Need help running a 30 amp 120 for home use.

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Paulford8

Paulford8

Active member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Posts
33
Location
Morton, IL
Here is plan. Somebody who has done this jump and in and let me know before I fry something.

Current state: I have two 14/2 from a twin 15amp 220 breaker ran into my garage.

Mater plan: Run the two 14/2's into a 30amp sub panel.

Bury outdoor #8 15ft to my storage shed.

Install RV outlet box on side of shed and attach #8 wire

Connect #8 to breaker and test.

Somebody please confirm or shoot down my plan. I talked to a professional about this and he was very mistaken about how to wire it (he wants to run the 220 all the way to my shed which = no). I need to do this myself so I am sure it is done correctly.
 
Please clarify - when you say "twin 15 amp breaker" are you talking about side-by-side ganged or a dual breaker inside a single breaker sized package?  If your "twin 15 amp breaker" is side-by-side and ganged you probably have 220 VAC running to the garage and you could not use this to gain a 30 amp circuit because the 2 lines would be out of phase.  On the other hand, if both lines are the same phase, it would work, but I wouldn't call it "done correctly".  If at all feasible, run 8 or 10 ga from your breaker box to the shed.  To save some money, you might run 8-10 ga. to the garage then only have to buy 15 ft. of 8-10 ga underground cable.  Whether you use 8 ga or get by with 10 ga would depend on just how long a run you are looking at.
 
When you say you have 2 14/2's that you want to connect to the sub, are you talking about running them in parallel? Meaning you would have 2 black and 2 white wires on the line side of the sub? That is a less than ideal setup.  You would have to make absolutely sure you have the phasing right before you energized the sub panel, if phasing is wrong you will have lots of sparks and risk melting the wires...... 

If I was to do this job, I would get a roll of 10/2 uf wire and run that from your main house panel (on a 2 pole 30amp breaker), to the sub you want to add in your garage.  You can the bury the same 10/2 uf out to your shed where you want to add your outlet and put a single pole 30amp breaker in your sub.  Only being 15ft away, voltage drop is not a big issue so upgrading to 8awg wire is not necessary. 
 
Paulford8 said:
Here is plan. Somebody who has done this jump and in and let me know before I fry something.

Current state: I have two 14/2 from a twin 15amp 220 breaker ran into my garage.

Mater plan: Run the two 14/2's into a 30amp sub panel.

Bury outdoor #8 15ft to my storage shed.

Install RV outlet box on side of shed and attach #8 wire

Connect #8 to breaker and test.

Somebody please confirm or shoot down my plan. I talked to a professional about this and he was very mistaken about how to wire it (he wants to run the 220 all the way to my shed which = no). I need to do this myself so I am sure it is done correctly.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that it is YOU who is very "mistaken" about how to wire this project.  If your garage is only wired with 14 gauge wire, you do NOT have anything available to you for wiring a 30amp circuit.  30amps requires 10 gauge wire.  Adding 8 or 10 gauge wire downstream from 14 gauge (15amp) buys you nothing.

Either run 10 or 8 gauge directly from a 30amp breaker in your MAIN access panel to the shed, or listen to your "professional".
 
Irocrcr said:
When you say you have 2 14/2's that you want to connect to the sub, are you talking about running them in parallel? Meaning you would have 2 black and 2 white wires on the line side of the sub? That is a less than ideal setup.  You would have to make absolutely sure you have the phasing right before you energized the sub panel, if phasing is wrong you will have lots of sparks and risk melting the wires...... 

If I was to do this job, I would get a roll of 10/2 uf wire and run that from your main house panel (on a 2 pole 30amp breaker), to the sub you want to add in your garage.  You can the bury the same 10/2 uf out to your shed where you want to add your outlet and put a single pole 30amp breaker in your sub.  Only being 15ft away, voltage drop is not a big issue so upgrading to 8awg wire is not necessary.
Click to expand...


It is a single 30amp breaker with 2 15amp sides and 14/2 ran from each side. Cant remember what it was suppose to be for but is ran and presently not hooked up to anything.

Using the existing wiring is just a convenince and not necessary. It just so happens I have a routing path from my main 200 amp panel to my garage right now.

From the responses and some searching on the net it sounds like I need to:
-buy a roll of 10/2,
-install a 30a 120 breaker,
-route the 10/2 into my garage,
-install a 30amp sub or junction,
-run 10/2 UF outside,
-trench to my shed,
-install RV panel.

Am I missing anything?
 
aka Porky said:
I'm afraid that it is YOU who is very "mistaken" about how to wire this project.  If your garage is only wired with 14 gauge wire, you do NOT have anything available to you for wiring a 30amp circuit.  30amps requires 10 gauge wire.  Adding 8 gauge wire downstream from 14 gauge (15amp) buys you nothing.

Either run 10 or 8 gauge directly from a 30amp breaker in your MAIN access panel to the shed, or listen to your "professional".
Click to expand...


I think you missed read friend. No WAY would I try to run 30amp on a 14/2. I have TWO 14/2s the previous owner ran from a one 30amp (two 15s) breaker meant to be a 30amp 220. I believe he was going to run a 220 air compressor outlet? Not sure?

I have a small sub panel and thought I could just run the two 14/2 in phase into the panel and put a SINGLE 30amp breaker in. From the responses this sounds to chinsy and not very safe.

The professional I talked to wasnt familiar with RV 30amp 120 and thought I should just extend the 220 routing out to my RV plug. If I listened to him I would fry my RV!
 
You'll need a ground from the sub-panel to the main distribution panel as well.  Get 10/2 with ground.
 
Call an electrician and have a better weekend than it looks like you were going to have.
 
Paulford8 said:
I think you missed read friend. No WAY would I try to run 30amp on a 14/2. I have TWO 14/2s the previous owner ran from a one 30amp (two 15s) breaker meant to be a 30amp 220. I believe he was going to run a 220 air compressor outlet? Not sure?

I have a small sub panel and thought I could just run the two 14/2 in phase into the panel and put a SINGLE 30amp breaker in. From the responses this sounds to chinsy and not very safe.

The professional I talked to wasnt familiar with RV 30amp 120 and thought I should just extend the 220 routing out to my RV plug. If I listened to him I would fry my RV!
Click to expand...

I think you may have a workable plan now.  Your initial post was not to clear on several points and certainly not a confidence builder. ;)

The advantage of running 220v from the main panel to the shed (using proper size and type wire and sub-panel) would be the ability to put in a combination 50/30/20amp service connection that would satisfy current and future needs.  I'm sure with the proper specifications the "professional" could/would understand your requirements.  ....and it would be done to code.
 
aka Porky said:
I think you may have a workable plan now.  Your initial post was not to clear on several points and certainly not a confidence builder. ;)

The advantage of running 220v from the main panel to the shed (using proper size and type wire and sub-panel) would be the ability to put in a combination 50/30/20amp service connection that would satisfy current and future needs.  I'm sure with the proper specifications the "professional" could/would understand your requirements.  ....and it would be done to code.
Click to expand...

My professional is in his mid 50's and has been an electrician since he was a teenager. He believes an RV needs basically an outdoor dryer plug and I am having trouble convincing him otherwise.

From his point of view he knows a great deal about wiring and I know very little. That being case what could I possible know that he doesn't? One thing for sure!

Thanks for everybodies help.
 
Paulford8 said:
My professional is in his mid 50's and has been an electrician since he was a teenager. He believes an RV needs basically an outdoor dryer plug and I am having trouble convincing him otherwise.

From his point of view he knows a great deal about wiring and I know very little. That being case what could I possible know that he doesn't? One thing for sure!

Thanks for everybodies help.
Click to expand...
That's a good deal... as long as your electrician has insurance that will pay for the replacement of your home and everything else that gets lost in a fire that was caused by faulty wiring that your insurance company will not touch.
 
Show your "professional" electrician this web site, particularly the page on 30-Amp service.  An RV 30 amp 120VAC outlet is NOT the same as a 30 amp 220VAC dryer outlet.
 
Ned, good link for the electrical site. Good reference to have just to do a sanity check before the project starts! Thx for posting.
 
My recommendation on RV outlets is to always go with 50 amp.. 

It was mentioned that the professional recommended a 220 volt 30 amp outlet and that would fry the rig.

That is why I recommend running 50. The pros almost never mess that up.. but I've seen post after post after post after post from folks who trusted their electricians on a 30 amp.

Myself, I did a 30 amp outlet.. but I wired it,, I have the skills, I know how to do it and I know it's supposed to be 120 volt, so it was done right.

15GA takes a 15 amp breaker by the way.. Nothing bigger.
 
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