Quality-wise, is one brand motorhome better than another?

Hi all!  We are in the market to purchase a used motorhome, Class A between 30-35' long and have no more than $40,000 to spend.  We will be LIVING in it on the road for the next 2 years.  A dealer told us that you get what you pay for as far as quality goes, which stands to reason.  Is it wrong to purchase low end models (Weekend Warriors, as they say) and then possibly have problems with climate control, flat roof (not rounded) thinner walls and venting, etc. as compared to what we could get for $45-50k? We are worried that if we purchase for less money, we will have problems down the road.  Is it better to buy from a RV dealer as they will check and run everything before they hand it over to us?  Buying privately would be more economical, but my husband and I would feel better if we had it checked by a professional---who would you suggest---an RV dealer mechanic?  Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Confused in Illinois

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your upcoming changes.

I'm sure some of our experts will chime in soon but the dealer probably gave you good advice.  I would certainly suggest getting a professional inspection and you may consider buying an extended warranty to provide a little more peace of mind.  Take your time and look for a coach that seems to fit your needs in terms of floorplan and storage capacity.  There are some good buys both from private parties and dealers right now.

Good luck...

Rick

Marcindy said:

  A dealer told us that you get what you pay for as far as quality goes, which stands to reason.

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I think that is one of the stupidest statements imaginable. You can just the quality by looking at the price tag. How silly. I have seen motorhomes for $40,000 and then found the exact same one for half the price and it was in better condition with less mileage. Spending more money on a motorhome does not mean it will last longer. The condition of the motorhome will tell you a lot more about how long it will last. When you narrow your choices down to one or two motorhomes then pay an independent motorhome mechanic to give you their opinion. That should cost around $100 and will save you thousands if you are picking a lemon.

But it reality it is not that hard to inspect a motorhome yourself. It should drive, shift and park smoothly. Try out every single item in the motorhome and make sure it works. Then buy an extended warranty for complete piece of mind. And don't forget to get CoachNet.

In my opinion, you should look at Holiday Rambler.  I think they are built very well, in general, and use very good products in the construction.  What Tom said also makes sense - whatever you get serious about, check it out well, and get a good roadside assistance package.  One breakdown will more than pay for that.

My wife and I bought a MH without knowing anything about it from a private party.  We were lucky, but if I had known then what I know now I probably would have been able to negotiate a better price.  I've had to spend a few bucks, like replacing tires, and a transmission.  The need to replace tires would have been obvious to anyone who owns a MH, but the transmission may not have been noticed.  Even with the problems I've had I still think I got a good deal. 

I bought an extended warranty for a lot of money from Good Sam that wasn't worth sh.....!  I've decided that it is cheaper to be self insured.  I, however, still have road side assistance from AAA and Good Sam.

I would recommend having it inspected by a professional, or at least someone that has had an a MH for sometime.  There are a lot of systems to go wrong.

Quality-wise, is one brand motorhome better than another?

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Probably.  Generally speaking the so-called "high-end" motorhomes will be better built in places you can't see, such as more insulation or heated utility bays.  When you go inside a motorhome look at what we call fit and finish.  If the drawers are poorly made and don't have full extension glides that tells you something.  If the corners look shoddy, that tells you something.  Look inside the cupboards to see their quality finishing.  In other words, if it looks cheaply built, then it probably is worse in the places you can't see.  We've owned two Lazy Daze class Cs and two Monaco class A diesel pushers and have been very happy with the quality of all four.  A small family-owned business like Lazy Daze will put out a good product or they won't be in business for very long.  Some of the large ones got into trouble financially and went bankrupt, not because they were producing poorly built products, but because they added other lines of business using debt financing and the financial markets collapsed leaving them unable to pay off everything.

The larger motorhome companies tend to have a range from low-end (also called entry level) to high-end.  You will see definite differences from low to high, but if it's a reputable manufacturer the quality of the fit and finish will be decent at both ends.  The materials may change, such as Formica to Corian to granite, but they'll still be put together nicely.  There's been a huge shake-out in the RV industry so what was true five or ten years ago may or may not be true today.  As others have said, take your time and look at a lot manufacturers' products.  Also remember that these companies are making both a house and a motor vehicle.  As much as we would like to have totally defect-free products, it's almost impossible to achieve because both the "house" and the "motor vehicle" can't be totally perfect.  One hopes for minimal problems.  Older used motorhomes probably will have the initial bugs worked out and new ones might take a year to iron out the various issues, hopefully none that are serious.  Good luck in your search!

ArdraF

My 2000 Fleetwood Flair cost 20 K.  No slide but well
equiped for an entry level MH. 
Sure I wanted a Hoilday Rambler that has a glass shower,
longer kitchen, extra closet, flat TV, fancy dash, ect.  but it
was 35 to 40 K. (out of my reach)

I'm surprised of the decent quality the Flair has for being an
entry level MH.  The exterior is as nice as some upper end coaches
and the running gear, furnace, ect.  is the same in many cases.
The decals, paint, and interior were well kept, bright and pleasing
to my eyes on my MH.  For 20 K it works for me. 
PS:  Alot of upper end coaches have their problems too.  Just
read the forums.  Just my view, thank you.

Marcindy said:

Hi all!  We are in the market to purchase a used motorhome, Class A between 30-35' long and have no more than $40,000 to spend.  We will be LIVING in it on the road for the next 2 years.  Thanks, Confused in Illinois

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See the posting that just came up  "Re: AMERICAN COACH TRADITION FOR SALE IN WNC"

This topic comes up fairly often on this forum and it is difficult to answer, IMHO.  For instance, your choice depends to some extent on your age and DIY skills; whether you need to tow a vehicle behind you or not; pets or not; children or not; distance you plan to travel; locations where you want to go; will you be alone most of the time or not; working out of the motorhome or not; etc.  The things that degrade a MH are the sun; lack of maintenance; rough use; high miles; and heavy loads.  It doesn't matter if it was a "high end" coach on day 1 if the prior owner didn't take care of it, left it out in the sun all the time, drove fast over rough roads and carried loads beyond the design levels.  If you find one that you like, stored in a garage, with complete maintenance records and it seems like the owner took excellent care of it... take some pictures, think about the layout, get some expert opinions, post some of your favorites on this forum and then folks will give you some excellent insights... I predict.  There's probably several here that have owned one or two that are just like the one you are considering.  It's a fair amount of work... just finding the ones you like.  Also, think about the market as a national market or at least a multi state region around your area.  Let your friends and relatives know that you are "looking" and ask them to send you some ideas if they know of any.  If you ask around, there are bound to be some MH's available that come highly recommended.  Join the FMCA and get some back issues of their magazine and scrutinize the "for sale" ads.  Yes, and visit some dealers, especially if you know someone who works there.  The good ones go fast so be ready to jump on it when you find it.  It's a little morbid to say it but estate sales can have motorhomes worth considering.

Illinois, like several other states, is in a financial squeeze so there are lots of MHs for sale.  Cash talks... loud and clearly.  Good Luck.

Therwe's been so much posted for you to absorb that I won't add to it, save to say - 'from the floor down, they're all the same' . .same furnaces, same water heaters, same storage compartment (although different sizes, of course). same sewer hook up, same water hookup, and on & on.  Just observe as you wander through.

nbounder said:

Therwe's been so much posted for you to absorb that I won't add to it, save to say - 'from the floor down, they're all the same' . .same furnaces, same water heaters, same storage compartment (although different sizes, of course). same sewer hook up, same water hookup, and on & on.  Just observe as you wander through.

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Not really.  Many have different furnaces (propane furnace vs Aqua Hot, different water heaters, better or worse storage compartment doors. different sewer hook ups (Valterra 3" vs Thetford 3 and 3/4"), and better insulation in the basement, and on and on!!!  Many motorhomes can comfortably be camped in when the temperature is at 0 degrees F while others would be uncomfortable at 30 degrees F.  And then there is the suspension under the compartments.  The following is how mine model was first reviewed when it was tested:  "During our exclusive preview and test-drive of the coach, we noticed that the effect of passing 18-wheelers was hardly noticeable, and body roll was tightly controlled even on winding roads. The motorhome stayed steady while deliberately wandering  off the pavement onto deeply rutted dirt shoulders."  That is how they described the test drive of a 36' Foretravel DP when it was first released in 1991.    My 1994 with 122,000 miles on it still handles like described in the September 1990 issue of Motorhome.  http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/models/Foretravel%201990%20U225%20Grand%20Villa%2036%20-%20Article%20in%20Motorhome%20.pdf.  It has a Foretravel chassis under it.  And the interior is in exceptional condition for a motorhome of that vintage.  So no, they are not all the same!

IMO: The major consideration when purchasing a used RV is present condition.  Will it need a lot of repairs.  Believe it or not, there are people out there who will sell you a rig that has problems and not tell you that it has problems.  ;D  They all have problems........... new rigs too.  But with a used rig you need to be concerned about things like does the fridg still work on 12V, 110V, and propane?  Do the ACs put out cold air.  Check all tires.......... the inside rear duals are a great place to hide worn tires. 

The most important considerations are engine & drive line, and leaks.  Discoloring of interior walls and ceiling are a dead give away.  Look at the outside surfaces especially around all surface penetrations like windows, marker lights, etc.  A bulge indicates de-lamination caused by a leak .............................. R U N  F O R E S T  R U N.

Quality-wise of a used rig is not the most important consideration.  There are many used low end rigs in excellent shape that will serve you for a long time.  There are also a lot of used high end rigs out there that will drain your pocket book very rapidly. 

I lean toward the notion that the MSRP price is a fair indicator of relative construction quality. Generally speaking, better quality materials, better fit and finish, a higher quality job of plumbing and wiring, better brands of electronics, etc. will go into the high end price rigs.  Stuff that is mostly not readily visible. But that doesn't mean a high end rig will be trouble free either.  Appliances will be largely the same, though at the very high end and very low end there will likely be substantial differences.

You are buying used, so condition is of supreme importance. As others have said, good care means a lot in our moving palaces. Still, I would recommend buying a mid to upper end brand (or model within a brand name), even if that means you have to go a few years older than if you chose a lesser brand. Sturdier components and better maintainability will pay off in the long run.

The difficult part for a newbie is to discern where the quality break points are in a model line up. The manufacturers use the same basic design for a family of models, mostly adding trim. At some point in the model line-up, they switch to a higher  level (and price) design and build up from there. Big motorhome manufacturers like Monaco and Fleetwood and Winnebago may have three different base levels within their product line, essentially entry level, mid level and high end.

There are many great used motorhomes out there in your price range.  I know I was just shopping in that range myself.  These are strictly my opinions and your millage may vary.  Like I said we JUST bought our current rig in your price range and also just sold our last rig so I'm familiar with both ends of the sale in today's economy.  It is a buyers market for sure!  The deal I made to sell my rig stung a bit, but the deal I made to buy my Bounder felt pretty darn good!  As for the dealers, I looked at around 10 or so of those and they just have too many people who need a piece of the deal to be competitive right now.  Since they mostly aren't moving volume they need to make it in margin.  At least that was my impression.  Dealer or not, get it inspected by a third party!

Interesting story.  A dealer tells me that all his rigs are going so fast and the used market is exploding that he doesn't even sell new any more the margins just aren't there.  Makes sense since everything on his lot is 40-50% above average retail from NADA.  SO great I tell him since the used market is so awesome you can give me 20% over average retail on my trade.  He couldn't back peddle fast enough out of that one.  We were picky and cheap, so we looked from August through most of February and the first rig we saw was still for sale when we bought what we did.  Very few were sold at all during that time.  The rig we did end up with had a $39996 low retail (no options except mileage) we bought it for 30,000, and we paid 2905 in taxes and transfer/license fees to the wonderful state of California.

I will say that if you plan on living in it for two years, you need something with at least 1 large slide and 34' would be the shortest I would consider.  Our current rig is 37' long (36' 10") and my wife and I together could probably live in it.  If I were looking for something to live in, I'd want a bigger bedroom and probably a slide back there.  Your suggestion of 30 feet, unless it had full wall slide outs, I don't think I could live in that for more than a few weeks. 

As to the quality, We looked at Hurricane's and Storm's and the newer rigs in that product lineup but many of the laminated counter tops had bubbles where water had gotten under the Formica.  For us Formica was just a bad product choice for a motorhome counter.  The laminated counter tops are only one component but that option seemed to be a paradigm shift in manufacturing quality of the rigs we looked at.  If they the builder spent the money to put in good counter tops they seem to have spent more time building the whole rig. 

Some of the models we looked at that would be great in your price range and doable to live in would be:

2000-2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35 or 37 The extra 2 feet seems to mostly be in the bathroom area on that model, so if you don't need a nice bathtub the 35 would be great. (model and color scheme and overhaul from 1999 to 2000 was a pretty big deal.)

2002-2004 Fleetwood Southwind 34 or 37U much of the 3 extra feet in this one is in the living area so the 37U has a HUGE living room. (once again right at a redesign point)

2000-2004 Fleetwoood Bounder 33R or 36U The extra slide outs in the bedroom make those better choices for living in (at least to me)

I would say to start your negotiations at low NADA book with no options.  Interesting thing about options, just because there is a check box for it on the NADA site doesn't mean it didn't come standard on that rig.  Without the original sales slip or the fliers from that year it is impossible to know what was standard and what was optional for that specific rig.  (Fleetwood and Winnebago have their fliers available online to help you out.) 

According to my local rv mechanic their all junk regardless of price !!!

There is a lot of truth in that, at least in an absolute sense.  But if you are going to buy an RV anyway, you may as well get one of the better pieces of junk! 

Check this really nice Monaco out on E-Bay item #120694938135. Less than 19K miles and a great coach. Asking 49,000-I think you can get it for a lot less.

If you're going to  be living in it for a while, you want a high quality unit.

RVs are designed for different purposes.  An entry level unit is one that's designed to be used once in a while - for a couple of weeks vacation, several weekend trips a year, etc.  Not lived in day in and day out.  Most of the time it sits idle, unused, waiting for the next outing.  It's built to a price - what Ardra described as fit and finish.  Cabinetry is cheaply made, dinette cushions are soft foam pads that take a set with extensive use, showers are flimsy plastic that give when you step into them, less insulation in the walls and ceilings, etc.  Plumbing and electrical lines may be run with less precision than a higher end rig. But all of this is less important than the ultimate selling price to someone who's starting out and only wants an RV for occasional use.

Next are the mid-level rigs, designed for more extensive use.  Cabinets and drawers are better built, walls are better insulated, chairs and dinette cushions are more comfortable and more durable, the shower is more substantial, maybe built out of fiberglass instead of thin plastic so the floor doesn't flex and crack when used every day, etc.

Then there's the high end rigs - the palaces on wheels.  The interiors look like a million bucks and everything feels substantial and designed to last a long time - no flimsy stuff here!

If you're looking for a used rig to use fulltime, look at the last two groups, with age being less important than the overall condition of the rig.  An entry level rig won't stand up to the rigors of being lived in every day.  A lightly used mid-range rig can be a better deal than a high end rig that's been heavily used and not maintained properly. 

Good summary, Lou.

If you believe there is a difference in quality and longevity between a Mercedes and a Kia, then you will probably be able to see a difference in quality of motorhomes. If you believe that cars are all just transportation and they all break down at the same rate, then you probably won't see a difference in motorhomes. The saying that you should buy the best you can afford has been around a long time. There just might be something to that. But, then again, Volkswagen has sold more cars than Mercedes.........

... and my last VV bug had over 250,000 miles on the original engine and transmission and was running fine when I sold it.