Noisy Norcold Recall box

I have a 2004 Meridian 36G with a 4 dr 1201 series Norcold frig that the recently installed Recall box is making rapid ticking noise when the temperatures reach 78-82 degrees.  It does this whether operating on shore power or 12 V battery only and Norcold is insinuating that for some reason the frig is receiving dirty 12 V current, or the fans at the top of the cooling coils are causing it.  So far I have heard of only one other RVer with this same problem and no solution.

Does anyone know where the frig on Winnebagos are hooked into 12V current supply, or know where an electrical diagram can be found that might show the current flow.  I probably won't be able to understand a schematic but at least it'll be worth a try.

The shop who installed the Recall wants me to drive back 90 miles and leave the coach with them for as long as it will take for them to do some checking on things during any time the box decides to start clicking.  One day back would be bad enough but don't think I want to leave the coach unattended with them for days or weeks trying to locate this problem.  Either it will just continue doing this forever or the box will eventually die, which then Norcold will have to replace it.  Until then they will not do any parts replacing if things are still operating okay.

Any help or suggestions will be gratefully received.

Allen

Allen,
  Gosh, you really must be frustrated.  What a shame you have this problem.  First, just take off the cover (on the outside of the motor home).  The refrigerator is plugged into a socket on left.  Just unplug it and replug it into an extension cord from another electrical source.  This would give you a "clean" fresh electrical source and would eliminate any interference from an inverter/charger, bad wire connections, etc.  If you still have the noise then you may have to take it back.  Oh, turn off your ice maker to make sure it is not effecting the current.  (Just lift up on the wire on the ice maker).
  When did you have the upgrade done?  They are currently on Version D of the upgrade.  They had problems with version A, B, and C.  They originally installed version A in my motor home, it failed, installed a version C but have told me that I need to come back for Version D.  You can see the version on the little black box they installed on the back of your refrigerator.  If you don't have Version D, I would ask them to change it before you start hunting for more possible problems.
  Let us know if this helps.
>> Dennis

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Fridge control system, including the fail safe all run on +12V. The 110VAC is only for the heat elements.

Jeff is correct.  Changing the source of 120VAC power to the refrigerator won't resolve a problem of dirty 12VDC, but I doubt that's really the problem.  Are you sure it's not a fan hitting something?

Unless I'm missing something there are few sources of noise in a RV refrigerator:
Exhaust fan, should be on the outside under the panel if there is one - often not.
Internal fan, usually not one, but for a 4-door maybe.
Ice maker motor, if you have one, its usually at the rear of the  ice maker and only runs while cubes are being ejected.
                          - Solenoid for the ice maker will be in the small water line
Switching solenoid - probably on the control board and SB solid state.

Try running on propane and then AC. should eliminate switching solenoid. Only energized one position.
Check the exhaust fan visually and clean the exhaust area (stack) ** Most likely problem
Unplug the ice maker and eliminate the motor and solenoid.
Listen w/stethoscope for clicking (ear to screwdriver handle and touch different places to localize sound)

Hope this helps,
Ernie

Ned said:

Jeff is correct.  Changing the source of 120VAC power to the refrigerator won't resolve a problem of dirty 12VDC, but I doubt that's really the problem.  Are you sure it's not a fan hitting something?

Click to expand...

That's what I keep hearing from other Posters and Norcold, BUT I forgot to mention here and have told Norcold, I can hold my hand on the black recall box and feel the vibrations from the clicking.  Surely if it were the fans hitting something I couldn't feel it in the box.  Also aren't the fans mounted high up on the cooling unit almost to the roof?  If it were the fans wouldn't I have been hearing a noise back before the Recall was done?  And as stated above the Box is inserted in the 12 V line going to the frig control unit so that's where the dirty 12V current is supposed to be happening causing the contacts inside the Recall Box to click very very rapidly, kind of like a time bomb just getting ready to go off.

And this is Recall revision "D" installed the first week of March.  And now I've read there is an "E" revision out so guess we can all be prepared for a return to the dealer.

I'm hoping someone of the Forum will come up with an answer to this as Norcold sure isn't.  As I read somewhere else Norcold customer service is like the "Electrux system", it sucks.

Allen

I have an 'A' version and it seems to be working fine. But I've heard a few tales like yours where there have been problems getting it to work right.

Noisy DC lines in an RV are hardly new news and it appears you may have that problem. Basically it is like having AC (alternating current ) superimposed on what should be nice steady DC voltage. I had a fluorescent light in a previous coach that generated noise that affected other things. Turned out to be a bad ballast in the light. Usually they can place a filter on the line to smooth it out, but it would be better to find the source and eliminate it.

Gary RV Roamer said:

I have an 'A' version and it seems to be working fine. But I've heard a few tales like yours where there have been problems getting it to work right.

Noisy DC lines in an RV are hardly new news and it appears you may have that problem. Basically it is like having AC (alternating current ) superimposed on what should be nice steady DC voltage. I had a fluorescent light in a previous coach that generated noise that affected other things. Turned out to be a bad ballast in the light. Usually they can place a filter on the line to smooth it out, but it would be better to find the source and eliminate it.

Click to expand...

Will definitely agree with you Gary, on the problems a fluorescent lights can cause as I've been through that with this coach and my previous one.  When this recall box is clicking very rapidly there is nothing but the frig turned on.  No lights, the ice maker is still off from winterizing, the furnace or air conditioning is not running, the microwave has been removed for repairs.  The comment has been made that it could be the converter but the noise occurs even when on battery only, and it does it on 110V too,  so that should eliminate the converter.  I by-passed the box momentarily today and the noise stops so this also signifies that the noise is definitely coming from the box, besides when I hold my hand against the box it slightly dulls the sound.

I'm hoping more RVers will listen closely to the outside of their coach by the frig vent for this sound and maybe as more show up Norcold will admit they have another problem.

Allen

Our recall box didn't make any noise that I'm aware of, but one day before we were to leave on vacation it up and quit.  Had to drive 40 miles each way to take it to the dealer.  They replaced the box for free.  I just looked to see which version was used and it says Rev E.  I am thinking rev is short for revision??  Hopefully this will be the last of our refrigerator woes. 

There have been several revisions to the recall box. I'm not even sure that 'E" is the last.

"A DMM set to measure AC volts will indeed check for AC ripple, as shown in Figure 2. This is a generally accepted test procedure in the industry. The reading should be less than 0.5 V AC. More than 0.5 V AC is considered excessive ripple due to a defective diode or stator winding in the generator. When ripple voltage is too high, the DC charging voltage is often fairly normal until the generator is loaded down. Then the charging voltage drops below an acceptable level and battery or driveability problems result."

Something I found that may help you in diagnosing the dirty DC question. AC ripple is another name for dirty DC. Instead of the generator being the problem it would be a bad diode in the converter causing the ripple.


Pete

JPete said:

"A DMM set to measure AC volts will indeed check for AC ripple, as shown in Figure 2. This is a generally accepted test procedure in the industry. The reading should be less than 0.5 V AC. More than 0.5 V AC is considered excessive ripple due to a defective diode or stator winding in the generator. When ripple voltage is too high, the DC charging voltage is often fairly normal until the generator is loaded down. Then the charging voltage drops below an acceptable level and battery or driveability problems result."

Something I found that may help you in diagnosing the dirty DC question. AC ripple is another name for dirty DC. Instead of the generator being the problem it would be a bad diode in the converter causing the ripple.


Pete

Click to expand...

Wagonmaster2 stated that it did it when on battery and propane only, this eliminates the converter and the generator.

Try hooking it up to a battery directly with a jumper wire and see if the noise goes away, as this will be a clean DC supply. If it still makes the noise, let Norcold know and try to find a local mobile service tech who can order the pary and install it. You do not have to take it back to the dealer. I have installed half a dozen this year that were defective. Norcold has been very helpful but insist that the part is installed by a trained tech. I am sure liability is the issue behind the tech requirement.

Pete

Update:  I finally managed to get ahold of an installation sheet and found out the technician who installed the box hooked the wrong wire to it.  Not only was the box making the clicking noise but I begin to notice I was never hearing my frig cooling fans running while standing outside by the vent door.  The wire from the frig that goes in/out of the box is supposed to be the 12V one but the one they used measured milivolts.  Once I connected to correct wire to the box everything started working like it should and no more noise.  I'm sure the way it was originally wired up the box was doing no good at all  for a safety feature.

Wagonmaster2

Congrats.. Glad everything worked out well.

Pete

That's why I like to work on my own rig whenever possible.  I know it was not in this instance, but these stories are not uncommon....

From all the recommendations I thought I had found a reliable shop for any work that I don't feel comfortable doing myself such as replacing the slide-out room nylon bushings or replacing the cooling unit on my Norcold frig, but after incurring a screwed-up recall box wiring now I'm not so sure.  Still haven't decided whether or not to inform the shop service manager what happened and see if he has a reasonable explanation (such as the individual who did my work was a novice and no longer with the shop).  If I do I probably won't be able to go back even if I'd decide to.

By the way, the box was making the clicking noise whether the coach was operating on shore power, generator, or 12V battery power.  Norcold was trying to suggest using a separate battery to eliminate any convertor problems but that just didn't seem logical to me.  It wasn't until one of the Posters e-mailed me his installation instructions that I realized the real problem.  I should have asked for the instruction sheet when the box was installed but who would have thought a shop could screw up something any 10 year-old could probably have installed.

Allen

Wagonmaster2 said:

I should have asked for the instruction sheet when the box was installed but who would have thought a shop could screw up something any 10 year-old could probably have installed.

Allen

Click to expand...

Eh, Yup..........