Trailer power generation

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vassock

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Let's say I have a power generator like this:

http://us.bumblebuy.net/auction_details.php?auction_id=133973&googleps=1

and connect 2 propane containers to it. Then what? How does the power generator work? Let's say I want to run a regular PC and small LCD monitor. Does the generator work through a battery? Does it only start when it senses that the battery is depleted or nearly depleted? Does it always run when on? Can it control the amount of propane used to generate power? A PC and an LCD monitor will barely use a tenth of 7kW, so it would be a shame for it to run at full power just to generate that.

Anyone have any experience with this?
 
What you are looking at is called a whole house generator.  Or a standby generator.  It is intended to be used as an emergency backup power source.  To use it you need a gas line to feed it, a automatic transfer switch that will automatically start the generator when it senses a loss of power from the grid.

So, my first question is, How are you going to move this thing around?
Next question, how big of a propane tank are you going to power this monster from?
Last, why do you need 10KW when a typical recreational trailer can only use either 3600 or 6000 watts?
 
donn said:
What you are looking at is called a whole house generator.  Or a standby generator.  It is intended to be used as an emergency backup power source.  To use it you need a gas line to feed it, a automatic transfer switch that will automatically start the generator when it senses a loss of power from the grid.
Click to expand...
Right, I looked into some 50 AMP transfer switches since they seem to be almost never included with the generator. Not too expensive. This is the kind of info I was looking for, but could you expand a bit on that? I just can't visualize it. How does it go? I plug my PC into a power strip, which is connected to an uninterrupted power supply, which is connected to a trailers internal battery, which is connected to the transfer switch, which is connected to the generator? Would that work how I want it to work?
So, my first question is, How are you going to move this thing around?
Click to expand...
SUV. It's only 350 lbs so with a lot of struggling I should be able to lift it a few inches off of the ground on a good day.
Next question, how big of a propane tank are you going to power this monster from?
Click to expand...
I'll buy whatever you recommend.
Last, why do you need 10KW when a typical recreational trailer can only use either 3600 or 6000 watts?
Click to expand...

Smaller generators come in the gas/diesel variety. These are not designed to be run continuously and are unreliable. What I need is something that can run for a few hours at a time at up to 25% load. Sturdy propane generators just don't seem to come in any smaller kW ratings. I want something reliable, efficient and long-lasting.
 
Have you already purchased this generator?  This would be something that you would use at a remote cabin.  Are you looking for something to use while you are camping?  This would be a huge overkill for to power what you suggested.
If you are only wishing to power your PC and monitor while camping, all you need is a 600 watt inverter and a couple of good deep cycle batteries.  If you want to use them for a few days camping, buy a small inverter generator that uses gasoline. Or you could spend a little more money and get a larger inverter gen set and run every thing in the trailer.
Fuel consumption estimates should be listed in the products description. 
Arizina Al
 
arizona al said:
If you are only wishing to power your PC and monitor while camping, all you need is a 600 watt inverter and a couple of good deep cycle batteries.  If you want to use them for a few days camping, buy a small inverter generator that uses gasoline. Or you could spend a little more money and get a larger inverter gen set and run every thing in the trailer.
Arizina Al
Click to expand...

I will be full-timing, so I need something to keep other appliances running 24/7, like the refrigerator. I also will want to sometimes use the stove and A/C. And like I said, I read that gasoline generators are highly unreliable and do not last long. Terribly inefficient, too. If you could, link to some of the items you mentioned, like the deep cycle batteries. I'm afraid I don't know exactly what you're talking about. Don't trailers come with built-in batteries?
 
I think that this unit is built to be placed on a concrete pad beside a house and be hooked up to a very large propane tank
(250) gallon size if you are going to run it 24/7.  I would not expect that this unit would have a long life used in that manor
as it is powered by a Brigs and Statton Vangard engine (think lawn mower) running at 3,600 rpm.  You will not find a reliable 24/7 type of gen set that will cost $2,500 new.  Plus they would cost a fortune to keep in fuel.  If you want to live full time off the grid, look into Solar.
Good luck on your quest, 
Arizona Al 
 
arizona al said:
I think that this unit is built to be placed on a concrete pad beside a house and be hooked up to a very large propane tank
(250) gallon size if you are going to run it 24/7.  I would not expect that this unit would have a long life used in that manor
as it is powered by a Brigs and Statton Vangard engine (think lawn mower) running at 3,600 rpm.  You will not find a reliable 24/7 type of gen set that will cost $2,500 new.  Plus they would cost a fortune to keep in fuel.  If you want to live full time off the grid, look into Solar.
Good luck on your quest, 
Arizona Al
Click to expand...

What kind of propane generator would you recommend then? And do you have any examples of solar power set ups you would recommend?

Would this generator be more reliable?
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-5837-Standby-Generator/p5524.html
 
It may help answer your question if you described all you want to power with your generator.  Are you trying to power the trailer's air conditioner, lights, furnace, refrigerator, etc, etc. if you are only interested in running a laptop and a LCD monitor, a 200 watt gasoline generator would do the trick.
 
At 50% load that unit will use over a gallon of propane an hour so it would cost you about $3.00/ Hour for fuel. For solar, you will have to figure out how many Watts per hour your useage wil be and base your system on that.
Arizona Al
 
Lowell said:
It may help answer your question if you described all you want to power with your generator.  Are you trying to power the trailer's air conditioner, lights, furnace, refrigerator, etc, etc. if you are only interested in running a laptop and a LCD monitor, a 200 watt gasoline generator would do the trick.
Click to expand...

It depends on season. Normal or cold weather, just lights, PC and LCD. Sometimes HDTV instead of LCD. In extremely hot weather, A/C. Occasional use of microwave/stove.

Like I said, gasoline is way too inefficient and expensive.
 
arizona al said:
At 50% load that unit will use over a gallon of propane an hour so it would cost you about $3.00/ Hour for fuel. For solar, you will have to figure out how many Watts per hour your useage wil be and base your system on that.
Arizona Al
Click to expand...

But this is a trailer we're talking about. Where would I lay out the solar panels?

To maximize generator efficiency, I could use it just to charge a battery, like this:

http://www.ecodirect.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Surrette-8-CS-25PS&site=google_base

Then turn it off and work off of the battery.
 
Lights?  Refer?
The refer can be run on propane and consumes only a fraction of what a propane generator will require on the same 24 hour period.  Lights?  They run on 12VDC.
During extended camping without hookups there is no need to run a generator 24/7.  It might be required to be run for 3-5 hours every couple of days to recharge the batteries.  Unless you are thinking of running the AC 24/7.
Portable generator unreliability?  Foolish.  Modern portable gas generators from makers like Honda or Yamaha are extremely reliable and durable.  Heck, my 35 year old Honda lawn mower finally died this summer.  And it worked hours each week with no complaints.  Please come back and explain exactly why you need/want such a monster generator for a camping trailer.  Maybe then you will get some more better suggestions.
 
I plug my PC into a power strip, which is connected to an uninterrupted power supply, which is connected to a trailers internal battery, which is connected to the transfer switch, which is connected to the generator? Would that work how I want it to work?
Click to expand...

You have some misconceptions about the power in a trailer. Your PC is not powered from the trailer battery unless you have an inverter installed, something not typical of trailers but easily added if you need one. An RV fridge can run on propane on its own, so no need for a generator to power it. And the trailer lights are direct 12v powered from battery, so no need there either. But your PC and anything else that plugs into a 120v wall outlet needs external power from some source.

An inverter can power most things by making 120vac from battery 12vdc, but you need plenty of battery capacity for it to last very long. Then you need some way to recharge batteries, but that is not a high power demand.  A 1000 watt generator will pretty much recharge a large battery bank in about 3-4 hours, and faster if you don't let it run way down before charging.  You don't need any fancy switches to do battery charging - just a meter to monitor battery state. However, you can get an automatic battery monitor that will auto start a generator if you feel you need one. That means the generator has to be electric start, though.
 
While on the topic, what electrical source(s) charge the RV's battery?  I know the truck (7-pin) does.  What about shore power?

Thanks,
Phil
 
Shore power does recharge trailer batteries.  It is routed thru a installed converter/charger unit installed on the trailer.
 
Carl L said:
Shore power does recharge trailer batteries.  It is routed thru a installed converter/charger unit installed on the trailer.
Click to expand...

Thus shore power will recharge the trailer batteries if the converter/charger is functioning.
 
Lowell said:
Thus shore power will recharge the trailer batteries if the converter/charger is functioning.
Click to expand...

Should work out that way.  I will say we have more than a few threads dealing with those occasions when it does not.
 
Gary RV Roamer said:
You have some misconceptions about the power in a trailer. Your PC is not powered from the trailer battery unless you have an inverter installed, something not typical of trailers but easily added if you need one. An RV fridge can run on propane on its own, so no need for a generator to power it. And the trailer lights are direct 12v powered from battery, so no need there either. But your PC and anything else that plugs into a 120v wall outlet needs external power from some source.

An inverter can power most things by making 120vac from battery 12vdc, but you need plenty of battery capacity for it to last very long. Then you need some way to recharge batteries, but that is not a high power demand.  A 1000 watt generator will pretty much recharge a large battery bank in about 3-4 hours, and faster if you don't let it run way down before charging.  You don't need any fancy switches to do battery charging - just a meter to monitor battery state. However, you can get an automatic battery monitor that will auto start a generator if you feel you need one. That means the generator has to be electric start, though.
Click to expand...

What about the built-in AC? Will that run on propane as well? If so, that is great. That leaves only the lighting, PC and monitor/TV (plus other insignificant items like cellphones).

I read somewhere that gas-powered generators are relatively inefficient and unreliable compared to propane generators. This is why I want the least powerful propane generator I can find, the Generac with a 7kW rating. It only weighs 250 lbs so it's manageable. Thanks for the info regarding everything else. I find it very useful.

Since I would be full-timing with a TV and a powerful computer running for a few hours per day, I thought I'd need to replace the used battery of a used trailer or even upgrade a new trailer's battery with a more powerful one. Something like this would do I think:

http://store.thesolarbiz.com/online/Items.aspx?key=search%26code=__ALLCATS__%26searchval=SUR-30011

Let me know if that is not compatible.

Other than that, I'd like to know what the expected energy costs would be and also a more detailed explanation of what connects to what as far as batteries/UPS/switches/generators are concerned.
 
4 - 6 volt 190 amp hour golf cart batteries at about $100 each will give you 380 amp hours or about 23 ah more than the $900 battery you are looking at. I think you will find that most things designed for RV's will work better for you than trying to re-design a totally new electric system. Engineers have spent years trying to get optimum performance out of things like total power systems for RV's. As has been previously mentioned , you could add a couple of batteries, an inverter, and a 3000-3500 watt Honda generator which would not only have plenty of power to recharge your batteries, but run your AC as well. Plus you could do all this far less expensive than what you are planning. There is nothing wrong with the newer gas generators in either the efficiency or longevity depatments, and I believe whoever said that just has a biased towards propane.
 
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