PJ Stough
Well-known member
You mean the add about the "scooter chair" is not accurate? Who would have think it. 
Paul
Paul
Health Insurance
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Hi All
Also note that you are still able to have medical attention when you are unemployed and not paying your taxes, as this is part of the NHS system, it covers you when unemployed and retired. Also unlike insurance companies, when if you have a long standing or serious condition, the NHS still treats you.
Also note that you are still able to have medical attention when you are unemployed and not paying your taxes, as this is part of the NHS system, it covers you when unemployed and retired. Also unlike insurance companies, when if you have a long standing or serious condition, the NHS still treats you.
Utclmjmpr
Well-known member
Its obvious that under those conditions the cost for "everyone" must go up. (Then you have the people that learn to "play" the system)>>>D
SteveRocket
Well-known member
the cost for everyone does not have to go up. The NHS has the ability to buy in very large bulk and force the drug companies to sell drugs at a sensible price that is fair to all involved. I am not saying the NHS does it because it does not, it is very badly run in most cases. If you take out the need to make a profit like our insurance companies here do the price per person should be reasonable. Here we have the issue of those who are uninsured going to hospital that will not or can't pay and the hospital passes that cost to the insured by way of premiums. So when you look at it in both systems those who are paying in are paying for those who are not. A difference with the NHS is anyone who has a job has to pay in at sometime in their working lives. Like I say not perfect but better than letting people die because the don't have money and bankrupting the ones that work and save and then someone gets ill and it's has it all taken by medical bills.
Steve
Steve
F
FrankNSharon
Guest
UtahClaimJumper,
That would seem to be obvious, but in fact the opposite is true. All studies show that in the US we pay twice what they pay. The problem here is that our system is for profit, so:
1. Doctors run tests that aren't always needed, because they bought a new MRI machine and want to make a PROFIT on it.
2. Many times additional tests are run to protect against malpractice lawsuits.
3. Currently Medicare, the LARGEST buyer of prescription drugs in our country is NOT allow to get competitive bids for a better price, so the drug companies can make a fair "PROFIT".
4. Often drug companies will make slight modifications to existing drugs and sell them as a new drug treatment with "improved results". The reason is because the drug they have been selling is now allowed to be made by other companies as a generic - so they lose PROFIT.
5. Private insurance companies contribute NOTHING to improving your health, but rake off 15% in PROFIT of the money spent on health care costs.
6. (And to the point of this thread) Preexisting conditions are excluded from insurance coverage because there chance of future episodes is greater than someone who has not had it - whatever it is. So, the PROFIT is reduced for the Insurance company, which is doing NOTHING to help keep you healthy, and everything to hope you die young, because as you get older you spend more on healthcare - reducing their PROFITS.
7. To repeat the last sentence above - it is in the insurance companies best interest to NOT provide preventative health care, and to deny claims for people as they get older, the sooner you die, the more profit they make! Think about it...
Through out our system the PROFIT motive drives cost up. Healthcare should be a right. Guaranteed for every citizen. The ability to pay should not determine who lives and who dies.
That would seem to be obvious, but in fact the opposite is true. All studies show that in the US we pay twice what they pay. The problem here is that our system is for profit, so:
1. Doctors run tests that aren't always needed, because they bought a new MRI machine and want to make a PROFIT on it.
2. Many times additional tests are run to protect against malpractice lawsuits.
3. Currently Medicare, the LARGEST buyer of prescription drugs in our country is NOT allow to get competitive bids for a better price, so the drug companies can make a fair "PROFIT".
4. Often drug companies will make slight modifications to existing drugs and sell them as a new drug treatment with "improved results". The reason is because the drug they have been selling is now allowed to be made by other companies as a generic - so they lose PROFIT.
5. Private insurance companies contribute NOTHING to improving your health, but rake off 15% in PROFIT of the money spent on health care costs.
6. (And to the point of this thread) Preexisting conditions are excluded from insurance coverage because there chance of future episodes is greater than someone who has not had it - whatever it is. So, the PROFIT is reduced for the Insurance company, which is doing NOTHING to help keep you healthy, and everything to hope you die young, because as you get older you spend more on healthcare - reducing their PROFITS.
7. To repeat the last sentence above - it is in the insurance companies best interest to NOT provide preventative health care, and to deny claims for people as they get older, the sooner you die, the more profit they make! Think about it...
Through out our system the PROFIT motive drives cost up. Healthcare should be a right. Guaranteed for every citizen. The ability to pay should not determine who lives and who dies.
S
seilerbird
Guest
FrankNSharon said:
I think they are doing mankind a service. This planet is too overcrowded anyway.
sheltie
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mrschwarz said:
Did you have any military service? If so, I'd check with the VA to see what current alternatives they MAY have. Not to rub it in as that isn't my intention, but I'm on the other spectrum from you. Until Medicare kicked in I had TRICARE for $230 per year. After I retired from the military, that covered me even through my civilian job. When I reached 65, TRICARE became my secondary insurance. Not only that but my company set up a health annuity for me. Bottom line, I have ZERO health expenses - ever. That's for me and my wife. Am I blessed? You bet I am and I know it. Anyway, I'm guessing you didn't have any military service, but if you did, check it out.
OP
OP
mrschwarz
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No military service. I can go for COBRA which will get me part way there, but I assumed it would be even more, maybe not. Based on research COBRA is good for 18 months if I retire (quit). If I can talk them into laying me off, I can get 3 years, which is what I need.
Insurance companies won't be required to insure adults with re-existing conditions until 2014, so I can get a year from that, too. I guess I have a few options to explore. Hopefully the national debate on this will continue. What we have now is broken. Letting the insurance companies' lobbyists andtheir lackeys Congress 'fix' it for us isn't encouraging to me, but I may be a cynic.
I am not sure how we will get out of the mess we're in.
Insurance companies won't be required to insure adults with re-existing conditions until 2014, so I can get a year from that, too. I guess I have a few options to explore. Hopefully the national debate on this will continue. What we have now is broken. Letting the insurance companies' lobbyists and
I am not sure how we will get out of the mess we're in.
F
FrankNSharon
Guest
Michael,
Sounds like you could wait to retire until COBRA would cover you (18 months) until 2014 so you can then get regular insurance and they can't deny it because of pre-existing conditions.
It is sad that someone that works their entire life has to be put into the situation you are in. Yes, the current system is broken, unless your name is Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, then it is the best in the world.
Frank
Sounds like you could wait to retire until COBRA would cover you (18 months) until 2014 so you can then get regular insurance and they can't deny it because of pre-existing conditions.
It is sad that someone that works their entire life has to be put into the situation you are in. Yes, the current system is broken, unless your name is Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, then it is the best in the world.
Frank
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mrschwarz
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FrankNSharon said:
Yes. I could do that or work until I am 65. My goal is to retire at the end of 2012, if I can figure out how to do it.
gwcowgill
Well-known member
I was in Thailand several years ago and had to go to the ER. After X-Rays, Doctor and the medication ( Turned out to be Kidney stones) my cost was US $20.00 . Another time I went to ER after a fall, again X-Rays, Doctor, cast and some pain meds US $20.00. I know the government subsidizes healthcare there and they have no medical lawsuits so explain what gives here. Bumregard hospital in Bankkok (Often a destination for US citizens without healthcare) several years ago was reportedly doing open heart surgery for US$350.00. That is supposed to be one of the top rated hospitals in the world. I like someone else mentioned was on Tricare for awhile before I finally decided to permanently retire and till I was eligible for medicare. I am blessed with no medical bills.
Tom
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[quote author=Anthony4]The taxes are nit that bad, basic tax is 20%, but that's only payable after the threshold of about ?4970, and National Insurance is 12%, again there is a threshold before you start paying the 12%...[/quote]
That's 32% income tax at the lowest bracket. You omitted petrol (gas) tax and duty of 120p/liter ($1.98 per US gallon) and 20% VAT (sales tax) on most things you buy in the stores.
There's a reason there are so many UK tax exiles in the US
That's 32% income tax at the lowest bracket. You omitted petrol (gas) tax and duty of 120p/liter ($1.98 per US gallon) and 20% VAT (sales tax) on most things you buy in the stores.
There's a reason there are so many UK tax exiles in the US
Water Dog
Well-known member
Your government health plan will have the efficiency of the Post Office and the compassion of the IRS at Pentagon prices.
OP
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mrschwarz
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Water Dog said:
And this is different than what we have today?
Jim Godward
Well-known member
You obviously have not hit Medicare yet. They are cutting allowable tests and decreasing payments for any procedure. Several Dr's. here are closing their practices in Dec. this year unless things change for the better. My wife needs a test and because she had it 2 years ago, they won't pay for it now even to diagnose a problem. Lots of fun. Thanks for our retiree plan from her company!!
Tom
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[quote author=Paul & Ann]You mean the add about the "scooter chair" is not accurate? Who would have think it. [/quote]
LOL Paul. I arranged for one for an elderly neighbor after she fell and broke her hip. Didn't cost her a penny. I also arranged for ramps to be built both outside and between step-downs/ups inside the house. She's got to be a pretty good driver, and whizzes around the place using the joystick ;D
[/quote]LOL Paul. I arranged for one for an elderly neighbor after she fell and broke her hip. Didn't cost her a penny. I also arranged for ramps to be built both outside and between step-downs/ups inside the house. She's got to be a pretty good driver, and whizzes around the place using the joystick ;D
Well since Medicare has announced that the payments for service to Doctors will be reduced, my family Doctor has decided to not accept any new Medicare patients. At least he will continue seeing the ones he has at present. I imagine that there will be more doctors following suit, which will lower the number of doctors available to Medicare patients even more. I am retired Military, and the free medical we were promised upon retirement never materialized. I pay for Medicare part B and Tri-Care takes care of the copay.
Gary
Yes, that's 32% but like I said you do not start paying until you have earned a certain amount, so it is not as bad as it sounds, that applies both for income tax and national insurance, you have an initial allowance before you start paying. So while on the face of it 32% sounds a lot, it actually is not so bad, and you get good treatment, and you will not be refused to be treated for long term conditions, unlike insurance companies. Whats the cost of good medical insurance in the USA? and for your medicines?
Yes, that's 32% but like I said you do not start paying until you have earned a certain amount, so it is not as bad as it sounds, that applies both for income tax and national insurance, you have an initial allowance before you start paying. So while on the face of it 32% sounds a lot, it actually is not so bad, and you get good treatment, and you will not be refused to be treated for long term conditions, unlike insurance companies. Whats the cost of good medical insurance in the USA? and for your medicines?
Hi All
The allowance is for every one, and low earners benefit, as they will pay very little or NO taxes.
Whilst it may not be paradise, it certainly does work, don't for get if you do not work or have retired you still are seen to know matter what is wrong with you, also you do not have to pay for your medicines if you are retired, so you can have lots of pills and it wont cost you a dime.
Also there are other benefits, such as if your mother or father have say a eye condition like glaucoma, then all the family can have eye tests for free.
The allowance is for every one, and low earners benefit, as they will pay very little or NO taxes.
Whilst it may not be paradise, it certainly does work, don't for get if you do not work or have retired you still are seen to know matter what is wrong with you, also you do not have to pay for your medicines if you are retired, so you can have lots of pills and it wont cost you a dime.
Also there are other benefits, such as if your mother or father have say a eye condition like glaucoma, then all the family can have eye tests for free.
F
FrankNSharon
Guest
Tom,
Only 32% - not that bad - here is an example here:
Gross Employee Pay $4,037
Federal Withholding Tax $682
Medicare Employee Tax $52
Social Security Employee Tax $233
CA Withholding Tax $190
CA Disability Employee Tax $30
TOTAL Withheld From Employee $1,193
Net Take Home Pay $2,557
Medicare Employer Tax $54
Social Security Employer Tax $233
TOTAL Employer Tax $287
TOTAL Wages TAX $1,480
Tax Rate On Wages 37%
Of course that only counts the taxes paid on income and does not include all the hidden taxes - fuel, land, etc. etc. etc. But, Everyone everywhere pays all those also...
Other Taxes
8% Sales Tax on 60% of Net Take-home Pay $123
1% Property Tax Ave Home Value of $500K $417
Telephone Tax $19
Road Tax $31
Gas Tax $29
Other Tax Total $619
Tax Rate on Other Taxes 15%
TOTAL TAX $2,099
Actual Total Tax Rate 52%
And there are still more, like cell phone disposal tax, tire disposal tax, battery core charge tax, etc. etc. etc... but those vary so I left them out.
The point is the US tax rate is not that much lower than the other countries that do provide universal healthcare. And if like me, you count the HIGH cost of medical procedures which are high in order to pay for emergency room care of people without insurance, insurance companies profits and pharmco companies obscene profits as a form of tax, then we actually pay much more than the rest of the world.
Frank
Only 32% - not that bad - here is an example here:
Gross Employee Pay $4,037
Federal Withholding Tax $682
Medicare Employee Tax $52
Social Security Employee Tax $233
CA Withholding Tax $190
CA Disability Employee Tax $30
TOTAL Withheld From Employee $1,193
Net Take Home Pay $2,557
Medicare Employer Tax $54
Social Security Employer Tax $233
TOTAL Employer Tax $287
TOTAL Wages TAX $1,480
Tax Rate On Wages 37%
Of course that only counts the taxes paid on income and does not include all the hidden taxes - fuel, land, etc. etc. etc. But, Everyone everywhere pays all those also...
Other Taxes
8% Sales Tax on 60% of Net Take-home Pay $123
1% Property Tax Ave Home Value of $500K $417
Telephone Tax $19
Road Tax $31
Gas Tax $29
Other Tax Total $619
Tax Rate on Other Taxes 15%
TOTAL TAX $2,099
Actual Total Tax Rate 52%
And there are still more, like cell phone disposal tax, tire disposal tax, battery core charge tax, etc. etc. etc... but those vary so I left them out.
The point is the US tax rate is not that much lower than the other countries that do provide universal healthcare. And if like me, you count the HIGH cost of medical procedures which are high in order to pay for emergency room care of people without insurance, insurance companies profits and pharmco companies obscene profits as a form of tax, then we actually pay much more than the rest of the world.
Frank
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