Steep Driving

Jozee, when you get that bad smell from your black tank while traveling, either the P-traps do not have water in them, or you have a draft pulling the smell out of the toilet.  If the P-traps do have water, also make sure there is some water in the toilet as well, enough to cover the exit. 

If you travel with a window open, or a roof vent open, it may pull the odor from the tank.  This could indicate a bad toilet seal, tank that is in need of draining, blockage of the tank vent. 

Some tank vents were inserted to far in the tank, and the tank liquid covers the vent bottom before the tank is full.  This blocks the venting of fumes up the vent, but they have to go somewhere.

Often if the bath is used a lot and the coach stays in the same location for a long period, some solids will build up in the tank.  Depends on the chemical you use, flushing, and other factors.  To eliminate this buildup, drain the tank, then put in about 5-10 gallons of water, pour a bag of ice down the toilet (try to brake it up in the bag first as much as you can) then drive around making several turns for about 30-minutes.  Then go drain the tank.

Jozee

If you decide to go I-10 to Desert Center Hwy 177 is a good road equal to Hwy 95.  We have done it with the motorhome with no problems.  Both highways are in the middle of nowhere so be sure you have enough fuel.  If you go I-8 you can go north on S34 in CA just past the sand dunes.  We have gone that way with our 38' motorhome to Hwy 78 into Blythe where you can go north on CA 95 or go over to to AZ 95 and go north out of Quartzsite.  I would do I-8 over I-10 only because of the traffic on 15 & 215 but either way is up to you and how comfortable you feel in traffic.  The drive from Parker to Lake Havasu on 95 is beautiful if you are out driving.  Buckskin Mt State Park is a nice place to stay if you are ever in that area again so check it out.  Enjoy your trip.

Ron said:

Also a jake brake is not the same as an exhaust brake.  A jake brake the valve timing is altered to turn the engine into a compressor to give braking an exhaust brake has a flapper valve in the exhaust to restrict exhaust flow.  Not all diesels come equipped with some type of engine braking.

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Ron (and Carl)

Just to further clarify terminology, Jake Brake is a trademark of Jacobs Engineering. It originally applied only to the Jacobs engine compression brake, but Jacobs started using it on it's exhaust brake model as well. The engine compression brake currently supplied with the Cummins ISL and above engines is a Cummins engine compression brake, not a "Jake Brake", tho they work similar. Kleenex and Xerox have the same problem with their names.

Jozee,

And there was a trailer park at the end of my trip, so somebody has hauled some park models and mobile homes up there

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That park probably came into existence by people who, like you, had a horrific white-knuckler, and just decided they had had enough of that type of retirement excitment! ;D ;D ;D

Let me try to clear up any misunderstandings about braking procedures and why you would use one over another.

Steady, light application of the brakes is fine for general stopping on relatively flat surfaces where you have plenty of room to slow down gradually. Even in stop-and-go traffic, this technique will hardly ever heat your brakes beyond 300-400 degrees F. - perfectly safe and no smell, no fade, but with one caveat; fluid boiling, which I'll explain later.

Heavier, even hard application is sometimes required when descending steep grades. This should be done for a few seconds at a time; enough to bring down or keep the vehicle at a reasonable speed, perhaps enough to slow it down to enable shifting to a lower gear. This would apply to either gas, or diesel rigs with engine or exhaust brakes. Sufficient time, several seconds, are needed between applications to allow the brakes to cool. Even so, they MAY heat up to 400 to 500 degrees F, or even higher. Now we're getting into a potential danger area. Here are some boiling points for popular brake fluids:

Fluid                           DRY         WET
Castrol LMA DOT  3/4   446  311
Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3  550       290
ATE Super Blue Racing 536       392
ATE TYP 200           536         392
Motul Racing 600   585         421
Castrol SRF               590     518
Performance Friction   550         284

As you can see, these fluids will boil between 446 and 590 degrees F. When that happens, you get bubbles in the lines and calipers/cylinders, and that results in a soft brake pedal, or brake fade. This is where quick pumping of the brakes (stabbing them) can help build up additional pressure in the lines and somewhat overcome the presence of the bubbles; restoring braking performance to some degree.

Note also that there is a WET boiling point. Here's what that means: Brake fluids are hydorphilic; that is they absorb water. When they do, the boiling point is reduced drastically. That is why you are told to always use a new, unopened can or bottle of brake fluid when replenishing the fluid level. Additionally, some brake reservoirs are NOT sealed from the outside air, and can absorb water from it. If you have one of these, it's advisable to drain, refill, and bleed your brakes periodically. I can't give you a recommended interval for doing this but, personally, I would have it done about every two years; certainly whenever you have any brake work done - like replacing the linings/pads, cylinder or caliper repair/replacement, etc.

The third, and worst, brake use (actually abuse) is when you apply constant moderate to heavy pressure over a long period, without allowing the brakes to cool. This leads to a second type of brake fade - laminar gas. Your brake linings/pads can heat to very high temperatures, 900 degrees or more, temperatures beyond their formulation limits, and can outgas; create a layer of gas between the friction material and the rotors or drums. Think of an "air hockey" game table, and how easily the puck slides across the surface. Well, that's exactly what happens to your brakes. They become USELESS! Add to that the fact that your brake fluid is probably boiling too, and you can see how dangerous that can be. 

Summary:

Steady light to moderate braking is o.k. for normal, flat driving.

Brief periods of firm to heavy braking to get/maintain a desired speed on grades. Requires 'letting off' frequently for brake cooling.

Use so-called 'pumping' to try building up a 'soft' pedal.

Long, steady, moderate to heavy braking without 'letting off' - only if you have your insurance paid up and have a current Last Will and Testament. 

Forgot one very important point: If you get your brakes too hot, the rotors can warp, and will need replacement. Merely having them resurfaced ('turned') is not a good option as they will also have lost some of their temper.

Hi Jozee

I just drove Interstate 8 from San Diego to Tucson.  I live in San Diego and also have an Allegro,a 35' Allegro Bus.  However, ours is a diesel pusher.  Before we had the motorhome, I drove a Chevy dually 1 Ton truck with a slide in camper shell on it and pulled a 3 horse trailer.  I did lots of steep grades both up and down with that thing.  We still have the truck; but our kids have the camper.

With the gas engines, you really need to use your gears and don't let the unit get going too fast down hill.  It's much harder to stop or slow it down after it begins to go fast.  You will be fine going down #8, just use your gears and gear it down often to a much slower speed than you think necessary.

On your way home, coming up the grade on #8, also use your gears.  Do you know what engine you have in there?  A 454 Chevy or a 460 Ford?  Or something else?  If it's a 454 or 460, you'll be fine, just go slow and keep an eye on your temp guage.  The 454 tends to run on the hotter side than the Ford 460.  If it's a 454, you'll hear a loud fan go on when the temp reachs a certain level, this will cool the engine off and you can actually see the temp go down.

Have fun in Colorado!

Marsha~

Do you think that I should take the 8 east to the AZ 95 out of Yuma, and cut north to Parker?

Or, do you think that to avoid the climb on the 8, I should take 15 (215) north to the 10 east through congested Riverside and Palm Springs?? This is the route given by the resort.? They suggest that I get off the 10 east freeway and cut north on 177 at Desert Center, that turns into 62 where my campground is.? I don't know 177.? Looks like I could stay on the 10 and cut north on California 95 out of Blythe (and then take 62), which looks like a bigger road.

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Weeell, I have not taken I-8 with a trailer in tow so I went to the Mountain Directory for the straight scoop.? ?What the Directory says is that I-8 has a whole bag full of 6% grades getting over the Peninsular Ranges.? ?To be exact you have four stretches getting out of San Diego: Laguna Summit, Crestwood Summit, Tecate Summit, and finally Mountain Springs Pass.? ?The details go on for an entire page and lists such wonders as 13 miles of 6% downgrade leaving Laguna Summit --? and that is just the start of your adventure.

Worse yet the whole entry starts off with this voice of doom:? Crosswinds can be very strong along this entire stretch of highway--especially on the east side of Mountain Springs Pass.?
Now given the storms we have been getting for the past couple of weeks (I am a Los Angeleno), I would say that I-215 to I-10 is beginning to sound like the way to go.? No?? ?? A second glance at the Mountain Directory reveals that there are no warnings whatsoever about I-215 and I-10 along the whole route thus confirming the choice.? ?You are going to hit crosswinds in Banning Pass no doubt but the highway is well buffered by trees and if you slow down the winds should give you few white-knuckle moments.

Other folks have made the same recommendations here, but I thought I would take you thru an excercise with the Mountain Directory.? ? ? There are a lot of long, long 6% grades out here in the west and you are going to have to do more than a few of them -- but why do one if there is a good alternate available?? 8)

On I-10 coming out of the Cochella Valley after Indio there is a long upgrade but you should have no problem with that one using the lower gears but once at the top there aren't any steep downgrades.  It certainly wouldn't be like anything you just finished doing.

I have to laugh.  Ask any San Diegan which is the best route between San Diego and "The River"......... "The northern route or the southern route?" and you will get a heated discussion between dear friends in responce.  I have read these posts and looked at others on the forum as well, and it seems that we are no different here.

I have decided to do both.  I will go up through the 215 route to 10 east (thanks Carl, I like the idea of taking this easier route on the way in, even though it may be more congested) and pick up 177 (thanks Lorna!  Good to hear from someone who has traveled the road) to the 62 and my destination of Emerald Cove RV Resort. 

If  there are no wind advisories for interstate 8, I will return via AZ 95 South, stopping at Quartzite, and cutting back down to Yuma and then cross over the mountains via the 8 west.  I will make sure to check road conditions and wind advisories before I leave both ways.

I found a FABULOUS website regarding roads today at work (couldn't remember the URL for Carl's Mountain Roads, and hadn't seen your responces yet) and thought that I would share it with you.  You may already know it.  Two folks (apparently with lots of time on their hands) have taken pictures of thousands of Interstate in in state roads all over the US and posted them with descriptions, pictures of direction and warning signs, and conditions, on the following website.

www.aaroads.com

all the information is free

Here is an example of what I got when I researched California 177 (before I saw Lorna's post).  The pictures can be enlarged by clicking on them.  I found this very helpful.

http://www.westcoastroads.com/california/ca-177.html

I wonder if I should ask Tom to put this in the Library?  Maybe it is already there.

Jozee

By the way, Karl, I loved your braking explanation and the boiling points for different brake fluids.  Very easy to understand.  I will actually cut and paste this to my RV log that I have created for myself.  I will use the brake fluid information to select fluid for my SUV as well as my RV.  Thank you.

jozee said:

I wonder if I should ask Tom to put this in the Library?

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Thanks for the links Jozee. I can't copy the content of that site in our library, but maybe I could find a place to put the link to it.

I found a FABULOUS website regarding roads today at work (couldn't remember the URL for Carl's Mountain Roads, and hadn't seen your responces yet) ...

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Well you don't have to remember.? ?Us sneaky RVForum types give you live links to the sites we cite (poet and didnt know it).? ? ?All you have to do when you see an under lined url like www.mountaindirectory.com is to click on it and you are there.? Give it a try.?? 8)

Great post, Karl. You are a bottomless pit of good info. Thanks . . .

>> Brief periods of firm to heavy braking to get/maintain a desired speed on grades. Requires 'letting off' frequently for brake cooling.
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This seems to be part of what I do when coming down a steep one. If I decide, or it is posted as such to not descend over, say, 40mph I will set up a 10 mph window of 5 over and 5 under. If I the set my speed at 35 and find that I have reached 45 in less than 10 seconds, I am in the wrong gear and go down one and try again. If in the correct gear for that grade, I should be able to maintain the proper speed by only occasional "blipping" of he brake pedal as I approach the upper end of the window I have set to bring me back down to the lower end of the window. I should "never" have to use anything close to a  steady pressure coming down such a grade.

An example of this is on the Grapevine on the 5 south of Bakersfield. It's a steep puppy with a 35mph slow lane for truckers and wise RVers. I will set 40 as my upper end and find that 2nd gear in my last rig, the Tioga, worked well and I feel very comfortable in the descent. Same with Parley out of SL and of course, my many trips to Reno and Lake Tahoe on the 80 over Donner and over Myers on the 50. Just past Donner going East "must" be a 7 percenter. And another I do when I visit Pismo each year is Cuesta Grade on the 101 by San Luis Obispo. That one, like Donner and Meyers has this unreal view as you pass over the summit.

Jozee,

Here is a list of driving tips I have compiled.

JerryF

                      RV DRIVING TIPS

Stay in the center of your lane.  One idea is to put two 1/4 inch wide strips of white tape about six inches apart on the defroster vent at the bottom of the windshield so you can quickly glance down to see them without moving your vision very far from the road ahead.  Place the tape so your MH is in the center of the lane when the painted center line in the road is between the two strips of white tape.  You may not use them all the time but when you need a quick check of your position in the lane as in heavy traffic or especially in a narrow construction zone the tape marks will tell you if you're centered in your lane faster than checking your mirrors.  Another idea is to imagine your right foot on the dark streak (oil deposits) in the middle of most lanes where the tires don't run.

On the highway look 15-20 seconds ahead (15 seconds is a quarter of a mile at 60 MPH).  Stay 4 seconds behind the vehicle in front of you.  The California Class C drivers handbook says to add 1 second more if you are driving over 40 MPH so maybe 5 seconds behind the vehicle in front of you is better.  To determine this watch the vehicle in front of you pass a post or sign and count the number of seconds until you reach the same post or sign.

In city traffic look ahead one block.

If a vehicle is stopped alongside the road move over a lane to give them room.

Cover the brake if a traffic light is "stale."  Stale means that you do NOT know how long it has been green.

Cover the brake if you feel something is wrong.  Covering is placing your foot on top of the brake pedal.

Plan ahead, notice roadside signs, changing traffic patterns, traffic slowing, lane merges or splits, turning lanes and so forth.

When there are 2 left turn lanes, use the right-most lane for your left turn.

When there are 2 right turn lanes, use the left-most lane for your right turn,

Left Turn when there are two lanes on your side of the highways center lane:  Drive until the front wheels are even with the center line, turn it full & fast, and go slow.  If there is only one lane on the highway you are turning onto, drive until the front wheels are even with the curb (or an approximate curb if none exists) and than turn it full and fast. 

Right Turn when there are two lanes on your side of the highways center lane:  Drive until the front wheels are even with the curb or left side of a parked car, turn it full & fast, go slow.  If there is only one lane on the highway you are turning onto, drive until the front wheels are even with the curb (or an approximate curb if none exists) and than turn it full and fast.

Mirrors:  Scan your mirrors (both flat and convex).  Look for shadows.  For perspective, adjust mirror so about 1-inch of your coach shows in the mirror. 

As you pass another vehicle, when you can see the passed vehicle's tires on the road surface in your flat mirror you can safely move back into your lane even if you're towing a car.  Also, you can leave your back up camera on to help judging when to pull back into your lane.

As you approach freeway ramps look (glance) 3 times.  (1) Check the exit lane as you approach.  (2) Look at the top of the overpass.  (3) Check the incoming merge lane as soon as you can for entering vehicles.

Backing & Turning: Drive close to the edge of the road or curb.  Then back until the rear wheel is where you want to start the turn, turn it full & fast, and go slow.  If you're not making it, stop, turn the wheel in the other direction and pull forward as in a Y turn.  Then turn the wheel back the other way and continue backing.  You may want to tip your flat mirror or mirrors down so you can see better.

Backing straight:  Choose a high easy-to-see object in your flat mirror (left mirror is best for this) and keep it in the same location in the mirror as you back up.  This will keep you going strait.

Campground maneuvering:  Watch for tail swing, overhead branches, and look down low for short tree stumps, large rocks and electrical/water hookups.  You may want to tip your flat mirror down so you can see better.

Streaks of rust coming from the lug nuts may be a sign of loose lug nuts.

Jozee,

With regard to when it is necessary to PUMP your brakes on a down hill run here is an easy rule to follow.  Try to stay 3 seconds OFF the brakes for every 1 second you are ON the brakes.  This will help to "keep 'em cool."

Also, if you have a PAC exhaust brake or JAKE engine brake (usually only available on diesel engines) use it first and foremost all the way down the hill and only use your service brakes when necessary to augment the PAC or JAKE braking ability. 

JerryF

JerArdra said:

Jozee,
                      RV DRIVING TIPS

Stay in the center of your lane.  One idea is to put two 1/4 inch wide strips of white tape about six inches apart on

On the highway look 15-20 seconds ahead (15 seconds is a quarter of a mile at 60 MPH).  Stay 4 seconds behind the vehicle in front of you.  The California Class C drivers handbook says to add 1 second more if you are driving over 40 MPH so maybe 5 seconds behind the vehicle in front of you is better.  To determine this watch the vehicle in front of you pass a post or sign and count the number of seconds until you reach the same post or sign.


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As you pass another vehicle, when you can see the passed vehicle's tires on the road surface in your flat mirror you can safely move back into your lane even if you're towing a car.  Also, you can leave your back up camera on to help judging when to pull back into your lane.

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Re: strips of tape... I used an ARRL Membership diamond.  When the top of the diamond points to the center of the white line... I'm centered, if the diamond obscures any part of the line I'm close enough

Re: Rear View Monitor:  What I can't figure out is why they tied it to REVERSE,  makes more sense to me to tie to to a position sensor if it's a fold down type (Up on, Down off)

John In Detroit said:

Re: Rear View Monitor:  What I can't figure out is why they tied it to REVERSE,  makes more sense to me to tie to to a position sensor if it's a fold down type (Up on, Down off)

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John

Usually you can set the monitor to be on when you are in reverse only or to always be on. I leave mine always on so I can monitor that blind spot to my right rear.

I have to turn it on every time I start the MH, I"d rather it default to on unless closed

Usually if I turn it on manually moving it into and out of park will not kill it, However if I back up.. that will