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Author Topic: Noisy Water Pump  (Read 11113 times)

geodrake

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Noisy Water Pump
« on: November 04, 2011, 08:43:51 AM »
When our water pump runs the pipes throughout the MH rattle. If we are on city water there is no noise.  Originally I thought the problem was related to how the pump itself is mounted, but it finally dawned on me that the problem has got to be caused by the pump pulsating (think square wave A.C.).  Does anybody agree?

  • Is anybody aware of a fix, short of pump replacement?
  • PPLmotorhomes list two Flowjet pumps (4406 & 4306) one is a 7 amp draw and the other a 4 amp draw.  Why would anyone want the 7 amp pump?
  • It appears to me that the difference between the high end pumps and low end pumps is variable speed, the advantage of which relates to someone opening a tap while another tap (think shower) is in use.  Any other benefit?



George Drake

denmarc

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 09:00:52 AM »
I had a similar problem with my TT.  Though an older TT, it reminded me of "water hammer" that you might hear in your home.  Pump worked fine.  I installed a makeshift arrestor on the outlet side of pump.  Cost me about $10.00 if I remember correctly (been a few years).

If unfamiliar with water hammer, Google it.  Keep in mind your RV's plumbing and put the two ideas together.
Worked for me.

Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

JayT

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 09:17:37 AM »
I did two things to resolve the pipe rattle (water hammer) that  I had in my MH. First I found the pipes that where rattling the most and insulated them with foam pipe insulation, this stops them from vibrating against the wood in the wall. The next thing I did was to install a Shurflo Accumulator Tank, this helps the water flow to remain smooth and constant thus Reducing noise levels of pump cycles and water hammer. Now there is no noise and my DW is very happy as well as me.

Jay T
We have been RV'ing for 20 years and much tent camping prior to our first RV.
2008 Holiday Rambler Arista 33'
1983 CJ7 Jeep
Amateur radio operator call sign K6RUV
Home is Southern California in the Coachella Valley

Just Lou

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 09:48:48 AM »
I added an 18" flexible hose (with a loop in it) to both the input and output of the pump and it helped with the hammering quite a bit.   Hoses and attachment adapters were all standard sink and toilet hardware from Lowe's.  I'll consider an accumulator tank when I find a convenient place to mount it, just to reduce the need for pump cycles caused by every tap opening.  But, if the pump were any quieter now, I would probably be worried that it could run and I wouldn't hear it. :D
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

denmarc

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 10:13:33 AM »
As Just Lou mentioned, a homemade water hammer arrestor might be the answer.  I didn't use a loop configuration though.  Just a 8' vertical arrestor on the outlet port of the pump.  Being full of air, a cushion for the water in the system to slam against while pump is running.  An accumulator tank might be an uncessary expense at this point.   

Jay T did touch on a possiblity that maybe some of the plumbing has come loose from it's mounting.  Something to check out.  You know how vibration travel through solids.
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 01:22:38 PM »
I'm not sure you are hearing a "water hammer", i.e. pressure shock in the system. The pump cycles on and off as the pressure falls and rises. The frequency of that depends on the flow volume, and if the faucets are wide open the pressure stays low and the pump doesn't cycle at all. If the pump is running and you hear constant noises, it is more likely vibration than a water hammer.  The loud sounds comes from the pump mounts and from semi-rigid piping picking up the vibration. Rubber mounts and a short length of flexible tubing usually cures that.  An accumulator is the easiest cure for water hammer, though. Water hammer noises usually come as an after shock when the pump shuts off, though it can happen when it turns on as well.

If you already have a variable flow pump, the possibility of water hammer is much reduced. If not, it might be a good upgrade (about $150). Here is good one:
http://www.rvupgradestore.com/Aquajet-RV-Variable-Speed-Water-Pump-p/aquajetrv.htm
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 01:24:16 PM by Gary RV Roamer »
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

geodrake

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 03:27:04 PM »
I'm not sure you are hearing a "water hammer", i.e. pressure shock in the system.
Gary:
I'm not sure what I am hearing either.  It is a constant thing at maybe 15 or 20 pulses per second and the pump is running continuous while the tap is open.   It is not the typical on "thud" sometimes heard in stick houses when the tap is shut. 

George Drake

Just Lou

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 07:12:35 PM »
I also used the term "hammering" when I knew differently.  The motor vibration, or pulsing, is all that I had, and all that I cured with the flex hoses.  Thanks for the clarification, Gary, and sorry if I added to the confusion.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

geodrake

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 10:14:54 PM »
Lou, are we talking the same thing?  All the pipes throughout the MH seem to be banging against the walls etc. as the water pressure pulses?  It is not the motor it self vibrating.  Is this what you fixed with the flex pipe?
George Drake

Just Lou

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 10:29:51 PM »
Lou, are we talking the same thing?  All the pipes throughout the MH seem to be banging against the walls etc. as the water pressure pulses?  It is not the motor it self vibrating.  Is this what you fixed with the flex pipe?

Mine was just the pump.  The pipes were not making noise or actually moving.

Are you sure it's not just the sound of the pump being radiated down the pipes.  If you can easily get to your pump, try un-mounting it from the hard surface and lay it on a small pillow or foam rubber pad to see if the noise is deadened.  I can't imagine how the pump could actually vibrate enough to rattle all the pipes.

Has it always done this or did it just suddenly start?  Maybe the pipes near the pump need to be anchored a bit.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Mavarick

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 12:24:12 AM »
My rig is an 03 and I don't hear any plumbing noise except for the "normal" pump vibration. I have done some rubber mounting etc under the pump like others but it's not very bad at all.
I am using an accumulator which I'm sure helps the cycle time but I don't understand the "plumbing noise". If it was actually loose pipe mounts wouldn't it be noisy on city water also when you start and stop a faucet? City water doesn't drop as much in pressure compared to the water pump but I would think there is a psi drop.
What if you turned the valve over to city water but do not hook up, then turn on your water pump and see if noise is still there, shouldn't hurt the pump. Your water pump will be running but not pushing any water and the plumbing will still have some water in it. Not moving any actual water should help to distinguish if its motor/pump noise or actually something loose in the plumbing right?
2009 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43 QRP
Powerglide Chassis, 425 Cummins, Allison 6 Speed
2010 CRV - Blackhawk 2 - Air Force One
2002 Heritage Classic
Washington State

rls7201

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 10:38:07 AM »
George,

The pulses generated by my pump was causing the pipes to bang against the floor and walls in my Bounder. I eliminated most of the racket by shimming the pipes with sponges and rags. Like Lou, I didn't want to eliminate all the noise, just in case I had a leak.

Richard
Richard  & Michele Shields
& Eg the Bounder Cat
Gladstone, MO
95 Bounder 32H F53
460/528 stroker

Larry N.

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 11:17:36 AM »
George,

I think my Bounder has the same problem you are describing, a pulsation that seems (near as I can tell) to come from the pump running, then shutting off, then almost instantly starting again. In mine, it appears the pump on and off pressure settings are not properly coordinated (don't know how to fix it), but when I run water into the toilet (higher flow) the problem isn't there. When I run water into any sink the problem IS there.

I'm not guaranteeing that the above description is accurate, but it's how it seems to me.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 11:41:10 AM »
The first question for all of you is what make and model of pump do you have, and is it a fixed or variable flow model. They act somewhat differently. However, both turn off and on with pressure, usually off at 45-48 psi and on at about 35 (but that varies by pump model). Some models are adjustable for pressure, though the adjustment is usually not mentioned in any manual.

If the problem is recent, check the pump inlet screen for debris. Inadequate or intermittent water flow into the pump can make it acts weird.  And these pumps do generate enough vibration to send pulses through the tubing, perhaps even enough to make a tube throb against walls or other tubing. Sometimes a water tube has shifted just a fraction so you get a noise where there was none before. Just wiggling them around can sometimes fix the problem. Adding the softer flex tubing near the pump head as Lou did also dampens the vibration pulses.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Just Lou

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 12:29:44 PM »
My pump is whatever came standard in the '97 Bounder.  I doubt seriously that it's variable flow or adjustable.

I've not experienced the on/off noise that Larry mentioned, however I can produce a "chatter" sound at a faucet sometimes by adjusting it to a very low flow rate, but I can do this in my stick house as well.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 01:21:43 PM »
It's usually the variable flow ones that have an adjustment of sorts. Sometimes there is a screw on the pressure control, though. Might appear to be one of the mounting screws for the pump head.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

rls7201

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 03:47:43 PM »
My pump is whatever came standard in the '97 Bounder.  I doubt seriously that it's variable flow or adjustable.

I've not experienced the on/off noise that Larry mentioned, however I can produce a "chatter" sound at a faucet sometimes by adjusting it to a very low flow rate, but I can do this in my stick house as well.

Lou, Your pump and mine are the Shurflo Classic 2088, 2.8 GPM. Not variable flow but the pressure is adjustable.

Real Bounders are brown. GRIN
Richard
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 03:50:45 PM by rls7201 »
Richard  & Michele Shields
& Eg the Bounder Cat
Gladstone, MO
95 Bounder 32H F53
460/528 stroker

Just Lou

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 04:15:47 PM »
Lou, Your pump and mine are the Shurflo Classic 2088, 2.8 GPM. Not variable flow but the pressure is adjustable.

Real Bounders are brown. GRIN
Richard

Thanks Richard,  that's very useful information..........
........OH!, ....and good info on the pump too ;) :D
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Larry N.

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 06:56:51 AM »
...
Real Bounders are brown. GRIN
Richard

Not Maroon and black?  :'( :'(
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

Just Lou

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 08:02:01 AM »
Not Maroon and black?  :'( :'(

If it takes longer than .10 seconds to identify it, it's not a "Real" Bounder. ;)

Like da man said, "Real Bounders are brown". :D

However, that is one nice looking "Pretender" you've got there, Larry.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Larry N.

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 01:14:49 PM »
Thanks, Lou -- it's "Bound" to be good lookin', since it's fairly new (2010).  ::)
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

dleclerc

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2017, 07:39:01 AM »
I reduced the vibration of the pump with an home maid water hammer reducer. The vertical pipe of the device is full of air, never with water. The air inside the vertical pipe dampened the water hammering in the pipes. The pump induces vibrations into the pipes. Excuse my English, my first language is french...


Rene T

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Re: Noisy Water Pump
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2017, 07:59:06 AM »
I reduced the vibration of the pump with an home maid water hammer reducer. The vertical pipe of the device is full of air, never with water. The air inside the vertical pipe dampened the water hammering in the pipes. The pump induces vibrations into the pipes. Excuse my English, my first language is french...

Frenchy, welcome to the forum.   ;D :D
It would be good to post your solution in a new post under Tech Talk, Shade Tree or General Discussion. It would save everyone from reading through this entire post which is quite long. Also, I wasn't able to open your pictures. I'd like to see what the pipe looks like.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

 

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