are you at Sandy Riverfront? We spent 10 days there a couple of summers ago.

ken

Pierat:

I was going to complain about a low of 21 degrees (F) in Troutdale OR until I read that! Going out to bask in the sun at below zero degrees F? You're hardier that we are, for sure. Whew!

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Some of us don't have the choice.    I'm not retired yet.

It is not a case of being hardy, but rather being well prepared and well dressed.  No, you don't sun bathe, but sitting in front of a warm radiant heater and just listening to the birds is delightful.  And cross-country skiing in the mountains is a form of exercise that can be indulged in by people well past retirement age.  Some friends of ours (younger than we) were passed on the ski trails some weeks back by an elderly couple.  He was 89, and she was 91.  Now, THAT is hardy! 

Frank.

Once prepared, the snow situation is not that bad.  We got around a foot since noon yesterdaym and it is supposed to last until tonight.  Heard 18" to 24" by the time it ends.  Tonight very cold as the clouds move away.  But in the next week, days up to 50's and sunny. 

I knew it would be cold here, so no excuse.  BTW, never skirted the coach.  Lots of discussion, spec'd out how, but never was needed. 

I thank the man above for bringing me into the world in Tennessee especially after reading the previous posts.  We have had a bad winter here according to what we normally have and today it is supposed to be in the low 70's.  We have had nothing when compared to the states north and to the west of us.  Hang in there folks we are with you.

Pancake Bill:

BTW, never skirted the coach.

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At just below freezing, you shouldn't need it anyway.  I understand that most coaches have the belly heated anyway.  Our 23' 5th had no skirting when we faced the -34C (-29F) in Kananaskis.  It was mostly calm, however, and we were in the trees anyway.

Frank.

Well, we did have down to -19.  The fact the bellly is heated as well as being another protection against cold made me decide that way.  Figure the fact that stuff doesn't freeze in the bays was enough to dissuade me.

If we were to face -35 for extended perods, I would likely opt out of living in the MH and go for a cabin or something. 

Ken & Sheila: Hi! We are at Sandy Riverfront RV Park in Troutdale. We are waiting to go on up to Bonneville Lock & Dam for our March-May stint with the Corps of Engineers as volunteer visitor center hosts. They won't de-winterize our site until the current freezing spell is over. We did this last year but had better weather getting here. This year, we had a fair bit of snow in Eugene last week, but Friday was a good travel day between cold and wet spells. We're now hoping I-84 gets sufficiently clear of possible slippery patches to go on up, once our site is ready. A FedEx truck nearly slid into the Columbia River a couple of days ago, near Multnomah Falls. There are parts of that highway that are damp and don't see much sunshine. A ranger told me there were seven accidents near the Bonneville exit (#40) back in January. So, we're awaiting the call and enjoying the nearby shopping and facilities.

Frank B: Understand. I was having a little fun with it, but you're right, if one is prepared, that sounds great.

John,

We have tentative plans to go from Moab to Eugene for some additional work. If we get there in May I want to go out and camp a few days at John Day Dam - hope to stop by and see you again.

Ken

Pierat - We saw pictures of the Fed Ex truck on the news.  Looked like both back wheels were in mid-air over the gorge.  Scary.

Margi

Ken and Sheila - I hope you'll give us a call when you're coming.

Margi - Yes, not a place I want to be. We're having rain and wind for at least another couple of days, with temps in the mid-30s at night.