Shoreline Power problem

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but if he changes out the double 30 breaker and installs a single pole 30 amp, is that all that's required?
NO!!! He wired two hots to the 30A plug, whereas it should have a hot and a neutral.  When he removes the double 30A breaker, he also has to connect one of the two wires to the neutral bar on the load center.

He's a pro electrician, sop he should know that. But he also should have known that was not a 240v receptacle he was wiring. It says so right on it. Duh!!!

DO hold him responsible for damages to your RV - there are almost assuredly some electrical components that will no longer work. Starting with the converter/charger but possibkle extending to tvs, microwave, VCR/DVD players, etc. Check EVERYTHING thoroughly!
 
Tony_Alberta said:
What make and model of converter?  Depending on age of RV folks here may have some suggestions on units that do proper charging.
The converter was made by Progressive Dynamics. I contacted them, it's a series 6300A, model 6332. They're shipping a new one, it'll be here Wednesday. By the time I had someone fool with it, get the required parts, etc. honestly I figured it'd be cheaper in the long run to simply replace it. The electrician pulled the converter today and tested the board etc. - there were a number of problems with blown caps, blown fuses, blown resistors, etc. etc. so IMHO, it just made sense to replace it. I do have the new sgl. pole 30 amp breaker here, and he'll wire that as 120v 30 amp after we get the new converter back in. Once we get everything back together, I'll check the systems as far as operation, but as I said, the TV wasn't plugged in, the refrig. was set to off, etc. The microwave I'm not sure about, but as someone else mentioned, there should be an in-line fuse if it doesn't work. All I'm hoping is that with everything that "blew", there were enough internal protections so that nothing else got messed up. Finally, this was actually more my fault than the electricans, so I'm willing to eat the cost. Had this happened at an RV repair facility, I'd be a lot more PO'ed about it (I'm more PO'ed at myself right now, truth be known). To be honest, I had intended on replacing the microwave anyway, it was the original one, and didn't even have a turn-table...I can pick one up at Sears for about $50. I guess what surprised me out of all of this is that the plug configuration will plug into a 240v dryer receptacle, it's the same configuration. Honestly, that was my mistake, and I'm not sure if there's anything on the exterior box/receptacle that indicates it's for a 30amp 110v, however, I will look at it when we do the replacement and re-wiring.
 
jimmie123 said:
I guess what surprised me out of all of this is that the plug configuration will plug into a 240v dryer receptacle, it's the same configuration. Honestly, that was my mistake, and I'm not sure if there's anything on the exterior box/receptacle that indicates it's for a 30amp 110v, however, I will look at it when we do the replacement and re-wiring.

jimmie, if you have a plug on your shore power cord that will plug into a 240 volt dryer recep., then you have the wrong plug on your shore power cord. It should have two angled flat prongs and a round one, and say 120 volts, 30 amps on it. Be sure you have the right plug and matching recepticle when you're through or you will wind up with problems down the road....like plugging in at camp sites, and someone not knowing what's going on plugging you in to 240v again.
 
I guess what surprised me out of all of this is that the plug configuration will plug into a 240v dryer receptacle, it's the same configuration.

No, it won't.  The TT-30 120 volt RV socket has a round ground pin.  The NEMA 10-30 240 volt dryer socket has a L - shaped ground pin.  The plug for one socket won't fit into the other, by design.

The problem is the sockets are very close in appearance, especially from the back.  They're both the same size, the screw terminals are in the same locations, they both mount the same way, etc.  A typical electrician has seen dozens if not hundreds of the 240 volt dryer outlets over the years, but may not have had the opportunity to wire the 120 volt trailer version.

The outlet should have the NEMA number (TT-30 or RV-30), voltage and current molded into the plastic.  Usually it's on the back side - you probably won't see any markings on the front.
 
If anyone is to blame it is the stupid RV manufacturers for using a non-standard 30 amp 110 volt receptacle and plug. They should have used a 30 amp 220 volt standard receptacle and plug since day one. Then there would never be a problem.
 
Lou Schneider said:
No, it won't.  The TT-30 120 volt RV socket has a round ground pin.  The NEMA 10-30 240 volt dryer socket has a L - shaped ground pin.  The plug for one socket won't fit into the other, by design.

The outlet should have the NEMA number (TT-30 or RV-30), voltage and current molded into the plastic.  Usually it's on the back side - you probably won't see any markings on the front.

Hi Lou...I guess if there's anything "good" about this it's the fact that we did manage to get the "right" box/receptacle. There's a very experienced guy at Home Depot who took us right to it and said that "This is the box the RV'ers are using". As I've said, I bear the responsibility on this - I'm the idiot who told Jim (the electrician) it was 240...Jim admitted that he should have taken a look at the converter prior to wiring the receptacle, but figured I knew what the requirements were. He's a really good electrician as well as being a neighbor...when he took the converter out yesterday, he used his Fluke meter and immediately began giving me the litany of what had blown etc. so he's fairly knowledgeable. Jim does feel pretty bad about what happened and said that when the new converter comes in will be over to install it, and re-wire the service panel for 30 amp 110v to the outside receptacle. I called Progressive Dynamics to order the new converter and put Jim on the phone to ask whatever he needed to know prior to the order...As I said, it's an expensive lesson for me and one I won't be forgetting.
 
seilerbird said:
If anyone is to blame it is the stupid RV manufacturers for using a non-standard 30 amp 110 volt receptacle and plug. They should have used a 30 amp 220 volt standard receptacle and plug since day one. Then there would never be a problem.

I don't know of any 220V RV appliances, so how would that work?
 
They should have used a 30 amp 220 volt standard receptacle and plug since day one.

It wouldn't have worked. At best, it would probably have added to the confusion. People do make mistakes, even people that are licensed in their trade. At least it sounds like they're trying to work together to solve the issues and not just blaming each other for the mistake. If they're neighbors, and very possibly friends, that may be more important than whose at fault.
 
People do make mistakes, even people that are licensed in their trade. At least it sounds like they're trying to work together to solve the issues and not just blaming each other for the mistake. If they're neighbors, and very possibly friends, that may be more important than whose at fault.

Well said Bill. Goes along with this web sites philosophy, "The friendliest place on the web"


Jay T
 
Ned said:
I don't know of any 220V RV appliances, so how would that work?
220 is composed of two 110 volt legs. It would work just fine. You don't have to have 220 appliances to use a 220 service. 50 amp is 220 and it works just fine.
 
seilerbird said:
220 is composed of two 110 volt legs. It would work just fine. You don't have to have 220 appliances to use a 220 service. 50 amp is 220 and it works just fine.

Why would you ever want 220 anywhere near a 30amp/110v coach?
 
A 220V 30A outlet has no neutral thus no 110V legs, just one 220V, so it won't work.  A 50A RV outlet has 2 120VAC hot legs and a neutral.  No wonder electricians get it wrong, they don't understand anything about RV wiring.
 
Ned said:
A 220V 30A outlet has no neutral thus no 110V legs, just one 220V, so it won't work.  A 50A RV outlet has 2 120VAC hot legs and a neutral.  No wonder electricians get it wrong, they don't understand anything about RV wiring.
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-071-00278-000-Flush-Mount-Receptacle/dp/B00009W3A9/ref=sr_1_10?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313936915&sr=1-10

The neutral is the L shaped inlet on the bottom. And there is no 220, only two 110 volt legs. No wonder computer technicians get it wrong, they don't know a thing about electrical wiring. There is no need for you to be so rude Ned, this is suppose to be the friendliest place on the web for RVers. You are not being friendly making rude remarks like that. 
 
You did say "a 30 amp 220 volt standard receptacle" which most people, including most electricians, would understand to be a 220V dryer or welder outlet with no neutral.  That's what got the OP in trouble originally.

The reason they don't wire RVs with those is the cost is greater, and an RV with that only needs 30A doesn't need 2 legs of 30A, just one.  If the RV needs more power, then it's wired for 50A with 2 legs.

And as I've said before, it's not always all about you.
 
The problem for electricians is the TT30 receptacle is rare, in fact, as far as I know, the only 30 amp 120v connector currently available.  A careful electrician won't make assumptions, will check the requirements for the load as well as the color coding (if any) on the connector terminals and wire it properly.  The problem is some jump to the conclusion that 30 amps means 240V. As the owner of a 30 amp RV, I strongly suggest that if you are having an electrician, friend, or whoever install a receptacle for your RV, make sure they check the nameplate where the power cord enters the RV for the voltage requirements.  (I know many older RVs won't have one in which case pulling the cover on the RV's breaker panel will show the obvious, at least to an electrician.)

As to 30A,  240V receptacles, there are a number of configurations, some with 2 hots & a ground, some with 2 hots, a ground & a neutral and some with 2 hots & a combined ground/neutral.  For many years it was code to wire a dryer with a 30 amp 3 pole receptacle - 2 hots & a combined neutral/ground.  This was only allowed if the run was to the service entrance panel, the location where the neutral is bonded to ground.

If the same dryer was fed from a sub panel or installed in a trailer (which was usually connected as a sub panel rather than wired as a service entrance panel), the dryer had to have the internal bonding jumper removed, the whip changed to a 4 wire & a 4 pole receptacle with a separate ground & neutral installed. 

This got confusing, and current code requires a 4 pole connector for any dryer (or stove) installation no matter where it is fed from.  This hasn't solved the confusion, since the code is grandfathered, that is an older house may have the 3 pole connector while a new one has 4.  The appliance installer must still have both whips, and know about connecting/disconnecting the ground bonding jumper at the dryer's neutral. Unfortunately, many installers don't understand the difference between the two systems, and either use the wrong whip, or the incorrect use of the bonding jumper in the dryer. If the bonding jumper is left connecting the ground to neutral in a 4 wire system, the case of the dryer will be at neutral potential, creating a shock hazard.

The end result for RVers is that connecting a 50 amp RV to a 4 pole dryer connection is OK (of course it will be under powered and you will need to make an adapter) while connecting it to an older 3 pole is unsafe because you will put the frame of the RV at Neutral potential rather than ground. No adapter can safely split out the ground/neutral tie that the 3 pole connector provides.
 
Ned said:
You did say "a 30 amp 220 volt standard receptacle" which most people, including most electricians, would understand to be a 220V dryer or welder outlet with no neutral.  That's what got the OP in trouble originally.

The reason they don't wire RVs with those is the cost is greater, and an RV with that only needs 30A doesn't need 2 legs of 30A, just one.  If the RV needs more power, then it's wired for 50A with 2 legs.

And as I've said before, it's not always all about you.
So why must you be so rude and insult me?
 
JayT said:
Forum Staff Member..... Hmmm

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing

We can be "friendly" and still only allow grown ups in the deep end of the pool.  JMHO
 
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