Talbot Express (Autohome) Calypso power socket

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Earlier this year I bought a nice condition 1991 Calypso motor home. Next to the Zig power panel there is a two pin polarised 12 volt socket.

Does anyone know if the mating plug is still available somewhere? They used to be very common in the 1960's!

Or better to replace with car lighter style sockets like my Fleetwood Jamboree?

Thanks

Geoff and Sally Tanner

[Geoff_T]

Hi

When I am next in the UK I am just going to replace it with a regular car lighter socket...

Seems like finding a plug for the original is a lost cause...

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

Geoff,

Do you have a picture you could post?

[Geoff_T]

Hi Tom

The one in this photo... I still think replacing it might be easiest though I could make an adaptor cable if I could find a plug to suit.

Best regards

Geoff and Sally

[Lou Schneider]

The spacing seems about right for a US style non-polarized 120 volt plug like this one, if you twist the blades a bit.  I did that when I visited AU a few years back to fit a US plug into their 240 volt outlets and it worked fine.

Avoid the polarized version of the US plugs - these have one blade larger than the other and probably won't fit.

[Tom]

That's what I was thinking Lou, which made me wonder if it is a 12V socket, or a 120 (or 240V) socket. If 12V, might be easier to just install a regular 12V/cig lighter socket.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Thanks Tom and Lou but the connector is about 3/4" square if you compare to other equipment on the panel. Decades ago you used to be able to buy similar from Halfords as a pair. As it's 12v I think I will go with the lighter socket... the panel is cut away and easy to get hand behind to tighten nut, etc.

Best regards

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

Sounds good Geoff. Sorry we weren't much help.

Good old Halfords; Are they still around?

[Geoff_T]

Hi Tom

Well, Kinda, Sorta...... http://www.halfords.com/

But when I was a lad you could buy actual pattern parts like Norton motorcycle silencers (mufflers out here) and all those ash trays and plastic flower miniature vases with rubber suckers.

Later I recall buying a dry fully recharged car battery that came with six plastic bottles of concentrated suphuric acid... worked great but imagine selling that now!

 

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

Thanks Geoff. That's certainly a different Halfords from the one I recall from my younger days. They didn't really have much (any?) competition.

... pattern parts like Norton motorcycle silencers

I wasn't that lucky with my Velocette. Halfords didn't even sell the Miller electrics. Every winter I'd hit black ice on the windy twisty mountain road I took to work, and I'd inevitably end up sliding on my backside, following the bike down the road. A small bike shop in another town kept the Miller headlights in stock just for me 

.... a dry fully recharged car battery that came with six plastic bottles of concentrated suphuric acid...

That's still how I buy batteries for jet skis and dinghies (tenders). Amazing, given all the environmental restrictions in California.

[Geoff_T]

Hi Tom

I always wanted a Velocette but, as a young apprentice, could not stretch to that kind of budget. I had scores of BSA Bantams from D3 to D10 that I did up (horrible machines!), a Triumph Tiger Cub and and BSA C15.
I still have a UK motorcycle licence but my wife won't let me buy a motorcycle as she sees the paraplegic results in the hospital she works at. I never had a really serious fall off a motorbike... never broken a bone in my body... touch wood.

Best regards

Geoff and Sally

[SuperMike]

That socket was used a lot in older style British Caravans and should still be available, from any decent Caravan Accessory Shop, in the UK.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Next time I am in the UK I will try to find, albeit I still lean towards the universal lighter socket path.

I was born in Watford and used to take the (steam) train to St Albans. I visited the cathedral there a couple of years ago.. brings back memories!

 

Geoff and Sally

[SuperMike]

Hi

Next time I am in the UK I will try to find, albeit I still lean towards the universal lighter socket path.

I was born in Watford and used to take the (steam) train to St Albans. I visited the cathedral there a couple of years ago.. brings back memories!

 

Geoff and Sally

Ah the old Abbey Flyer, now replaced by an electric. Still got the conductor on it. All the kids, still play dodge the conductor and save the money for sweets (candy), if they get away with it.     Now that's what being a kid is all about.   

[Geoff_T]

Hi

That's odd... I left Watford for the Cambridge area around 1971 and the steam engines (2-6-4 tank engines) were replaced by diesel multiple units with manual transmission... I recall the drivers changing up and down... I believe they were made by AEC like the busses.

I would not think the line was worth electrifying with minimal passengers and the gas works no more...

Best regards

Geoff and Sally

[SuperMike]

To some degree, I am suprised it keeps going. Down now to about one an hour, between the rush hours, it is more or less empty. No chance to dodge the conductor then.   

[Tom]

I always wanted a Velocette but, as a young apprentice, could not stretch to that kind of budget.

Geoff, I have fond memories of my Bantam. Had a couple of BSAs and a Triumph (650cc twin) after that. The latter was used exclusively on forestry roads.

I bought the Velo (used) with help from my old man. It (the Velo) was a replacement for ....

I never had a really serious fall off a motorbike... never broken a bone in my body...

On my way to work on the 350cc BSA I swerved to avoid a car that pulled out in front of me. Found myself on unpaved land, in a speed wobble, unable to control the bike, and headed for the middle of a pedestrian's back. Somehow I managed to get some control of the bike in time, but the last I recall is seeing the end of the handlebars clip the pedestrian. I blanked out when the bike hit a lampost, and I was shot off like canonball. Woke up in hospital, but the bike didn't survive.

That evening one of the City & Guilds exams was scheduled. The first people through the door of the hospital at visiting time were the Principal of the college and the Training Manager from the company. They told my other visitors to go away, handed me the exam paper, and started the clock.

This is like a trip down memory lane.

[Jammer]

The mating connector is available in the U.S. as the 12 volt battery charge cable for many small generators, including the (discontinued) Coleman Powermate, and older Honda generators.

[Lou Schneider]

albeit I still lean towards the universal lighter socket

Personally, I'd prefer what's in there now.   The lighter socket was (surprise!) never intended to be a universal power source.  It does a fine job of heating up a cigarette lighter, but not so good as a universal outlet.

For one, there's no standard size for the lighter socket.  Inserting the plug is a hit and miss affair, the cylinder has to be snug enough to hold the center pin against the end of the socket but not too small for the plastic cylinder to fit.   Then there's the problem with some sockets having dead spots around the cylinder, forcing you to wiggle and fidget the plug to make contact.

[Geoff_T]

Geoff, I have fond memories of my Bantam. Had a couple of BSAs and a Triumph (650cc twin) after that. The latter was used exclusively on forestry roads.

I bought the Velo (used) with help from my old man. It (the Velo) was a replacement for ....

On my way to work on the 350cc BSA I swerved to avoid a car that pulled out in front of me. Found myself on unpaved land, in a speed wobble, unable to control the bike, and headed for the middle of a pedestrian's back. Somehow I managed to get some control of the bike in time, but the last I recall is seeing the end of the handlebars clip the pedestrian. I blanked out when the bike hit a lampost, and I was shot off like canonball. Woke up in hospital, but the bike didn't survive.

That evening one of the City & Guilds exams was scheduled. The first people through the door of the hospital at visiting time were the Principal of the college and the Training Manager from the company. They told my other visitors to go away, handed me the exam paper, and started the clock.

This is like a trip down memory lane.

Hi

It seems we had similar early lives. The Bantam (a DKW war reparation) was basically OK but the clutch could be bothersome to adjust and the splines on the kickstart were inadequate. My D10 had an ignition and light switch on the headlight (no key required) and I'd always come back to a flat battery as some comedian would operate both switches in my absence. Fortunately you could bump start it on EMG setting.

I studied City and Guilds... got the ET5 Full Technological certificate. Worked 14+ years in a company making recording consoles then, much later, moved to the USA. In the UK I had a Commer Autosleeper and a Commer Highwayman. Now in the UK, I have the Camelot (why I keep calling it Calypso I know not) and the Fleetwood Jamboree Searcher out here in the USA.

 

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

The coincidences continue ...

We have a Camelot (by Monaco). On several occasions, including while at the Monaco factory, I've been asked "which coach do you have?", and I've drawn a blank. Sometimes I'll utter "something to do with knights of the round table" 

[Geoff_T]

The coincidences continue ...

We have a Camelot (by Monaco). On several occasions, including while at the Monaco factory, I've been asked "which coach do you have?", and I've drawn a blank. Sometimes I'll utter "something to do with knights of the round table" 

Hi Tom

Wow! I think coincidenses just stopped there..... http://www.demartinirv.com/Camelot/index.htm

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Mind you, one has to remember that is Camelot motor home is based in the UK and, being just 16 feet long and a smidgen over 6 foot wide fits nicely into supermarket parking spots... I couldn't do that with my 29' Fleetwood Jamboree! 

Plus, in that 16 feet, Autohomes squeezed in a shower and bathroom handbasin, flush toilet, instantaneous hot water, gas fired warm air heating, hob, grill and oven, fridge with freezer section, and seat belts and sleeping accomodation for four!

For anyone considering touring the UK and Europe, I highly recommend this type of motorhome. Beats the Heck out of the ones I owned in the 1980's!

Plus, at it was made by Fiat and Citreon as well as Talbot, getting spares or service in Europe should not present a problem! Also averages around 25mpg

 

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

There's a lot of utility in that small space Geoff.

... made by Fiat and Citreon as well as Talbot...

I recall the Sunbeam Talbot (or was that Talbot Sunbeam) car when I was growing up, but wasn't aware of the Euro connection. Your message caused me to run a search, and found some interesting info on the Talbot badge in this Wiki.

[Geoff_T]

Hi Tom

Yes, back in the 1950's there was a beautiful Sunbeam Talbot around and they made a gorgeous two door convertible version that's as rare as chicken's teeth but Rootes seem to then drop the Talbot name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_Alpine

It's a pity Chrysler took them over because they had developed a revolutionary opposed piston two stroke diesel engine that you can Google about (TS3 and TS4) that was small and highly efficient and Chrysler forced them to scrap the project (and the prototypes... an instruction they ignored) in favour of the Cummins diesels they were putting in their US trucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commer_TS3
http://www.commer.org.nz/Commer_Connections/TS4_Motor3.html

There were a few Talbot cars like the Horizon before Peugeot who took over the group dropped the name.

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

...there was a beautiful Sunbeam Talbot around ...

Aye, it sure was, and my Dad's best buddy (also our GP) had one. Before we had a car in the family, Doc would load both families into that car for a trip to one of the beautiful beaches on the Gower peninsula.

[M1894]

I bought a Sunbeam Talbot convertable from another airman back in the late 50's in Spokane Washington. He cracked the block, and couldn't find another engine for it, and everyone told him that a weld wouldn't hold. I got it real cheap, and welded the block and drove it up until the early 70's. [I'm a welder, and he beleived some of the local shops and didn't trust the idea of a welded block.] It was a fun car, and with the right hand drive was a novelty. Seats were real leather, and the only major problem was that the wife had to sew a new top for me, which meant that I had to buy her an industrial sewing machine.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Continuing my point about the Rootes TS3 and 4 high efficiency two stroke diesel engines, I have often wondered why two stroke diesels were not further explored. If you look up the subject you will find all these ocean going tankers use two stroke engines because of their efficiency and simplicity of construction. They use separate lubrication so it's not like a small two stroke motorcycle that you mixed petrol and oil.

Given the proven efficiency and low overall height of the TS4, one wonders why the idea was not investigated further... if not by Chrysler then by a diesel engine manufacturer. The absence of timing and valve gear must also keep weight and costs down.

http://www.commer.org.nz/Commer_Connections/TS4Report.html

Seems like others were thinking along my lines of thought.....

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/05/fev_developing_.html


 

Geoff and Sally

[Tom]

I have often wondered why two stroke diesels were not further explored.

I believe the old Detroit diesels were 2-cycle.

[Geoff_T]

Hi Tom

Just Goggled it... thanks

Always learning!

 

Geoff and Sally

[Geoff_T]

Hi

My comments re two stroke anything were based on personal experience. At the very dawn of my motocycling days I owned most of the models of BSA Bantam... most had a semi-circular speedometer that went up to 55mph and you would not reach that on the 125cc unless down a vertical descent. Even the 175 with the 80mph speedo had trouble reaching 60mph. I believe the 125 motor struggled to reach 4bhp.
Years later I bought a Suzuki F50 as a runabout. It had a reed valve engine with the carb next to the reed valve and pushed out a commendable 4.5bhp (90bhp/litre). The performance was also surprisingly sprite for a 50cc.
Years later still I bought an MZ ETZ250 that produced 21bhp and enormous torque... I could give a Honda 250 4 stroke a demo of faster acceleration. That ended my motorcycle era but showed how the technology had advanced.
Then, as I had owned Commer motorhomes I was interested in the fate of Commer/Dodge/Talbot and discovered the opposed piston TS3/4 engines that I recall, years earlier, trucks and fire engines fitted with the TS3 and their distinctive exhaust bark. I still feel that two stroke technology is a way forward, especially with fewer components and one firing stroke per revolution per cylinder.

 

Geoff and Sally

[Lou Schneider]

Firing once per revolution, two stroke engines have twice as many power strokes as an equivalent 4 stroke engine, thus they have effectively double the usable displacement in the same package and should produce twice as much horsepower and torque per CC.

The classic 2 stroke problems have been emissions and long life.  If the engine is a pressurized crankcase design where the bottom side of the piston pressurizes the next charge in the crankcase, you have to mix oil with the fuel because it's doing double duty as both fuel and lubricating oil - and doing neither very well.  The lubricating qualities are diluted by the fuel, while the oil burning in the cylinder greatly increases the engine's emissions.

You can get around the fuel and oil mixture problems by using an external charger to pressurize the charge instead of sending the fuel-air mixture into the crankcase, but this still leaves the problem of fuel blowing straight through the cylinder and out the exhaust port as the engine tries to charge and exhaust the cylinder at the same time.

Unburned fuel in the exhaust contributes nothing to the engine's output, lowering it's efficiency (mpg) while also increasing the unburned hydrocarbons (smog) in the exhaust.

By contrast, 4 cycle engines have their input and exhaust cycles separated by the power stroke where the raw fuel is consumed.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Both the Suzuki and the MZ used a separate oil tank and no oil/petrol mixture like the earlier Bantams. The TS3/4 opposed piston didn't use the crank case as part of the combustion path... here's a link to the operation... http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Rootes-ListerTS3/TS3.htm

My father used to work for De Havilland engines at Leavesden, it was also close to my school... we certainly could hear the Fairey Rotodyne when it landed there and, at the same time, Dr Joe Erhlich (sp?) had a 125cc two stroke motorcycle tearing up and down the main runway as he experimented with producing more bhp from the two stroke engine. I believe he used reed valves like the Suzuki.

Memories...

Geoff and Sally

[Lou Schneider]

Right - using an external blower eliminates the fuel contamination of the oil and vice-versa. But you still have the emissions problem of unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust caused by raw fuel blown out the exhaust port while the intake and exhaust ports are open simultaneously - see figure 5 in your link to see this.

When you need less than a few parts per million of unburned HC in the exhaust, it doesn't take much cross contamination to exceed this.  California's current HC limits are 250 PPM at idle, 200 PPM at speed.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

I just hope sufficient brain cells are applied to the issue... I believe the rewards would justify it.  Four stroke engines now have things like variable valve timing and other enhancements unheard of years before. When SAAB used to race their three cylinder two stroke cars (yes, the were poluters) they won races because they were unburstable and the cars were driven with the accelerator permananently on the floor.

There has to be a future there for the simpler engine, adapted to meet current specs.

Geoff and Sally

[Lou Schneider]

I could see something like a fuel injected 2 stroke eliminating the blow-by problem.  Blow the cylinder clear with fresh air then inject fuel after the ports close and the piston is compressing the mixture.  Or even at the top of the compression stroke, like a diesel.