4G vs 3G

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Molaker

Molaker

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I guess I need a lesson in bandwidth as it pertains to wireless data.  I can certainly understand the advantages of 4G over 3G, but which uses the most bandwidth - 10 MB at 3G rate or 10 MB at 4G rate or does it make any difference?  Is there a lower cost per GB delivered for the provider?
 
Technically, bandwidth is the amount of data that can be passed along a communications channel in a given period of time, so a 4G channel has a higher bandwidth than a 3G channel, if both are running at their specified rates.  Since both 4G and 3G provider equipment are probably being fed by the same connections to the internet backbones, the direct cost is the same for a specified amount of data.
 
10 MB uses 10 MB of bandwidth, no matter how fast or how slow.
 
seilerbird said:
10 MB uses 10 MB of bandwidth, no matter how fast or how slow.
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DUH??  Ain't necessarily so.  Bandwidth does reference the bit RATE, not the total VOLUME.  I'll admit that it is difficult to explain the difference in 100 words or less. 
 
aka Porky said:
DUH??  Ain't necessarily so.  Bandwidth does reference the bit RATE, not the total VOLUME.  I'll admit that it is difficult to explain the difference in 100 words or less.
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You are correct, you don't have to explain it. But in reality his question is regarding monthly data transfer and that is what Verizon is measuring. In that case 10 mb is 10 mb with either 3G or 4G.
 
aka Porky said:
DUH??  Ain't necessarily so.  Bandwidth does reference the bit RATE, not the total VOLUME.  I'll admit that it is difficult to explain the difference in 100 words or less. 
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I did above.  Bandwidth is very misunderstood, with most people using it, incorrectly, to refer to the amount of data.
 
Ned said:
I did above.  Bandwidth is very misunderstood, with most people using it, incorrectly, to refer to the amount of data.
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LOL, yes you did Ned, (71, but who's counting?). ;) :D ;D

Folks would have a better understanding of "bandwidth" if they had lived through the days when we tried to send sent real-time telemetry data at 150-300 Baud.
 
I don't think I'm a total dufus on the subject, but I am getting old...

What's confusing, me anyway, is the dual meaning of the term bandwidth as it applies to wireless technology.  There is the analog bandwidth of the RF being transmitted back and forth and the digital bandwidth of the data contained in that transmission.  The problem I'm having is that to gain a higher data rate (digital bandwidth) would seem to require a higher analog bandwidth because analog bandwidth is essentially a description of the half-power points of the sidebands and I was taught you had to broaden (analog) bandwidth to increase frequency (old pulse & squarewave stuff).  Yet, somehow they seem to be pushing 10 times (plus) greater data bandwidth down the same size pipe (roughly same analog bandwidth).

Then to get down to brass tacks as to why I was asking, it stems from the answer I got from Verizon as to why my signal level varies so much when there is high traffic volume.  I can understand packet data backing up and having to wait its turn, thus slow digital data rate.  But, how in heck does that impact an RF transceiver/transponder signal level?

Sure wish I knew what I used to know...
 
You have to get into the modulation schemes to understand how data rates correlate to frequency.  It's not just one to one any more :)
 
Ned said:
You have to get into the modulation schemes to understand how data rates correlate to frequency.  It's not just one to one any more :)
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Something like the old Sparrow missile where the CW was phase modulated by an amplitude modulated frequency modulation?
 
Molaker said:
Something like the old Sparrow missile where the CW was phase modulated by an amplitude modulated frequency modulation?
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I worked at Raytheon in the 60s and we built Sparrow missles.
 
Molaker said:
Something like the old Sparrow missile where the CW was phase modulated by an amplitude modulated frequency modulation?
Click to expand...

Something like that, but completely different :)
 
Here's the real life, bottom line, definition of bandwidth that really counts.  Am I over my 5GB allotment yet?  If so, I owe them another 10 bucks!

JerryF
 
Ned said:
Something like that, but completely different :)
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There may be slight differences in the frequency and/or amplitude modulation techniques, as well as sampling and compression algorithms with enhanced routing and switching capabilities, but otherwise, exactly the same. Or different. :D

I can't 'splain it no clearer than that..... ???
 
Lou, you took the words right out of my mouth ;)
 
aka Porky said:
There may be slight differences in the frequency and/or amplitude modulation techniques, as well as sampling and compression algorithms with enhanced routing and switching capabilities, but otherwise, exactly the same. Or different. :D

I can't 'splain it no clearer than that..... ???
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Okay, I got it.  It's exactly the same only different...with a little voodoo thrown in.  Maybe this explains the weird explanations I sometimes get from customer service - they don't know either.
 
Actually, I like Jerry's definition.  Fact modulated with humor (or was it humor over fact?)
 
What about looking at it like a submarine's sonar?  Submarines use low frequency long waves to penetrate longer distances in the water before complete lose of signal.  4G at 700-750 should penetrate through the air and obstacles, such as trees, better than the 1800-1950 of 3G

JerryF
 
But you're not buying bandwidth, your buying quantities of data.  I really hate the misuse of terminology.
 
JerArdra said:
What about looking at it like a submarine's sonar?  Submarines use low frequency long waves to penetrate longer distances in the water before complete lose of signal.  4G at 700-750 should penetrate through the air and obstacles, such as trees, better than the 1800-1950 of 3G

JerryF
Click to expand...

Awh! Jerry, did ya have to go and git all technical on us?
 
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