Lights always on

Canadian law required that my '94 Itasca Suncruiser lights come on with the ignition. I'm glad they do --the clan Maxwell is on the way! 

Alfa38User said:

Interesting!!!

There are likely relays involved to power at least some of the trailer lights, otherwise the signal flasher rates would change when the trailer is hooked up due to the extra light bulb filaments involved. Can you find them and then perhaps hear them clicking??

You should be able to find the actual wiring diagrams on the Winnebago site if you don't already have them...

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Well, it is possible that relays adjust for the extra load, and that is what the rapid flashing is, but if that is the case there not adjusting right, other wise the 4 pin socket on the conector would not be heating up. 

I have not started rewiring it yet, but the way it is sure seems strange to me. 

If it is wired right, then if I take off down the road after start up, I am going to be running down the road for about the first 3 to 5 minutes with out trailer lights. 

Actually I would not be taking off that fast, as the engine needs to warm up. 

The trailer lights should come on when the motor home lights are turned on, because one could be broken down on the side of the road at night needing to have lights so other vehicles can see you, but then you would only have motor home lights and no trailer lights. unless the engine was running, and no engine might be why your on the side of the road. 

It is only the running lights on the trailer that do this.  The brake and blinker lights are wired into the motor home light circuits. 

If I'm not making a big mistake it canbe fixed by cutting the brown trailer light lead wire, and hooking it back up to the running light circuit from one of the motor home running lights.  So unless there is a reason not to do that, I see no other way to fix it. 

Maybe some politician wrote a law that says your trailer lights have to be on all the time ? 

Lou Schneider said:

Your headlights use about 60 watts each, maybe less in daytime running light mode.  Usually the daytime mode isn't as bright as the nighttime mode.

1 horsepower = 745 watts, so 120 watts is 0.16 Horsepower.  How big is your engine, and what percentage of it's output are the lights consuming?

In other words, the extra fuel used is insignificant and probably unmeasurable.

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Many people would probably be surprised at the small amount of horse power that is required to maintain speed.  For a typical car to run down the road at 30 mph ~5 hp.  At 55 mph ~ 10 hp. 

A motor home surely would require more, but I'm not familure with those figures.  I would guess in the range of 20 to 30 hp. 

All that is required is over comming wind resistance and mechanical resistance.  Climbing hills is another story , then you have to over come gravity. 

Your point would still be valid, as 1/10th hp would be a small fraction of 10 hp.  i.e 1/100th.  Which says that for every 99 miles you drive you could have driven 100 miles, assuming we drove on flat level road with no appreciable head wind. 

If you drive the vehicle for 100,000 miles you have lost 1,000 miles .  i.e. 1/100 th

Then multiply that by every car on the road.      For every 99 cars driven , 100 cars could be driven, with the same fuel usage.  For every 100,000 cars driven another ~1000 cars could be added, with out using more fuel.  etc.

The figures are of coarse estimates, as we don't know what % of driving is done on flat level roads, on the highway verses city, etc.  One could figure it out by taking average gas milage and then computing average hp used for a particular vehicle. 

If I'm not making a big mistake it can be fixed by cutting the brown trailer light lead wire, and hooking it back up to the running light circuit from one of the motor home running lights.  So unless there is a reason not to do that, I see no other way to fix it.

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The other way, of course, is to get the wiring diagram from Winnebago's web site and figure it out from that before cutting stuff. And/or build yourself an adapter from the big trailer plug installed on the MH to the trailer plug and try that. The parts required are not expensive.

4-pin connectors are all over the place...have someone w/a p/u pull close enough to the trailer and hook on (need the vehicle ground) and try the lights ...answers that question ..
As to savings of not running lights in daytime ..if it saves one life what is the value.?? Also as costly as it is to run commercial vehicles I am convinced there is ample proof that daytime lights lower accidents thus costs.

4-pin connectors are all over the place...have someone w/a p/u pull close enough to the trailer and hook on (need the vehicle ground) and try the lights ...answers that question ..

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I have 5 trailers, they all behave the same way when hooked to the motor home, as does tow car.

All trailers and tow car behave normally when hooked to my pick up. 

When I turn on motor home running lights only there is no voltage on any wire leading to the trailer electrical hook up.  Thus re working an adapter would not accomplish anything. 

I would know what circuit the trailer light "brown" running light wire is hooked to if I knew which circuit only comes on when the engine is running, and blinks rapidly for about 15 seconds, and then stays on.  A wiring diagram is not going to tell me which circuit a wire is incorrectly wired to. 

Sounds to me like it is the trailer battery charging wire.  But I'm not sure.

I know how to fix it, just cut the brown wire and hook it to the motor home running light circuit.  But I would like to figure out what is going on as there might be some fancy way they wired it, which is malfunctioning. 

Wiring illustration seems to cover everything but the outside vehicle lights. 

Maybe that would be covered by Freightliner?

Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) says that personal injury claims for vehicles that added DRLs as a standard feature , compared to the claim frequencies for the same makes and models prior increased on a per vehicle basis.

I have 5 trailers, they all behave the same way when hooked to the motor home, as does tow car.
All trailers and tow car behave normally when hooked to my pick up. 

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Too bad you did not think to mention this on your first post, it could have saved a lot of useless speculation.

Good luck!!!

http://www.motorists.org/drl/history

National Motorist Association says DRL's increase accidents.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/vehicles/doc/consultations/drl_milnes_roy.pdf

Alfa38User said:

Too bad you did not think to mention this on your first post, it could have saved a lot of useless speculation.

Good luck!!!

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Sorry about that, but at first posting I had not tried switching trailers around yet.  I'm learning as I go. 

To recap:


The trailer lights come on when the air brake button is pushed in. i.e. off. and the engine is running, as do the head lights.


The reason I posted the two problems together, is there is a chance they are connected.

When I start the engine, I have no trailer lights for about 5 minutes. Then they blink rapidly for about 15 seconds, rapid as in 5 times a second. Then they are steady on.

There are about 10 wires, havent counted them going to the trailer hook up, there is an adapter that reduces that down to 4 wires. The 4 wire connector on the trailer is over heating, looks burnt.

All trailers hooked up to the motor home behave the same way. All trailers hooked up to my pick up work fine, so the problem is in the motor home.

If the engine is not started and air button is not pushed in, and I turn on the running lights / head lights there is no wire going to the trailer hook up that has volatage on it, and there are no trailer lights.  All running lights on the motor home work fine / normally, so trailer running lights and motor home lights are not on the same circuit.

To get trailer lights, the engine must be started, and air brake putton pushed in.  Then both the trailer lights and head lights are on, while no running lights on the motor home are on. None of this would really be a problem if the 4 pin connector was not over heating. 

I think I would just rip out that 4 pin adapter and start over again. You should have everything you need at the larger trailer plug (is it a standard 7 pin?). In fact, you can buy a 7:4 adapter in most any auto parts store or RV center and not have to wire anything. Assuming the 7 pin plug is wired correctly, of course.

Here is a 7:4 pin adapter that would do the job nicely, and includes a test light.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200317985_200317985

I still question the addition of the 4 pin connector (that seems to be installed on your coach!!) on the coach side as it seems to be the troublesome one. That connector was possibly added by a PO and may have been wired to suit HIS needs or HIS trailer. That is why I suggested using a home made 7 pin to 4 pin adapter so that the STANDARD 7 pin connector that was wired originally by the coach manufacturer (and is likely correct), to furnish your trailer supply.

All the pins in the standard connector can (most likely) be identified using the URL info I posted earlier. Perhaps there are additional diagrams available from Winnebago for the wiring you mentioned that is missing on the diagram you have. (If your trailer connector has been overheated, there is a message there and it should be changed anyway.)

Good Luck in tracking this down.

On edit: Gary's suggestion is a very good one!!!! There are way too many unknowns here.

"All trailers hooked up to the motor home behave the same way. All trailers hooked up to my pick up work fine, so the problem is in the motor home.

If the engine is not started and air button is not pushed in, and I turn on the running lights / head lights there is no wire going to the trailer hook up that has volatage on it, and there are no trailer lights.  All running lights on the motor home work fine / normally, so trailer running lights and motor home lights are not on the same circuit."

You have way more patience than me..by now the wires would have been cut/capped and end of problem. Altho I am curious as to why a 10 to 4 connection was needed.. Make sure you seal the splices...I use heat shrink tubing usually back-braid the wires to insure a good connection..over kill some might say.

Gary RV Roamer said:

I think I would just rip out that 4 pin adapter and start over again. You should have everything you need at the larger trailer plug (is it a standard 7 pin?). In fact, you can buy a 7:4 adapter in most any auto parts store or RV center and not have to wire anything. Assuming the 7 pin plug is wired correctly, of course.

Here is a 7:4 pin adapter that would do the job nicely, and includes a test light.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200317985_200317985

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That is what I have , minus the test lights.  I have one on the motor home and one on my pick up,  I even interchanged them, and both work on the pick up , and both work the same on the motor home.  i.e strangely. 

However I do like the test lights. 

that is the point, I don't heve everything I need at the 7 pin adaptor.  When the motor home running lights are turned on, with out the engine running and park brake button pushed in, there is no voltage on any of the 7 / 10 wires. 

The running lights on the motor home are on, and none of those 7 / 10 wires has any juice.  I guess I should count them so I will know how many wires there are.  Thus there is no way to switch existing wires around, or rewire the adapter, to get trailer lights. 

The only way to get juice to the trailer hook up is to start the engine, and push in the emergency brake button.  Then there is no juice for about 5 minutes, then it blinks rapidly for about 10 to 15 seconds, 5 o 6 times a second, then the juice is steady on. 

Turning the running lights on at the light switch on the motor home has no effect on the trailer lights. That does not supply voltage to any of the wires going to the 7 / 10 pin connector. 

My origional thought was that it must be wired wrong, So I wanted to identify which wire had voltage when the motor home running lights were turned on.  I checked all of them, and none of them have any voltage. 

If it is wired wrong, it must be the case that the brown running light wire is hooked to the wrong thing at the other end of the motor home. 

I don't know if it is wired wrong or not, but I suspect that the vehicle lights were wired by Freightliner, rather than Winnebago.  If it is not wired wrong then they are trying to accomplish something such as trailer lights always on for safety?

Problem is if that is the case they didn't think it through because if it is night time, your engine dies, and your on the side of the road , then you have no trailer lights, which is an accident waiting to happen.

I guess I will just cut the brown wire (running light wire) , and tie it into a jumper from the motor home running lights.  That will surely fix it.  Every vehicle I have owned before was wired that way. 

I just don't understand what is going on.  The trailer lights come on in the same way as the DRL lights.  Which is fine, baring the above mentioned exception,  i.e. a break down on the side of the road,  except for the over heating at the connector. 

The over heating could be caused by loose connection between the 4 pin hook up and the adapter, except for the fact that I changed out the adapter for the one on my pick up, and put on a new 4 pin hook up on the trailer and nothing changed.  It is still getting hot. 

I'm pretty sure cutting the wire and jumping it to the motor home running light circuit will fix it, I just hate to rewire it before I understand what is going on. 

If the connection is warming up than there is a bad connection/wiring issue. Could corrosion be an issue...maybe inside the plug maybe even a factory issue..the overheating may be the issue in a nutshell..no connection should heat up.

Well, you could call Freightliner and Winnebago and ask them - they both have an excellent customer service lines. But I can assure you that they did not design the system to have a 5 minute delay and blink several times before activating trailer lights. What sense woud that make?

The trailer tow plug was added by the body manufacturer but probably used a harness that came with the chassis as the source.  You need to dig into the wires behind the plug and see what's what, then wire as needed.

Gary RV Roamer said:

Well, you could call Freightliner and Winnebago and ask them - they both have an excellent customer service lines. But I can assure you that they did not design the system to have a 5 minute delay and blink several times before activating trailer lights. What sense woud that make?

The trailer tow plug was added by the body manufacturer but probably used a harness that came with the chassis as the source.  You need to dig into the wires behind the plug and see what's what, then wire as needed.

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I think your right, it would not make any sense.  I can't really think of any circuit that should behave that way.  The delay and then rapid blinking almost has to be a relay or another electronic device of some sort. 

My guess is a  trailer brake controller, but I don't see why that would affect the running lights.

Gary RV Roamer said:

My guess is a  trailer brake controller, but I don't see why that would affect the running lights.

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If they have the wires crossed it would.  I can see I need to do some more checking.  See what the voltage is when brake peddle is pushed and identify as many wire functions as possible.  If it in not wired into the brake circuit, then there should be another wire that is the brake circuit. 

Well, I may never know what they had the trailer lights wired to, but I wired them into the motor home running lights, and it works fine.