Road rules

I try to at least keep up or stay out of the way.  The speed limit on this road is 75 or 80, well sorry I can't do that in this motorhome.  It's 65 if I can safely, 60 if there is little traffic like yesterday.  On this section through and north of Tucson says 75 and I can do 70 easily and safely, as its an excellent roadway.  But there are problems no matter what speed, as there are many poor drivers. I think I'm ok, but not going to say I'm great at driving.  I do try to stay aware of my surroundings and try to drive defensively as I can., if I

Today a beautiful Prevost came out of nowhere, likely doing 80 or more, he was flying.  He was so close to the white line passing everyone I got over some, couldn't go far that I thought I would be minus a mirror, if I was lucky.  I'm thinking it was possibly a tour bus, but I don't know.  He was out of sight pretty quick passing everything and everybody, really scarey, something that big was flying like that.

I only had one white knuckle moment the last few days and it was today.  A truck passed me and I think a big gust of wind hit at the same time and it gave me some work to hang on and keep it straight.  Only time I've had that.  I looked later and saw my air was down some in my airbags, pumped them up and no more of that.  Also I've had a few trucks pass and they get way to far over almost in your lane, some pull back in way to quick.  but that's just part of it out there, just gotta be careful.  I to get off if I can if to many cars get behind me, but I can't always do so.

Would it be unfair/unjust to just say that all slower traffic, regardless of posted speed limit,  keep right on roads of two or more lanes in one direction?

Loaded question, I know.  But I feel a necessary question.  I have heard replies such as "I pay highway and gasoline tax in this state.  I can drive in any lane I want."

Is that idea for real?  Is common courtesy out the window?

I just wondered spending most of my working hours on Interstate highways.  I have always gotten along well with the RV'ers I have encountered on the road while in my big rig.  Are the tables turning?

      A little off topic, but I was in our car along I84 heading east into Hartford CT, I was cruising along in the left lane at about 5 to 10 MPH above the posted limit of 55 MPH when a souped up local youngster pulled up behind me and sat on my bumper for a few hundred yards until I hit an empty space in the middle lane.  I pulled over, he went by me, then I pulled out again.
    The State Trouper who witnessed this, pulled me over, gave me the speeding ticket, and answered my query as to why it was me getting the ticket, as opposed to the kid who passed me by saying it is up to his discretion who he fines.  I was driving above the speed limit, so I had no grounds to fight the fine, but it sure has taken away any desire to pull over, in fact if someone starts tailgating, I usually slow down.

Ed

Hfx_Cdn said:

    , in fact if someone starts tailgating, I usually slow down.

Ed

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Been there done  that, don't do it any more. 

bucks2 said:

...but I'm pretty sure there's not a judge in the land that would uphold a ticket for not exceeding the speed limit...

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You're assuming the judge has more common sense than the officer that gave you the ticket and the drivers around you.

bucks2 said:

Note the section that says "a slow moving vehicle".

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"Slow moving vehicle is defined here in NY but provides for a pretty lenient variance - I want to say it's less than 40 MPH in a 55 MPH or 65 MPH zone. Not sure there is a definition in the lesser speed zones other than farm vehicles or the Amish.

denmarc said:

I have heard replies such as "I pay highway and gasoline tax in this state.  I can drive in any lane I want."...Is common courtesy out the window?

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If my ride to work each day is any indication...YES!

I am also a biker and RV owner.  I am a dual sport rider and do very little highway riding.  What really bothers me is when a larger vehicle tailgates me on my motorcycle.  It is so dangerous, it I make a small slip or need to stop, I would be right in their grill, hood and/or windshield.  Please give us bikers a little space. 

I travel a lot with my RV on two lane roads.  I am glad to pull over and let other drivers by, but it may be 10 or 20 miles until an opportunity to pull over comes along.  On some of the roads I travel, the white lines for the outside lane markers are painted in the grass.  I have pulled over in a small town to let drivers by.  After pulling out, before I get to the edge of town, there is 5 more cars behind me and no place to pull over. 

We RV-ed in Southern Colorado a couple of years ago.  Most of the roads we traveled on were two lane, but they had passing lanes about every 10 to 15 miles.  That was really great.  It made RV traveling much easier.  If all states would do that with their two lane roads it would be a lot easier for everyone.

Bikes can usually accelerate very quickly.  So passing is a lot easier than most vehicles.  I have never had opportunity to pull over for bikers.  I have never been in a large group of bikers, but usually they pass me before I can find a place to pull over.

My 2 cents: Respect the other drivers, even when they do not respect you. 

A past job I had was to teach defensive driving and safety on the road. I have seen too many things to relate here.  I wish they had all been nightmares.  Sadly, they were not.

RVing is similar to driving a truck or bus.  Something that has HUGE blind spots, does not stop quickly, and typically can't get out of its own way.

Motorcycling is the opposite.  Very little blind spot, as the only limits are your vision, the ability to turn your head, and the helmet.  The key thing is: You are small.  Which means you fit in the blind spot of bigger vehicles quite well.

rats1955 is correct: Give the bikes space, lots of it.  Expect there to be something in your blind spot, all the time, every time. Keep your eyes scanning and your ears open.  Remove any distractions such as cell phones (even bluetooth) as a split second of distraction could equal severe consequences.

NOTE: When you are passing any large vehicle, if you cannot see the driver in the side mirrors, he/she cannot see you.  JUST BECAUSE you can see them in the mirror DOES NOT mean they are looking and seeing you.  Always expect them to pull over in your lane.  WATCH THE FRONT WHEEL, if it starts to turn, they are coming over. Be ready to break while passing, always.

I have seen what happens when drivers and motorcyclists assume.  Saw an 18 wheeler pull over on top of a group of 30+ motorcyclists.  The driver did not see them (he did not do his visual scans correctly, and did not assume someone was in his blind spot.)  And the motorcyclists were not paying attention to his actions either, as they had been hanging in his blind spot for the past few miles, and did not slow when the truck's turn signal came on. 

Sometimes you wish the mind came with an erase button.

IF you are passing, do not assume the driver of the vehicle you are passing sees you, period.  If you are changing lanes, do not assume the lane is clear, period.

HvyMtl said:

I have seen what happens when drivers and motorcyclists assume.  Saw an 18 wheeler pull over on top of a group of 30+ motorcyclists.  The driver did not see them (he did not do his visual scans correctly, and did not assume someone was in his blind spot.) 

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This is a good argument for loud exhaust pipes.  That trucker should have heard 30+ motorcycles.  Loud pipes save lives.

Steve...I agree there are many arguments for loud pipes but not in this case. Too hard to hear anything in an 18 wheeler with that diesel sitting right beside you like a COE or in front like a long nose. Pipes dump right beside the cab and the bikes are behind you in the blind spot.
  It seem that a group of bikes develop a single mind, if one does something stupid...they all do something stupid as a group. I don't ride in large groups unless it is organized to the point of road guards. I keep in my mind that riding a motorcycle is like a video game. The goal of other vehicles is to eliminate me from the game, and my goal is to make it back from the grocery store.

I pull a 34' trailer and my truck is a crew cab with a standard bed. I travel at the legal speed limit. I an sick of some note SOME small minded people on motor cycles. There are times I find a place to pull over and let people get by. I will not pull over along the road due to people that through bottles and trash out the window. I have eight tires to keep inflated. I run into people that drive cars and cut me off, truck that think the road belongs to them, motorcycles and deer who think thy have the right a way.  Share the road it is for everyone. I have to say I use caution around motorcycles in a group on the freeway they have to impress the people and wind up doing something stupid to impress everyone. When I see a group I use caution. There is one group I traveled with in Dover Delaware they went to stop demonstrators at the air base that flew in fallen soldier.  They are heroes and I have all the respect for them.

Luca1369 said:

This is a good argument for loud exhaust pipes.  That trucker should have heard 30+ motorcycles.  Loud pipes save lives.

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BS!!!!

Luca1369 said:

This is a good argument for loud exhaust pipes.  That trucker should have heard 30+ motorcycles.  Loud pipes save lives.

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Depends.  If loud enough, it might get one shot.

Maybe the trucker was like Jerry Reed in Smokey and the Bandit...he wasn't considered much of a man by the bikers - and wasn't much of a truck driver either according to the choke & puke cook. ;D

I guess I should cut my muffler out of my Diesel and run a straight pipe to be safe!

eliallen said:

BS!!!!

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BS?  BS?  And nobody closed this thread down yet? 

Walk a mile in my shoes before you blurt out examples of ignorance.  I've been riding for 40 years, long and hard, with a 1%er club, and there is nothing you can tell me about riding bikes or riding bikes in packs.  Loud pipes do save lives.  Look at it like this:  You're alongside a car and in their blind spot.  The driver can barely see over the dash, or perhaps their talking on the phone.  They don't see you.  You know they don't see you.  Your little 12 volt horn won't do squat.  Reving your motor might just save your life.  It's also amazing how much better your visibility gets when you have a blue light on your bike.  For some reason people see cops on bikes far more than ordinary riders.

I've driven trucks before as well, from dump trucks to OTR, and I know how loud a truck can be, I also know that 30 bikes, at least if they're Harleys, can be loud.  However, coming up from behind it would be hard to hear them until you can probably see the guys in the front of the pack.

As for the tough guy who suggests a loud bike will get shot, better guess again pal, the guy on the bike is very likely armed as well.  I really get tired of people thumping their chests just because they carry a gun or because they have an overdose of testosterone.  You might fool some folks, but not all.  It's one thing to say loud pipes might get one shot, it's another to look down the barrel of your weapon and kill somebody for such a foolish reason and YOU know it.

Now, with that out of the way, I'm stuffed with turkey and dressing and hope everybody else is.   

I had a bike and I lost my buddy that was to be my best friend at my wedding two days before the wedding. The area we live in got built up and more cars and trucks on our narrow roads. I was asked (told) by my wife to get rid of the bike. I noticed people could nor hear my bike until I was next to them or in front of them. My bike had no baffles. I used common sense and kept space between them and me. If loud pipes make riders feel safer than use it but when I am in traffic and the biker is next to me at a light cleaning out his cylinder this is very annoying.
My best friend takes his Harley every year to Florida to bike week and back his bike has stock pipes he has never had a problem. He has had some people do stupid things but we all have had some people do dumb things. I do not dislike bikers I dislike straight through pipes on a motor cycle.  Helmets save lived but most riders refuse to use them.   

skirk55 said:

when I am in traffic and the biker is next to me at a light cleaning out his cylinder this is very annoying.

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Agreed.  I'm not in favor of all those folks that like loud pipes for the sake of loud pipes, but they do have their place, it is the owner that makes the difference.  I have never had a problem with loud pipes, except a few people who pulled alongside in a car and stuck their finger in their ear as if it would make a difference.  But I also knew better than to rev my engine for no good reason like so many do, just to hear the noise they make.  I much prefer the tuned exhaust, much better for the bike.

Just a different perspective from someone who also rode motorcycles, albeit a long time ago....

Thanks partly to damage suffered during my days at a steel plant many years ago, I often can't tell which direction sounds are coming from. The louder the sound, the worse the problem. So, when a few loud bikes 'suddenly' come up alongside me from the rear, I have no clue where they are, and I'm just as likely to look for them in the wrong direction. It would be all too easy for me to move into their path because my ears think they're approaching from the other side. (I don't do that because I consciously maintain my heading, and hope my ears are again fooling me).

Combine that with the fact that loud pipes direct most of their sound to the rear.  It makes no sense to announce your presence to folks you've already passed - it's the ones in front of you that are the danger.

Amazing how many people don't like loud pipes on bikes, yet come up with all manner of theories as to why they can't be heard by other vehicles.  They can be heard!  I know, I've had enough middle digits raised in salute, seen plenty of fingers stuck in ears, and noticed plenty of car windows rolling up.  They knew I was coming before I was in their blind spot.  That gave me a bit of a safety edge.

The fact is, if you're loud the guy in the car that may take you out has a better chance of hearing you and realizing you're there, unless they have a hearing problem, have their head stuck in the sand, or have their stereo blasting at high Db's which if you ask me is a much greater problem than loud motorcycles. 

So please, unless you are a student of acoustic science, let's not waste bandwidth discussing why or why not the pipes can be heard and the Doppler effect, rather, learn that bikes, especially in greater numbers, create a tremendous amount of sound which often helps people realize that something is behind them.  Even if they save one life, they're worth it.  If you don't like loud pipes, that's your choice, most folks don't, including many bike riders, but know that there are plenty of people in this world who are alive because they have loud pipes and somebody heard them.

I've had enough middle digits raised in salute, seen plenty of fingers stuck in ears, and noticed plenty of car windows rolling up.

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LOL Steve, it's been many years since I received a 'salute' while riding a motorcycle and, back in the old country, it was more likely to be a 2-finger salute    But I don't recall seeing the fingers-in-the-ears. OTOH my last motorcycle had a single-cylinder engine that, together with the fishtail muffler, tended to sound like 'plop, plop, plop'; This resulted in me being given the nickname Tommy tractor by my fellow riders 

My limited college study of acoustics was too long ago to be of much use, although I do recall spending time in anechoic chambers, and taking countless sound level readings in field studies at different indoor and outdoor locations. My real-life experiences defy some of those laws of physics anyway, but that shouldn't disqualify me from presenting a perspective.

Hopefully, it's understood that my issue with loud sounds has little to do with any anti-motorcycle bias, which was why I prefaced my reply with "from someone who rode motorcycles". FWIW my hearing issue also manifests itself with loud music emanating either from an open car window or from a stage. One that really drives me nuts is the dreaded sound of a vehicle screeching to a halt; I have no clue which direction it's coming from, and don't know if I should brace for impact. Another is the intolerant driver honking his/her horn at someone; I have no clue who's doing the honking, and my other half will sometimes say "it's OK, they're not honking at you" 

If anyone calls me in a noisy room, even if they're standing virtually next to me, I'm almost guaranteed to look in the wrong direction; When I eventually locate the person, I find myself automatically apologizing for the lack of directional sensitivity in my hearing.

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving, and that a good night's sleep will find you feeling well in the morning. I'm off to pay the bill for that wasted bandwidth