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Author Topic: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle  (Read 104538 times)

gartash

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Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« on: January 02, 2012, 09:07:58 PM »
Hi. I am new to this forum and looking for some advice. We currently own a 18 foot bumper pull, but looking to go with a larger 5th wheel hopefully this year some time. We will also be purchasing a new tow vehicle. I am debating whether the extra money for a diesel engine is worth the extra cost on the price tag. We will be doing some mountain traveling where the power will be helpful, but not all of our trips will be this straining. We are considering at this time the Chevy 2500hd whether it be gas or diesel. Any suggestions, opinions, or thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.

aterry

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 10:30:17 PM »
I have a 2008 Chevy 2500HD with the 6.0 Gas engine and it does ok, but not great. I live in SW Missouri and we have some pretty decent hills around here and I struggle a little  with our 8000 pound 5th wheel. I'm ok if I can get a good run at them but if it's one long continuous hill I start really slowing down about half way up. I wish I would have waited and gotten a diesel. From everyone I talked to there is no comparison. One instance I remember I was pulling up a steep hill and only going about 40 when a 2500HD diesel pulling a 5th wheel about the same size as mine passed me like I was sitting still - - the speed limit was 70mph. The gas trucks are definitely cheaper but I think in the long run you'd be happier with a diesel especially if you are going to be traveling in the mountains.

Also - I get about 10mpg with my trailer....a lot of the Chevy 2500's only have a 26 gallon tank. I didn't realize that when I bought mine and it drives me crazy to only be able to go 260 miles on a tank. 200 safely. I know the diesels have a 34 gallon tank and I've heard they get better mileage.

Hope all that helps.
Andy
2011 Canyon Trail
2009 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
SW Missouri

donn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 10:38:44 PM »
Before buying ANY trucks, first you must decide how much trailer you are going for.  Gas motors are fine for towing up to about 10,000 pounds.  Anything over that get a diesel.  Also please forget a 2500 (3/4 ton) trucks.  You will run out of load capacity long before you get much trailer.  A fifth wheel will place approx 20% of it's loaded weight directly over the rear axle.  So even a 10K fifth wheel will put 2000 pounds on the truck.

edjunior

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 07:13:45 AM »
If you do any mountain/hill towing at all, you will be glad you got a diesel.  You're going to see some opinions where a gasser will be fine, but believe me, you will be much happier with the diesel, even without the mountain/hilly towing. 

I don't believe you need to "forget a a 2500".  Unless you get into the 5th wheels that are pushing beyond 12,000 GVWR, a 2500/250 should be just fine.  But you do have to be aware of the weights and buy a truck that will be capable of handling it.  In other words, look at and buy your trailer first.  Then you can be sure and get enough truck to match it.

One more thing...always use GROSS vehicle weight rating (GVWR) when figuring your weights, not the dry weight.
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Foto-n-T

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 08:55:02 AM »
Each response above brings up a valid point but the over-all consensus you're going to get from those of us who drag these things around is that diesel is the way to go. On the other hand you have to gauge your decision based also on how much traveling with this rig that you are going to do. If your simply heading out for a weekend once every month or so you might not need the added expense of a diesel truck. Conversely, if you plan on part-timing or snow-birding you'll definitely want a truck without spark plugs.
Joe

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rvpuller

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 08:55:39 AM »
Before buying ANY trucks, first you must decide how much trailer you are going for.  Gas motors are fine for towing up to about 10,000 pounds.  Anything over that get a diesel.  Also please forget a 2500 (3/4 ton) trucks.  You will run out of load capacity long before you get much trailer.  A fifth wheel will place approx 20% of it's loaded weight directly over the rear axle.  So even a 10K fifth wheel will put 2000 pounds on the truck.


Don't believe this about a properly set up gas truck, we started pulling a 16K 5ver in 01 when our Ford V10 gas truck after we traded in our 12K 5ver. Our present trailer and truck grossing at 24K has been in 49 states and 6 provinces over Berthoud Pass (11307 ft) in CO pulling out 14.5 ft boat behind the trailer every year. Just look at all the class A motor homes that are gas they are all over 10K and pulling cars behind them without any problems. Unless it's a light trailer I would go with a one ton but the ratings on most of the trucks have really changed in the last few years so I would do my own homework to make a decision on what TV in best for your situation.

Denny     
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Joezeppy

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 09:09:10 AM »
If you can (or if you "want to") afford the diesel, go for it - yes, they make towing easier. However, I stuck with gas when I purchased my 2010 Sierra. Here are my thoughts:

I have a 2008 Chevy 2500HD with the 6.0 Gas engine and it does ok, but not great. I live in SW Missouri and we have some pretty decent hills around here and I struggle a little  with our 8000 pound 5th wheel. I'm ok if I can get a good run at them but if it's one long continuous hill I start really slowing down about half way up.
Our TT weighs in at about 8,500 lbs. I am actually quite happy with my gasser's performance. I still slow down on the hills and get passed by the diesels but overall,  this motor is much stronger than the 2002 6.0L I replaced.

Also - I get about 10mpg with my trailer....a lot of the Chevy 2500's only have a 26 gallon tank. I didn't realize that when I bought mine and it drives me crazy to only be able to go 260 miles on a tank. 200 safely. I know the diesels have a 34 gallon tank and I've heard they get better mileage.
I also get about 10 MPG overall towing. Diesel milage will be better. I know with the gas motor, gas tank size depends on box length: 6.5' = 26 gals and 8' = 34 gals. Not sure if that holds true for the diesels or not.

Also please forget a 2500 (3/4 ton) trucks.  You will run out of load capacity long before you get much trailer.  A fifth wheel will place approx 20% of it's loaded weight directly over the rear axle.  So even a 10K fifth wheel will put 2000 pounds on the truck.

I disagree (with "forget the 2500" comment) - based on my owner's manual, the 3500 identical to my 2500 actually has slightly LESS load capacity since the truck is heavier and they have the same 18,500 GCWR. Also, if you move up to a diesel engine, the diesel engine is heavier so it will lead to lower load capacity (which translates to pin weight). You have to look at ALL the numbers, not just max tow rating.
Joe & Kim
Upstate NY - Kuyahoora Valley
2010 GMC Sierra 2500HD - 6.0L gasser
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livinlife

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 09:42:04 AM »
I had 1997 Dodge dually work truck with a gas v-10 pulling a 24 ft. cargo trailer around 10,000lbs.  Didn't hold up. Traded for a 2004 Dodge Ram dually with a 5.9-liter Cummins turbo diesel.  It was a difference of daylight and dark!  The diesel ran like a sewing machine, never broke down.  Personally I prefer the ton over the 3/4 ton.

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 09:57:38 AM »
I'm also a DodgeRam 2500 Cummins Diesel powered... Much more torque for pulling heavy trailers and cost of operation is much less than any gasoline power tow vehicle. I'm pulling a 31' Jayco Eagle Travel Trailer (8,500# GVWR) and my gross combine weight is roughly 16,080# the last time I checked. I've zero problem pulling over a 6-7% grade and last trip I was getting 14.1 MPG...Hard to touch with gasoline powered vehicles.
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
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Derby6

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 01:03:12 PM »
the over-all consensus you're going to get from those of us who drag these things around is that diesel is the way to go.

What he said.
If you can afford it, get the Diesel--you won't regret it.
I'd say go with the 1 ton vs 3/4 ton as well.  I don't think the price diffrence is that great between them and this way as you upgrade trailers, you know your good to go with a 1 Ton Diesel...
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aubreyshaw

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 01:35:23 PM »
What about the price difference in gas vs diesel FUEL right now?  It's about .60 per gallon MORE for diesel fuel where I live.  Will the better fuel efficency with a diesel even this out?  Do you really get better with diesel?
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Foto-n-T

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 02:08:22 PM »
Yes diesel costs more today than it did prior to 2007 when the government forced us into using ULSD (Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel) versus the easier to produce LSD (Low Sulphur Diesel). The fuel mileage difference probably won't make it cheaper on fuel to operate but the cost of the fuel is only a part of the equation.

Gasoline engines DO NOT have the life-span of a diesel engine. My truck currently has 340k on the original engine (Cat) and I would expect to see at least 500k on this particular small diesel motor. I personally have seen Ford Power Stroke (International) 7.3 liter V8's go in excess of 750k. If properly cared for a light truck or medium duty truck diesel engine will outlast any light truck gasoline engine by 400% (my opinion).

You also need to factor in the transmission attached to either engine. Automatic transmissions behind diesel engines are engineered for a much higher torque rating and in general should prove to be more durable. Having said this, as a professional driver I loathe towing a heavy load with an automatic transmission. There's a reason you don't see too many of them on Class 8 trucks. It doesn't mean they won't work, it just means that when you break an auto you'd better have DEEP pockets.

It's all a matter of what best suits "Your" needs. Having a Medium Duty Truck can be a major pain when it comes to using it to run small errands. Having a Light Duty pick-up with a diesel engine can be a financial disaster if you mainly use it for short trips and a lot of starting and stopping. In these cases a gas engine would probably be better. But if you're going to use the truck for long trips where the engine gets started and not shut off for 12-14 hours at a stretch this is where the diesel engine shines. Diesel engines DO NOT like to be treated like gas engines when it comes to short trips and and run times.
Joe

2008 Victory Lane
1998 Freightliner FL50
Cody, WY when it's not covered in ice.

skirk55

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 07:27:42 PM »
My wife and I pulled our fifth wheel from pa to nc and back. My Dodge diesel  made the trip easy. Hills are easy now. Exaust brake a must. Truck stops for fuel is very nice to get in and out. Mileage much better than gas. Torque with a diesel is better than a gasser.

bailer6334

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 07:54:41 PM »
Either gas or diesel will work when the combined truck/trailer match is correct. Just as you are upgrading now most of us have upgraded several times(unfortunately) as our requirements have changed. Only you can evaluate which is the best truck for your needs. As most have suggested choose the trailer you want first. If you can get a accurate loaded weight that will drive the truck decision. As a general rule most use 20% of the trailers GVWR for payload info. This is for a 5th wheel only. Either way you go, highly recommend you look at a 3500 HD (1 ton).

FYI, I pull a 12K 5th wheel with my 2011 SRW 4X4 DMAX and with only 5800 miles on her, hand calculated I "average" 12.51MPG towing, in town empty 14.4MPG and hwy empty 18.6MPG. All in all I'm very happy with these numbers. While gassers may get better MPG in town and hwy, a diesel will generally out perform towing.
One other item I will mention is on new diesel trucks the "Exhaust Brakes" are outstanding. Especially the GM's.

Good luck on whatever you decide.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 09:13:49 PM »
Diesel fuel has about 15% more energy than gasoline, so any price difference that exceeds 15% means you are paying more per mile. Gas is running about $3.26 a gallon where I am today, so diesel could cost up to $3.75 and be cost effective.  Diesel prices are running from $3.60-$3.85 in the same area.

Efficiency - how much fuel is needed to move a given weight, is a different question. I'm not sure any fuel is inherently more efficient than another, but a diesel engine runs at much lower RPMS than gas for equivalent horsepower and torque and I think that would reduce power loss due to mechanical "slop" as well as reducing long term wear. The less things move, the less is lost to friction.
Gary
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

rvpuller

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2012, 09:24:03 AM »
The biggest problem with the average gas truck on the lot is it's set up with gears that belong in a low rpm diesel truck, gas and diesel motor are two different animals and they need to be geared differently to be a good pulling motor. Gas motors are higher rpm motors and need lower gears (higher numerical numbers) to keep the motor in its power range just like a diesel needs higher gears to keep it in its power range. You will also find that a gas motor with lower gears will get better millage pulling and empty (if you keep our speed down empty) than one with higher gears because the motor doesn't have to work as hard also the running gear like the transmission will last longer because of less stress. Class A motor homes don't have this problem because they come with the right gears from the factory unlike trucks that you have beg a dealer to order one geared the right way because they all believe that higher gears mean better mileage. You have to remember that the newer generation gas motor are made to run at higher rpms compared to older ones. I have to LOL when I here someone say they would never pull with a gas motor again but when you question them they had a gas motor with high gears so it had to work its butt off to pull their trailer but the diesel just cruises along with the same gears and rpm but the gas motor was not in its power band like the diesel. We started RVing in 1978 and every used truck we bought before we started buying new I had to change the rear end gears to make them pull the intended load also keep a eye on the tire size because bigger tires raise the final gearing where the rubber meets the road.

Denny

Denny   
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Wyotraveler

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2012, 01:31:02 PM »
You can't buy a V10 anymore so if you go with a gas engine it will be the small V8.

I bought the V10 because it was the 6.8L and gas was cheaper than diesel. Plus service was cheaper. My next vehicle is going to be a diesel because the little V8s don't pull mountain grades very well.
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jje1960

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2012, 05:05:57 PM »
No regrets here, love the diesel going up the grades with our unit.
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

nuffsaid

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 08:36:21 PM »
I have driven many different vehicles with both gas and diesel engines and came to the conclusion over 20 years ago that diesels are meant for towing. Does this mean that their overall operation will be cheaper? No, but the towing experience will be more enjoyable. With the new high power diesels, there is no comparision with the exception of tires. A gas engine vehicle will get more life out of it's tires because it doesn't have the torque to peel the rubber off like a diesel. As far as mileage goes, if you drive the same trailer at the same speed, the diesel will get a little better fuel ecomomy than the similar gasser, but add a head wind, or lots of hills and the diesel will greatly out pace the gasser. The other thing about the diesel is you will have the ability to easily maintain the posted speed limit which might not be so easy with the gasser. When the guys with the gassers say they get 10 mpg towing their big fiver, let's have them run it next to me towing my 5er. I will get an honest 10-11 mpg with a gvw from 20 to 26k I have yet to see a gasser that can match  this mileage with the same type load. I used to have a new Dodge 3500 with a V-10 and 5 speed. I towed a fairly heavily loaded  20ft enclosed trailer from Worland, Wy to Cheyenne, Wy about 400 miles. Between Casper and Cheyenne running down I 25, I got 3.8 miles per gallon. Nuff Said!
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Wyotraveler

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 09:57:11 AM »
No question about it, my 6.8L V10 won't do the job that my 7.2L diesel did, especially over the passes. I would have kept that diesel except it was 2WD. Didn't like walking a couple of miles up hill to our ranch in the winter time. LOL. 
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pricejh

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2012, 12:10:40 PM »
Well,  we purchased out trailer based on the theoretical towing capability of my old truck, a 2011 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner with the V-6 and an auto.  Bought the lightest 25 footer we could find with the amenities we wanted.   Thhe Onyx is abut 4,400 lb empty and can grodd out at around 6,000#.  After pulling the trailer a fairly short distance (about 50 miles) I decided that the little Toyo was just a little too little. 

I traided the Toyota on a Dodge 1500 with the 5.7L V8.  Yes, I would have liked a big diesel.  No, I'm not willing to spend my entire income paying to commute to work everyday.   I'm not planning on dragging it up over Berthod Pass nor any of the other 10K western passes.  Between Knoxville and Austin shouldn't put too much strain on the engine and SE flatlands and the hills in Appelachea shouldn't be too hard on the vehicle.  I hope. 
John Price
2011 Onyx 25RB
2011 Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi

Lowell

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2012, 01:05:44 PM »
So much of the decision depends on how one uses their truck and how often.  In 2005, I bought a new truck and TT.  Since then, less than 5% of the miles put on the truck have been used in towing the TT.  The rest of the the miles were put on the truck in both long distance travel and around town running.  For our use, the gas truck has been the right choice. It does a find job for us in the mountains out west, gets good milage towing (9-12mpg) and traveling w/o TT (19-22 mpg).  If we were to go to a larger RV, and full timing, a diesel would make sense.  It is very important when deciding on the RV type and/or tow vehicle how you are going to use it.  And from what I have read on this forum, a lot of folks change their mind after the first couple of years.

While we haven't changed our TT, I would now give up those bunk beds for a couple of Lazy Boy Chairs, so I guess I'm in the last category too. Grandkids grow too fast.
Lowell

2005 Cherokee28A TT
pulled by 2009 Dodge 1500 Crew Cab 4X4
KF7YET

Tempe, Arizona

mtfordguy

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 02:27:32 AM »
And even tho I am new here,, I will add my two cents. I have a 99 Dodge diesel  1 ton dually, and before I got it I pulled with a 3/4 ton single rear wheel, and I will have to say, I really like how stable a dually is when towing, altho it has to be a 4x4 cuz they dont get around very good when roads are slick.

fishinjim

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2012, 07:26:16 PM »
I towed a tt with a v8 explorer for a couple of summers. I didn't like it much. An under sized and under powered tv is no fun.
We now have a 30' fiver and I pull it with a '99 f350 drw v10 gasser. I'm loving it.
Went to disneyworld and the combo towed fantastic. Diesel would be nice but I couldn't pass up the truck I bought. It's a beauty and treated with tlc.

Too much truck is never a bad idea.


aterry

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2012, 08:33:45 AM »
Well I have a confession to make. I've been wanting a diesel for a long time and after reading this post I just couldn't take it any longer. I had a 2008 Chevy with the 6.0, I traded it for a 2009 Chevy with the 6.6 Duramax. I haven't pulled my trailer yet but I'm really anxious to. From what all of you say I should notice a huge difference. One thing I have noticed is how much better the gas mileage is. I was getting around 12mpg with my old truck with no trailer - this one easily hits 17-18mpg with no trailer. I even saw 20mpg once! So far I'm really impressed with a diesel overall. I wish I would have skipped the 6.0 engine and went straight for the diesel.....but hey, live and learn!
Andy
2011 Canyon Trail
2009 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
SW Missouri

jje1960

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2012, 12:38:46 PM »
Cool, congrats on the new truck!  Love the big diesel, wish the price of it would come down a bit around our home!
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2012, 07:24:36 PM »
Congrads... You won't be sorry... Diesel engines are the workhorse of trailers...  8)
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
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Phil Hyde

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 09:46:58 AM »
One great advantage of diesel fuel that hasn't been mentioned is the ability use an auxiliary fuel tank.  Deducts from payload capacity, but greatly extends range.
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aterry

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 02:31:13 PM »
One great advantage of diesel fuel that hasn't been mentioned is the ability use an auxiliary fuel tank.  Deducts from payload capacity, but greatly extends range.

Yeah, I have thought of that. That was a huge disadvantage when I had my gas truck. But with the better MPG out of the diesel I may not end up wanting it after all. Honestly after 300 miles or so I'm ready to get out and stretch my legs anyway.
Andy
2011 Canyon Trail
2009 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
SW Missouri

Foto-n-T

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2012, 08:03:45 AM »
It's not so much being ready to get out and stretch, the main advantage of an aux tank for us when we had the pick-up was being able to "shop" for fuel.
Joe

2008 Victory Lane
1998 Freightliner FL50
Cody, WY when it's not covered in ice.

kjansen

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2012, 08:25:32 AM »
I have the Duramax and I think you'll like it much better for pulling and will see fuel mileage in 10-12 range which is equal to or better than
your gasser pulling nothing.
Keven Jansen
'06 Chevy 2500 Duramax
'02 Montana Big Sky
Alexandria, Mn

Joezeppy

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2012, 10:52:09 AM »
I have the Duramax and I think you'll like it much better for pulling and will see fuel mileage in 10-12 range which is equal to or better than
your gasser pulling nothing
.

Is this just a guess or do you have some factual experience on a fleet of trucks to back this up? My 2002 Silverado 2500HD with 6.0 gasser averaged 12.5 non-towing MPG and my 2010 Sierra gets 13.5 - 14 depending on my mood.
Joe & Kim
Upstate NY - Kuyahoora Valley
2010 GMC Sierra 2500HD - 6.0L gasser
2017 Keystone Hideout 295BHS
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kjansen

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2012, 07:41:38 PM »
I could have stated that differently- the op said he was getting 12mpg with his gasser and I get 10-12 pulling my Montana.  Without the 5er I get 18-20mpg.
Keven Jansen
'06 Chevy 2500 Duramax
'02 Montana Big Sky
Alexandria, Mn

4x4fordoffroad

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2012, 11:53:23 AM »
buy a diesel.there really isnt a comparison when it comes to towing.sure you can pull a trailer with a gasser,but not to many of them talk about gas mileage.i pull 7500 tt and average 14 to 16 mpg all day long.thats a ford 350 7.3l.and i can tell you the power is always there when i need it.diesels are ,yes more expensive,and little more to maintain.you will need a one ton truck.unless your buying small 5er.they get quite heavy after the 30 foot mark.if you decide on gas ,fine thats what works for you.but you will end up paying more for fuel in the end.alot more.

longhaul

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2012, 08:51:04 PM »
You said your looking at a new 2500 GM truck.
 Just did a quick look on GM online ordering guide. http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2012&regionID=1&divisionID=1&type=0&vehicleID=11650&section=modeloptionweight&page=&butID=21.
 A 2500 6.0 LTZ extended cab long bed has a 3000 payload rating. Tow ratings are 9700 with the 3.73 axle and 14200 with the 4.10 axle.  I doubt you will like towing much over 10000 -11000 lb with the 6.0 smallblock in the mountains.

 Numbers for the same truck configuration and the Dmax LTZ 3.73 axle shows a 17400 lb tow rating and arounf 2700 lb payload.

 IMO with the big blocks all gone and your wanting to pull 10k-12k actual weight trailer I would go with the new or used 2500 Dmax.

 

RoyM

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2012, 09:17:32 PM »
I love our 05 Ram for towing, I fuel up once a day and it doesn't break a sweat on the hills. Not as much fun as a daily commuter, fuel economy is poor and it is a beast to deal with in traffic. I much prefer the old Ranger for this. For the amount of towing we do with the trailer we have an F-150/1500 with decent gears might have been a better choice at this time but I plan to retire in two years. If I have my way we will be on the road a lot, then the diesel really shines.
Ram 2500 diesel
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lone_star_dsl

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2012, 10:26:36 PM »
I figured I would throw some of my real world numbers out there for the diesel vs. gas conversation.  My business partner owns a 2003 Dodge 2500 with the V-10 engine.  Both of our trucks are very similar otherwise.  We keep a spreadsheet for our vehicle costs and both the gas and the diesel are within fractions of a penny per mile in regards to the actual operating cost.

His truck has averaged 9.1 mpg over the last 37,000 miles.  Mine has averaged 14.8 over the last 43,000 miles.  His fuel costs are lower but he gets worse mileage.  My fuel costs are higher but I get better mileage.  My diesel is only slightly more expensive to operate because of the higher maintenance and parts costs.  15 qts of oil in my Powerstroke versus 7 or so quarts for his, etc.

A few years ago we had the opportunity to do a towing test.  We both had identical trailers with identical loads on them.  We had about 25 miles of interstate to go and this particular section had a few good hills including Monument Hill.

He really got the jump on me coming off the start but when my turbo spooled up it was game over.  His truck managed to keep up just fine on the flatter sections but the diesel torque shined when we got to the hills.  We came to the conclusion that gas engines are great in the flatter sections of the country but out here in the mountainous west, diesels are the cats pajamas for towing.
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4x4fordoffroad

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2012, 07:20:12 AM »
so,have you decided what to buy yet?

CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2012, 09:59:23 AM »


His truck has averaged 9.1 mpg over the last 37,000 miles.  Mine has averaged 14.8 over the last 43,000 miles.  His fuel costs are lower but he gets worse mileage.  My fuel costs are higher but I get better mileage.  My diesel is only slightly more expensive to operate because of the higher maintenance and parts costs.  15 qts of oil in my Powerstroke versus 7 or so quarts for his, etc.



Would have been interesting if you also logged how much you paid for fuel to get a cost per mile figure.  Diesel fuel is more but in most cases it sounds like it might work out to being a lower cost per mile in the fuel department...maybe I have not tried to crunch numbers...but when it comes to maintenance it may even out.  Even if it doesnt even out at that point you still have the fact that it cost more for the diesel engine in the first place....so from a economics standpoint I can't see it working out for a diesel owner unless they have it for a very long time.  Most people just don't own a truck even close to long enough for it to make sense from an economical standpoint.

So for me I would not fool myself that I'm saving money with a diesel....if you want a diesel you should get it for the power and greater distances you can travel between fill ups.  To me that's what you have to be looking for for it to make sense.

I'd love a diesel but not only does it not make economic sense I don't even need the extra power at this point.  The distance I can travel between fill ups will be an issue but really stopping every 200 miles or so seems like good policy anyway.  I'd be lucky to make it 120 with the wife and two girls anyway.
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lone_star_dsl

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2012, 11:17:27 AM »
Would have been interesting if you also logged how much you paid for fuel to get a cost per mile figure.  Diesel fuel is more but in most cases it sounds like it might work out to being a lower cost per mile in the fuel department...maybe I have not tried to crunch numbers...but when it comes to maintenance it may even out.  Even if it doesnt even out at that point you still have the fact that it cost more for the diesel engine in the first place....so from a economics standpoint I can't see it working out for a diesel owner unless they have it for a very long time.  Most people just don't own a truck even close to long enough for it to make sense from an economical standpoint.

So for me I would not fool myself that I'm saving money with a diesel....if you want a diesel you should get it for the power and greater distances you can travel between fill ups.  To me that's what you have to be looking for for it to make sense.

I'd love a diesel but not only does it not make economic sense I don't even need the extra power at this point.  The distance I can travel between fill ups will be an issue but really stopping every 200 miles or so seems like good policy anyway.  I'd be lucky to make it 120 with the wife and two girls anyway.

This is the only flaw I see in your logic.  Yes, diesel engines are more expensive to purchase but they also get the majority of it back on resale.  But I will agree that diesel engines are no longer a money saving proposition like they were 10+ years ago.
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Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2012, 02:02:10 PM »
Quote
it cost more for the diesel engine in the first place....so from a economics standpoint I can't see it working out for a diesel owner unless they have it for a very long time.


10 years now and still rolling my diesel... Plan on owning it another 10 years at least. Yes every one is right about price and fuel mileage diesel will ALWAYS have better MPG number over the gasoline version. I run a ScanGauge II in both of my trucks and keep a full log of fuel mileage on both as well. My 96 Dodge 5.9L V8 only gets about 14-15 MPG empty ($3.279 Gasoline) compared to my 02 Dodge Ram 5.9L Cummins which pulls a easy 21-22 MPG empty ($4.229 Diesel).

Still in all the diesel can haul more cargo and the trailer without sweating at all... Even after crossing the scales at 16,080# last fall with the Jayco in Tow I still pulled off a 14.1 MPG for that trip. The gasser could even hold a candle to that kind of weight or MPG's...
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
2013 BigTex 70TV Utility Trailer

Trailer traveler

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2012, 04:19:44 PM »
gartash,

A couple of things that I do not think have been mentioned. With a 2500HD and a 5er you need to pay attention to the rear axle gross weight rating RAWR not just the vehicles GVWR, CVWR and max towing. There is a big difference in the RAWR of a dual wheel 3500 and a 2500. I don't think you can get dual rear wheels in a 2500 which also adds a lot of stability when towing. When I bought my 2008 Duramax there really was not that big a price difference between the 2500 and 3500. Also at that time, the only way to get the larger 34 gallon fuel tank was with the 8' bed as the tank is under the center of the bed. Another advantage of the diesels is the engine brake. Getting to the top of the hill is often the easy part. Getting down safely without burning up the brakes is the trickier part of mountain driving.

jje1960

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  • Jim
Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2012, 04:22:50 PM »
Not sure of Chevy, however Ford does not offer the DRW until the F350.  Ford does have a great website though, all spec's are available with easy reading.
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2012, 11:38:45 AM »
Lone Star...you are right about the resale being more but if it starts off costing more then it evens out...now if you are saying they depreciate less then that would be a factor...but I'm not sure it's as big of a factor as it might have once been.  With diesel fuel higher less people want to drive diesel so there is less demand meaning the depreciation will be higher.

Keep in mind I have a gas truck but I'm not anti diesel...hell i'd like one for the power and extra range....but I know I'd have to pay a premium for that and I really dont think it would work out financially better unless I'm like Mopar and keep a truck for 10 years.

I'm a fan of Ford F250s and over the last week I've been looking at Auto Trader for used ones in my area.  Honestly there has been no obvious glaring difference in price between gassers and diesels.  I'm not saying there isnt a difference but I have not seen trucks that were lower priced and it mean that they were automatically gassers.  Granted this is a small sample and only one model among dozens...as far as a Ford F250 if I did sell my Tundra and got one I'd only consider a diesel since the gasser F250 would not really be much of a step up in power from y Tundra.  But it's not going to happen because I just can't justify needing it at this point.
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Rancher Will

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2012, 05:07:26 PM »
In all of my life I don't recall ever talking to anyone who was sorry that they chose a diesel compared to a gas vehicle for towing. Since Dodge started putting Cummins Diesels in their truck I have never bought a gas truck for towing any of our trailers.

CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2012, 07:18:28 PM »
In all of my life I don't recall ever talking to anyone who was sorry that they chose a diesel compared to a gas vehicle for towing. Since Dodge started putting Cummins Diesels in their truck I have never bought a gas truck for towing any of our trailers.

I don't doubt it!
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dkperez

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #46 on: February 29, 2012, 08:43:08 AM »
The replies in this topic are all excellent, and I'd heed their advice.  I'll throw in an anecdote:

When we got our 5th wheel, a 25', 5400 lb dry weight Jayco with no slides, we bought a new Dodge 1/2 ton.  Ordered it SPECIFICALLY for towing.  2WD 'cause it had a higher tow rating, 360 with the 3.73, and so on.  On the flat's it was fine, although mileage, even with our small, low 5th wheel was often down in the 6mpg range.  You also had to take it out of OD any time there was even a slight uphill and stayed pretty much in the right lane at 65 mph or less.
First time in Colorado, we headed up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel, and quickly found ourselves in first gear, at 20-25 mph with foot to the floor.  It climbed, but it wasn't comfortable.  Over the 5 years we had the Dodge, the rear end was rebuilt, the engine had a number of problems, but the transmission survived (I was told we'd destroy the transmission first). At 105,000 miles, after getting the truck back from the 9th visit to the dealer for engine problems - this time they decided the heads were "bad" and replaced them (this was the ONE time I can ever remember the extended warranty being worth the cost!  It expired at 100K and we replaced the truck at 105), I replaced the Dodge with a 2005 Chevrolet Duramax. 

The difference is incredible.  On the flats, the trailer is invisible.  At 60mph we get 14mpg.  At 70 (a speed we never were able to drive with the Dodge) we get 10mpg.  My wife, who does the vast majority of the driving, is infinitely more comfortable and confident in the Duramax.  AND, on I-70 heading for the Eisenhower tunnel, we now easily run 55-60 mph and the truck doesn't even shift out of overdrive.

Yes, the diesel was more expensive.  And it probably isn't any cheaper to operate.  But the peace of mind is worth it to us.  We're at 150,000 miles, towed trailer approximately 40,000 miles with this truck, and we're now looking at going to a SLIGHTLY longer, slightly heavier 5th wheel that's nicer, and I'm not at all concerned about the tow vehicle's ability to handle the new trailer.

papachaz

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #47 on: February 29, 2012, 05:05:36 PM »
horse power is horse power. 300 gas or diesel is still 300.......BUT the difference is the torque! the diesel will give you so much more torque, and that is why it pulls so much better up the hills. 

as for the cost, well it does cost more to purchase. someone already put the percentage numbers to look at to see if a 'per mile' cost is real or not. as someone else mentioned, if you're of the mind you trade vehicles every couple of years, you won't recover the depreciation on either type engine, so it really doesn't matter. but if you're of the type who keeps a vehicle till you wear it out, then you better be happy with the diesel vehicle when you buy it, cause you'll have a hard time wearing it out! it will definitely last so much longer.

i even went with the diesel engine when i bought my lawn mower a few years ago. i haven't found tall enough thick enough grass to bog it down yet!
Chaz (DH) Jill (DW)
2013 Ameri-lite Ultralite 259 BH
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4WD

jje1960

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #48 on: February 29, 2012, 05:27:51 PM »
Sure do love the HP/Torque of the diesel.... Didn't however enjoy filling half a tank this past weekend for $77.00.... I remember paying like .56 for gas and if I remember right diesel being about .20 less than that.... Unbelievable...
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

papachaz

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #49 on: February 29, 2012, 05:50:47 PM »
no kiddin JJ! i remember getting mad and driving out of a gas station by the interstate once years ago because i thought they were price gouging just because they were by the interstate...at 72 cents per gallon!!!   :o

isn't diesel fuel a byproduct of producing gas??? i realize there's some additives, but tell me and make me believe that the oil companies don't know how much they're making off the trucking industries......
Chaz (DH) Jill (DW)
2013 Ameri-lite Ultralite 259 BH
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4WD

skellyjr

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #50 on: February 29, 2012, 07:29:58 PM »
diesel diesel diesel thats all i have to say both my trucks are 7.3l powerstrokes and i will never go back to a gasser

CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2012, 11:01:31 AM »
The replies in this topic are all excellent, and I'd heed their advice.  I'll throw in an anecdote:

When we got our 5th wheel, a 25', 5400 lb dry weight Jayco with no slides, we bought a new Dodge 1/2 ton.  Ordered it SPECIFICALLY for towing.  2WD 'cause it had a higher tow rating, 360 with the 3.73, and so on.  On the flat's it was fine, although mileage, even with our small, low 5th wheel was often down in the 6mpg range.  You also had to take it out of OD any time there was even a slight uphill and stayed pretty much in the right lane at 65 mph or less.
First time in Colorado, we headed up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel, and quickly found ourselves in first gear, at 20-25 mph with foot to the floor.  It climbed, but it wasn't comfortable.  Over the 5 years we had the Dodge, the rear end was rebuilt, the engine had a number of problems, but the transmission survived (I was told we'd destroy the transmission first). At 105,000 miles, after getting the truck back from the 9th visit to the dealer for engine problems - this time they decided the heads were "bad" and replaced them (this was the ONE time I can ever remember the extended warranty being worth the cost!  It expired at 100K and we replaced the truck at 105), I replaced the Dodge with a 2005 Chevrolet Duramax. 

The difference is incredible.  On the flats, the trailer is invisible.  At 60mph we get 14mpg.  At 70 (a speed we never were able to drive with the Dodge) we get 10mpg.  My wife, who does the vast majority of the driving, is infinitely more comfortable and confident in the Duramax.  AND, on I-70 heading for the Eisenhower tunnel, we now easily run 55-60 mph and the truck doesn't even shift out of overdrive.

Yes, the diesel was more expensive.  And it probably isn't any cheaper to operate.  But the peace of mind is worth it to us.  We're at 150,000 miles, towed trailer approximately 40,000 miles with this truck, and we're now looking at going to a SLIGHTLY longer, slightly heavier 5th wheel that's nicer, and I'm not at all concerned about the tow vehicle's ability to handle the new trailer.

Great story and glad things are working out.  I can't help but say this is kind of apples and oranges though...1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton right?  Also do you attribute all the breakdown problems to the Dodge to the towing or do you just think they are not as reliable?
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aterry

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2012, 03:38:01 PM »
When I originally posted on this topic I had a Chevy 2500 with the 6.0 gas engine - then I upgraded to a Chevy 2500 with the Duramax but I hadn't had a chance to pull my trailer yet. This past weekend I moved the camper up to the house to start getting it ready for next weekend and couldn't help but go ahead and take the trailer on the highway to see how the truck did. What a difference! There is absolutely no comparison between my old truck and this one. As long as I am pulling a trailer I will never go back to a gas engine. The hills that would normally slow me down didn't bother the diesel at all. I don't think the truck even knew there was a trailer behind it most of the time. I was a bit hesitant at first to spend that kind of money, but I'm really glad I spent the extra and moved up to a diesel.
Andy
2011 Canyon Trail
2009 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
SW Missouri

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2012, 09:48:23 AM »
horse power is horse power. 300 gas or diesel is still 300.......BUT the difference is the torque! the diesel will give you so much more torque, and that is why it pulls so much better up the hills. 

as for the cost, well it does cost more to purchase. someone already put the percentage numbers to look at to see if a 'per mile' cost is real or not. as someone else mentioned, if you're of the mind you trade vehicles every couple of years, you won't recover the depreciation on either type engine, so it really doesn't matter. but if you're of the type who keeps a vehicle till you wear it out, then you better be happy with the diesel vehicle when you buy it, cause you'll have a hard time wearing it out! it will definitely last so much longer.

i even went with the diesel engine when i bought my lawn mower a few years ago. i haven't found tall enough thick enough grass to bog it down yet!

Totally agree... But the difference between diesel torque and gasoline torque...

Gasoline engine create maximum torque at near red line on the tach.

Diesel starts creating torque at about 1,500 RPM and max troque at about 2K on the tach. So they are more suited to pulling over grades than a gasser.

Not to mention diesel engines will cover over 500K miles without thinking twice, where must gasoline engines need to be rebuilt at this point. Like I 've got a buddy down in Florida with a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 and has over 1.2 MILLION MILES. He got his money worth from it.

Like my truck my last time on the dyno I created 381 HP/ 831 TQ... (2007 Meridian Motorsports, ID) The peak of the 831 Ft/LBS was right at 2K on the tack after that point the torque curve starts to fall... Old saying... HP is how fast you'll make it to the wall... TQ is how far you'll drag the wall behind you...

No I'm not trying to only sell Dodge... I'm just happen to be very knowledgeable with Dodge products over Ford and Chevy... But any diesel engine is better than gas...  8)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 09:57:01 AM by Mopar1973Man »
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
2013 BigTex 70TV Utility Trailer

Marc L

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2012, 10:23:41 AM »
I don't know why we don't have smaller diesel powerplants for smaller trucks and cars.  A lot of the imports available as gas only here are available with a diesel powerplant in other parts of the world.  Seems that VW and Mercedes are the only 2 that offer small diesel power plants for their cars in North America.


Edit to add:  Actually, one of my friends had a 1984 Ford Ranger with a small diesel 4 banger.
Marc...

lone_star_dsl

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2012, 10:37:19 AM »
I don't know why we don't have smaller diesel powerplants for smaller trucks and cars.  A lot of the imports available as gas only here are available with a diesel powerplant in other parts of the world.  Seems that VW and Mercedes are the only 2 that offer small diesel power plants for their cars in North America.


Edit to add:  Actually, one of my friends had a 1984 Ford Ranger with a small diesel 4 banger.

Because the EPA doesn't want diesels to begin with.  They are going to make sure that as few of them are imported as possible and they are going to keep tightening emissions standards until the option of a diesel engine is too expensive for anyone to buy.
2007 KZ Sportsman 36SE3 Toy Hauler
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CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2012, 11:01:13 AM »
Well after reading all this I'm sold on the diesels.  My Tundra is fairly new(and I'll add...its an awesome truck) and we just got our first TT...that's only like 6300 gross so its easily handled but in the future I'd like to go ahead an step up to a 3/4 ton so can have the option of going bigger with a TT or 5er.  That will be a minimum of 2 years.  I'm working to pay off my 5 year loan in 2.5 years...which should be this summer hopefully...and when that's done I'll start making that same "payment" to myself.   Between savings and trade in I'm hoping to only need 10-20k financed and that's if I go new. 

My other consideration is getting one that will fit in my garage...my Tundra has about 5"s.  I actually remove my trailer hitch to park it.  Some of the Dodge 2500s look to be around the same length but the Ford F250s look longer....not sure about Chevy. 
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Marc L

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2012, 11:03:38 AM »
My other consideration is getting one that will fit in my garage...my Tundra has about 5"s.  I actually remove my trailer hitch to park it.  Some of the Dodge 2500s look to be around the same length but the Ford F250s look longer....not sure about Chevy. 
Depends on cab configuration and box length.  And all that can change in 2 years too.
Marc...

CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2012, 12:43:36 PM »
True...everything is always changing.  But you know I think when it's time I'm going to go with something used...so in two years when 2014s are out I'll be looking at 2010s to 2013s.  I'll probably go for something that has 50k miles or less...although sometimes you don't really save as much on that one year old vs a new because of all the incentives.
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jje1960

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2012, 01:07:36 PM »
Agree with buying used... Normally.  I've bought many vehicles (all gas) over the years used, saved a bunch, low mileage and great deal.  When I went to do the same after deciding we needed a big diesel, got quickly frustrated with finding a couple of year old vehicle with low mileage, the prices were almost the same as new!  This actually indicated to me that it was a solid investment to go with the diesel, they must hold their value for a reason.  Just one's perspective though.
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

Joezeppy

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2012, 02:53:03 PM »
My other consideration is getting one that will fit in my garage...my Tundra has about 5"s.  I actually remove my trailer hitch to park it.  Some of the Dodge 2500s look to be around the same length but the Ford F250s look longer....not sure about Chevy.

20'-9" for my GMC extended cab long box. Luckily my garage is 25' deep but the moldings around the door opening give me about 2" on each side and 2" above. I have to make sure there is no snow packed in the driveway and drive in & out reeeaaally slow!
Joe & Kim
Upstate NY - Kuyahoora Valley
2010 GMC Sierra 2500HD - 6.0L gasser
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CakeHenn

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2012, 03:33:38 PM »
According to the website my Tundra is 228.7"...so that's just over 19'.  I need to measure my garage but I'm betting it's 20' even based on how much room I have...maybe less.  Pretty funny how that's a factor for me. 
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jje1960

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2012, 03:43:47 PM »
Wish the 'Beast' fit in the garage.... Has to sit out in the weather next to the SRX...  >:(  O well, kids still get to fight over which one of their cars get to be in the garage.... that's always entertaining!
Jim
2011 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel
2011 Cougar SRX

Derby6

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2012, 04:08:38 PM »
Wish the 'Beast' fit in the garage.... Has to sit out in the weather next to the SRX...  >:(  O well, kids still get to fight over which one of their cars get to be in the garage.... that's always entertaining!

LMAO--I'd put my ATV or derby car in there, not my kids...your such a nice dad compared to me... ;D
2015 Ford Explorer (Wifes Ride)
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aterry

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2012, 09:10:48 AM »
I have a Chevy 2500 with the crew cab and I think it's close to 22ft long. I have about 2 inchs infront of the truck and a couple inches behind the truck. And, my antenna hits the top of the garage door on the way in! So I dont have much room at all!
Andy
2011 Canyon Trail
2009 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
SW Missouri

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2012, 03:04:26 PM »
20'-9" for my GMC extended cab long box. Luckily my garage is 25' deep but the moldings around the door opening give me about 2" on each side and 2" above. I have to make sure there is no snow packed in the driveway and drive in & out reeeaaally slow!

I just learned that leason with the canopy and the garage door...  :-[ I'm the same way tight fit in the garage. 
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
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ttyR2

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2012, 09:10:23 PM »
I upgraded from a '71 Ford F-250 v8/390 to a 2000 F-350 dually CC 4X4 diesel last summer and absolutely love it! We have an older Alpenlite 27 foot 5'er and the difference is like night and day. The old Ford actually did ok as far as handling and braking (with a good brake controller), but the engine just didn't have the stuff. I would have eventually killed the engine with how hard it was being pushed in the mountain roads around here.

My recommendation is to get a bit more truck than you think you'll need. You'll be happier. The diesel Ford gets literally twice the mileage of the older truck (12mpg vs. 6mpg) towing the exact same load, and at higher speeds on the hills and corners.
1988 Alpenlite DL 27' 5th wheel
Tow rig: 2000 Ford F-350, 7.3L, CC, LB, 4X4, ZF-6

dkperez

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2012, 07:15:29 PM »
On the dodge...  Actually I don't think a Dodge is any more or less reliable than any other truck...  Yeah, the rear end COULD have been from towing, although the 3.73 rear end should have been able to go forever. 

But, I attribute the engine problems to the dealers, not the manufacturer...  NINE visits, and every time they came up with something else...  First it was the "non-factory" spark plugs - which were actually an alternative recommended for towing.  Having them put in plugs cost $320, yes $320.  From that point on, EVERYTHING they did was on the extended warranty...  First they decided it was plug wires.  It wasn't then it was an injector.  It wasn't.  THEN it was an intake manifold gasket.  It wasn't.  Then it was just reprogramming the computer.  It wasn't.  and on and on....  FINALLY, they decided on of the heads had a "problem", which it may have or may not.  But, once it was changed, the light stayed off and a couple weeks later we dumped the truck. 

105,000 miles.  The bigger problems were that the thing had to be taken out of overdrive to tow, couldn't get past 65, and was dismal climbing hills like I-70 to the Eisenhower at higher altitude.

I'd buy a Dodge diesel or a Ford diesel or a Toyota diesel (if we had any) or a Nissan diesel (if there was a 3/4 ton).  Just happened to find a Chevrolet equipped the way I wanted when we needed one.

dkperez

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2012, 07:25:51 PM »
On the cost of fuel...  I must be really old compared to all you guys...  I can remember when gas was $.17/gallon.  The REALLY good stuff we used in the street drag car - Sunoco 260, was $.27/gallon......  And diesel was less - as I recall (which is always suspect), it was right around a NICKEL a gallon.  But that was back in the 60s when I started driving. 

We pick up the new 5th wheel Saturday morning.  After 12 years with the old one, my wife fell in love with one with a couple slides and a LITTLE more length.  Going from 26' actual to around 27' actual length, and it'll weigh in about a thousand pound more at 6700 dry, so it'll be interesting to see how it tows.

skirk55

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2012, 05:48:04 PM »
I love my diesel! I fill up at the truck stops. No gas stations. All summer we travle with the fifth wheel and air cond on all the time. The  brake is wonderful. Pulling power is very nice. The cost for oil filter and fuel filter is worth the added cost. Very nice transmission auto. ;D

MsgtRegester

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2014, 07:41:34 AM »
We just returned from a 3000 mile round trip to Rochester NY, Myrtle Beach and back to Atlanta Area.
We towed a 30 ft TT with our 2011 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi. We got about 10 MPG average and have a 26 gal tank.

We will be swapping the 1500 5.7 Hemi for a 2500 Cummins diesel before we do that again. for 3 general reasons and 1 that no one ever mentions.
1) The Hemi has enough power but @3000 to 5000 RPM
2) The new 2500 diesel Rams have an exhaust brake.  The Hemi provides some engine braking but nowhere near as good as diesel exhaust brake
3) The range between fill ups is horrible 200-230 miles which means more stops trying to find a station that  addresses the worst problem;

**** The biggest pain in the rear on the whole trip. and the one I never see mentioned ******
Getting to and from the gas pumps while towing is a pain in 99% of all gas stations we found on the road including some Pilot and Flying J stations.

We had little cars (Honda Civic, Mini etc.. ) box us into the pumps assuming we can maneuver as easily as they do. At one Pilot station in WV we had to wait 20 minutes while the little cars stacked up and left no room for anyone to get around them. 
The pumps have no room to turn while pulling 30 foot of trailer behind you.
The pumps are jammed so close you have to spend time trying to get close enough to fill up and or wait for an outside pump to open up.
The truck lanes in the rear didn't have gas, all they had was diesel.

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2014, 07:48:37 AM »
You'll find the Cummins producing it max torque at as low as 1,800 to 2,000 RPM and pull like a crazed mule. Yes it way nice to whip around the back and use the truck pump for diesel fuel less hassle for long RV's too. Still as much as people complain about diesel price being high you'll find the cost per mile for fuel in a diesel is lower than your hemi. I typically get 13-14 MPG in my old school Cummins. (But I'm no light weight @ 400 HP)  8)
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
2013 BigTex 70TV Utility Trailer

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2014, 09:22:58 AM »
Quote
The truck lanes in the rear didn't have gas, all they had was diesel.

Msgtregester: You probably won't be able to fuel your Ram diesel at the truck pumps because the truck pumps are all large diameter (high volume) nozzles and most pick-ups only have a small diameter filler port, probably the same skinny size as is used for gasoline.
Gary
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Ned

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2014, 09:40:22 AM »
One option is to use Flying J with RV islands.  They are easier to get in and out of than the car islands and have both gas and diesel.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
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buchanan

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2014, 03:28:14 PM »
Before buying ANY trucks, first you must decide how much trailer you are going for.  Gas motors are fine for towing up to about 10,000 pounds.  Anything over that get a diesel.  Also please forget a 2500 (3/4 ton) trucks.  You will run out of load capacity long before you get much trailer.  A fifth wheel will place approx 20% of it's loaded weight directly over the rear axle.  So even a 10K fifth wheel will put 2000 pounds on the truck.

I tell you I have towed 10000 lbs with chev 8.1 and ford v10 and they both suck power wise when it comes to large hills or mountain passes
I personally would not have anything but a 6.7 cummins or a chevy duramax.

meternerd

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2014, 04:28:57 PM »
DIESEL>>>DIESEL>>>DIESEL.  Ok, just my opinion, but had a 25 ft Class C with a 454 gas and slowed WAY down on hills, got about 10 mpg.  I sold it, bought a 2014 GMC 1 ton diesel with the tow package (exhaust brake, etc.).  I pull a 40 ft fifth wheel that's about 15,000 lb loaded.  Hills were never a problem.  I just got back from a 7000 mile trip and averaged 12.5 mpg.  Drove 60 mph (because the ST tires are only rated 65 mph max.).  No problems at all.  The new diesel (6.6L) that uses DEF allows the torque to be upped to over 800 ft lbs.  More than enough to pull a big trailer.

DavisK

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2014, 05:43:50 PM »
What about the price difference in gas vs diesel FUEL right now?  It's about .60 per gallon MORE for diesel fuel where I live.  Will the better fuel efficency with a diesel even this out?  Do you really get better with diesel?
Ford states on their web site that the F-150 EcoBoost specs are based upon using premium gasoline. Where I live, diesel costs less than premium gasoline.
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MsgtRegester

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2014, 06:37:02 AM »
Msgtregester: You probably won't be able to fuel your Ram diesel at the truck pumps because the truck pumps are all large diameter (high volume) nozzles and most pick-ups only have a small diameter filler port, probably the same skinny size as is used for gasoline.

Good to know, thanks.   

We are looking at the new V6 EcoDiesel. Evidently everyone else is too.  Dodge can't make them fast enough. Once GM and Ford offer something in the 1500's we may see some deals but it is a sellers market right now.

The RV lane we found at one Flying J was worse to maneuver thru than the car lanes because of the rest of the parking lot.   

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2014, 07:07:25 AM »
Yeah, the RV lanes at many Pilot/FJ's are highly congested because of adjacent car lanes and heavy entrance traffic. And many of the older stations are just plain small. We use the truck lanes instead for our motorhome.
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
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buchanan

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2014, 07:55:21 AM »
the only bad thing I find about the large high volumn nozzles is you get serious foaming when filling the MH

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2014, 08:05:18 AM »
Msgtregester: You probably won't be able to fuel your Ram diesel at the truck pumps because the truck pumps are all large diameter (high volume) nozzles and most pick-ups only have a small diameter filler port, probably the same skinny size as is used for gasoline.

Just for a point of reference. My older 2002 will accept a high volume diesel pump. As for the newer trucks I can't answer that...
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
2013 BigTex 70TV Utility Trailer

RVRAC

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2014, 01:45:28 PM »
Well, I would prefer to have a diesel truck.  However, there are situations when you cannot or should not get it. In my case, I bought a gas after considering the following: 1) my DW hates the noise of a diesel truck, and told me not to get it; 2) as she said, if you can pull it with a gas one, I want a gas one; 3) the difference on price was about $8,000 for the engine and transmission, hard sell to her; 4) I have read that short drives kill diesel engines and most of my driving is 10-15 miles these days as I am retired; 5) I read that to make it worth it financially, those who make studies on this matter say you need to drive over 10,000 miles a year and I do 7,000; 6) the 2014 Chevy 6.2l can run without problems on E-85, which where I live is $1.00/ gallon less than a diesel; and I use it when not pulling the fifth wheel; this is a huge difference; 7) we do not travel towards the Rockies pulling the fifth wheel; and when we do it every five years or so we do not pull  a trailer and 8) the insurance premium was going to be higher on the diesel one, as it was going to be more expensive and heavier.  With all this information, there was no way I could convince my DW.  So, I got a gas and works fine, but I would love to have a diesel.
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Derby6

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #82 on: July 25, 2014, 01:50:35 PM »
Just for a point of reference. My older 2002 will accept a high volume diesel pump. As for the newer trucks I can't answer that...
My 2011 will too.  I'm sure its no different that my old '97; high volume pump will fit and work but its a little bit of a pain as you can't hold it wide open like a regular pump....lol
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Stewie Griffin

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2014, 10:09:59 AM »
All diesel equipped trucks have the bigger fuel inlet hole that accepts the high pressure pump nozzles. I always fill up my trucks with high pressure pumps when I can.
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kevin

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2014, 11:42:43 AM »
I feel this is no different than the mh question. who cares if you never recoop your money on the diesel, you will enjoy pulling whatever you pull more, and that is what it's all about right, enjoying your time while camping,rving, whatever you do.

I have a 2010 ram35004x4, I pull a 32' load trail trailer with hydra dove tail. I haul 22 round bales that way around 1000 to 1200lbs, yes it "knows" its back there, but pulls great. mileage with this truck....10mpg, loaded or empty.

I used to use a 2004 gm2500hd with 6.0, pulling a 24' load boss trailer, with 14bales. yes it diff "knew" it was back there, and pulled it....well lets say it got the job done. mileage with this truck.....14mpg, loaded or empty.

would I ever go back....not a snowballs chance in you "know" where...jm2c
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buchanan

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2014, 12:36:21 PM »
I feel this is no different than the mh question. who cares if you never recoop your money on the diesel, you will enjoy pulling whatever you pull more, and that is what it's all about right, enjoying your time while camping,rving, whatever you do.

I have a 2010 ram35004x4, I pull a 32' load trail trailer with hydra dove tail. I haul 22 round bales that way around 1000 to 1200lbs, yes it "knows" its back there, but pulls great. mileage with this truck....10mpg, loaded or empty.

I used to use a 2004 gm2500hd with 6.0, pulling a 24' load boss trailer, with 14bales. yes it diff "knew" it was back there, and pulled it....well lets say it got the job done. mileage with this truck.....14mpg, loaded or empty.

would I ever go back....not a snowballs chance in you "know" where...jm2c
you hauled 20000 lbs(bails and trailer) and got 14MPG with a chev 6.0 gasser?

kevin

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2014, 01:48:45 PM »
yes somewhere around that wait, it has never gotten any worse, nor any better. some of the bales weighed more depending on if they were alittle green or not.
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buchanan

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2014, 02:09:13 PM »
yes somewhere around that wait, it has never gotten any worse, nor any better. some of the bales weighed more depending on if they were alittle green or not.
My 2002 6.0 2500 4x4 got 14  just driving it around empty

kevin

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2014, 02:16:01 PM »
what I was saying is that either way it got 14, loaded or empty, never any better period. and it pulled alright, just that the dodge does it way better, way more quiet, and a lot more secure.
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buchanan

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2014, 02:30:53 PM »
what I was saying is that either way it got 14, loaded or empty, never any better period. and it pulled alright, just that the dodge does it way better, way more quiet, and a lot more secure.
understood its just unlikely and unusual a 6.0 l GMM truck gets 14 MPG loaded with 20000 lbs and the same as a empty truck. Never personally seen that or heard of such a fuel mileage situation that's why I asked. no big deal just strikes me odd is all

grassy

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2014, 07:35:25 PM »
Interesting conversation.

A bike shop that we know (that ran a MX team) dumped their tundras due to excessive gas consumption.

Gas is regulated around here so if you buy from one station in town A, all the other garage stations will have the same price. This tip is good to know.  Our gas is presently 6.75 gal for low test.

Are there any Canadians lurking ? I know that there is a big price differential between my home province and the states..I was wondering if the same can be said about diesel trucks ?  How do I find the prices of trucks (lets say ohio) without calling a dealer ?

I am getting 10 mph towing a 6K pound trailer(we are a province with lots of hills)

Has anyone looked at the ram 1500 deseil for pulling TTs...I hear this RAM will get 19mpg with a 6K TT ..is this hocus pokus ?

I want diesel but convincing the wife is another...

Ian.

2001 Freightliner FL60 Sport Chassis, 3126b, Jake, Air... Brakes, Cab & Rear Suspension, Ultra Shift
2010 Northwood Arctic Fox 29-5T (Silver Fox Edition)

Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2014, 09:53:37 PM »
Quote
Has anyone looked at the ram 1500 deseil for pulling TTs...I hear this RAM will get 19mpg with a 6K TT ..is this hocus pokus ?

 ::) I think that a bit of a high number. I think like all vehicles you'll drop down to low teens (10-14 MPG). But I've not experienced a 1500 Dodge diesel yet either. But I would still have a hard time even considering towing with a 1500 series truck of a trailer longer than about 20-25 foot. Not so much the weight but the length.
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
2013 BigTex 70TV Utility Trailer

kevin

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2014, 10:43:10 AM »
understood its just unlikely and unusual a 6.0 l GMM truck gets 14 MPG loaded with 20000 lbs and the same as a empty truck. Never personally seen that or heard of such a fuel mileage situation that's why I asked. no big deal just strikes me odd is all
trust me you are not the only one who found it odd. it was my dad's truck, and his friend bought the same truck with the same gears, and got 16 to 17 empty, and 11 pulling his 5vr, not sure the size and weight. this year also has should I say some electrical glitches...4x4 lights go out, heat and air goes in and out, hot when on cold. the worst is if it sets for a couple of day's and you start it up put it in gear, it just sets. acts like it is low on trans fluid. had it at the dealer, and no answer's, been doing it since he bought it new in 2004.

Staff edit: Fix broken close quote tag
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 11:05:30 AM by Ned »
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grassy

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2014, 02:57:22 PM »
I have now surrounded myself with all the dodge truck info...RAM 1500/2500/3500.

Is there any reason I would need a 4*4 if I am going to be in the southern states in the winter ?  Better mileage and higher payload if I stick with a 4*2.

Here is the article that I referenced earlier:

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/dodge/1403_2014_ram_1500_ecodiesel_vs_2500_sibling_rivalry/

Summary:

Final Thoughts
After our time with the trucks was up, we came to a not-so-shocking conclusion: both are excellent vehicles in their own right. The new Ram 1500 with the EcoDiesel engine is a game-changer. We’re confident that in the right conditions it can break 30 mpg on the highway, and 20 mpg towing. Short of pulling up in front of the pump to be refueled, one would be hard pressed to tell there is a diesel engine under the hood.

As for the new chassis and suspension under the Ram 2500, we were simply amazed. Highway ride is vastly improved over previous generations, and we noticed no negative affect on its towing ability. Add to that legendary Cummins power that never ceases to impress, and you have one hell of a ¾-ton platform to tow and haul with.

Ultimately, the decision of which truck is the right choice comes down to towing. For the person who commutes in his truck and only tows his toys or who’s trailer weights are at the lighter end of the spectrum, the Ram 1500 is a superb option. If the trailer weight tops 9,000 pounds, or your frequency of hitching up is more often, then the Ram 2500 is the truck of choice. Either way, neither truck will disappoint.




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patdrury

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2014, 07:36:15 PM »
I have been looking at the Ram 2500 6.4 and the 2500 diesel.  I would love to get the diesel but the payload drops from around 3200 # to 2300 #.  This is for the Ram 2500 4 x4 crew cab. 

The payload of the diesel is fine with my current 7500 # TT but I want the option of trading up someday to a 5th wheeler.  The 2300# payload of the diesel scares me. 

If I go with diesel I may opt up to the 3500.  Any thoughts?
Pat Drury Ram 1500 Freedom Express 322RLDS

pz

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2014, 02:14:43 AM »
I've been using Cummins Diesels since 1996 starting out with the old reliable 2500 12-valve B5.9 at 215 hp and 440 lb-ft torque.  In 2011 we purchased a Rockwood Ultralight at 7900 pounds dry - the 12-valve pulled it, but had to work to get up the 6-7% grades.  I loved that old truck and used it until 2012 when I gave it to my son.  He used it for a while and then sold it for $13,500 - the value of the Diesels remain relatively high

In 2012 we purchased a 3500 ISB 6.7 rated at 385 hp and 850 lb-ft torque.  Grades that formerly gave me problems I can now accelerate up in the 3500.  I hook up the fiver and  the tail hardly goes down with the added weight - giving me a great sense of security that I have plenty of truck.

Having experience with both, I'd definitely spring for the 3500 because that Diesel will last for many, many years, and it is just nice to know that you have the load capacity when you need it.  Other nice features of the new Rams are an intelligent exhaust brake, a tow haul mode in combination with the 6-speed auto makes any  grade effortless.

My dad always said, buy once, but buy well.
PZ
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2012 Ram 3500 6.7L Cummins

RVRAC

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2014, 10:39:52 AM »
Pat wrote:

I have been looking at the Ram 2500 6.4 and the 2500 diesel.  I would love to get the diesel but the payload drops from around 3200 # to 2300 #.  This is for the Ram 2500 4 x4 crew cab.


This is the same reason I did not buy a 2014 RAM 2500 diesel.  It has the lowest payload of 2500 diesels.  Check the manufacturers' web pages and you will see.  I don't know why is this the case because they have the best engine.
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BobX2

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2014, 05:08:07 PM »
Pat wrote:

I have been looking at the Ram 2500 6.4 and the 2500 diesel.  I would love to get the diesel but the payload drops from around 3200 # to 2300 #.  This is for the Ram 2500 4 x4 crew cab.


This is the same reason I did not buy a 2014 RAM 2500 diesel.  It has the lowest payload of 2500 diesels.  Check the manufacturers' web pages and you will see.  I don't know why is this the case because they have the best engine.
It is because of the extra weight of the diesel engine being added to the gross weight of the truck. They are heavy beasts.
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RVRAC

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #98 on: July 30, 2014, 10:53:35 PM »
Yeah, but 2300#does not give you a lot of space for the pin weight. It may be because of the back suspension.  The 3500 Ram has leaf springs, the 2500 does not.
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Frizlefrak

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #99 on: July 31, 2014, 12:29:49 AM »
We bought a 2014 Ram 2500 crew cab Cummins in January.  I pull an 8000 lbs travel trailer in high elevations (10K' +) and lots of steep grades.  The Cummins is a beast....800 lb ft of torque is a beautiful thing, and I get about 13-14 mpg towing and close to 20 empty.

If you tow in low elevations on relatively flat lands, a gas truck will save you a bundle over the cost of a diesel and should do the job just fine.  If you tow heavy stuff out here in the high country, a diesel is a no brainer.
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Frizlefrak

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2014, 12:31:30 AM »
And yes, the new Ram 2500 has coils in the rear, and yes it's a heavy mutha.  7800 lbs of truck.  The 2WD version gets you more payload, as does regular cab.....or if you need that much payload, just step up to a 3500.

One nice thing about all the weight that I've noticed.....crosswinds don't even register with me until they hit 25-30 mph now.  Crosswinds use to walk my old truck. 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 12:33:01 AM by Frizlefrak »
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RVRAC

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2014, 01:07:26 PM »
The RAM engine are the best.  However, the question was about moving from at TT to a fifth wheel.  With that move, the person asking the question must keep in mind pin weight.  Because of this we need to point out that the 2500 RAM diesel has a lower payload according to the manufacturer.  Then the alternative is moving to a 3500 RAM or another brand 2500.  Just what the data shows.
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2014, 10:03:31 AM »
I have 2013 gmc duramax Allison combo 3500 hd single rear axle. Pulls my 2013 279rks cougar 5 er great. Just did 2000 mile 2 week trip averaged 16 mpg through many many passesnd flats. Has exhaust break and use a curt q20 hitch. Dream setup. The diesel will pay for itself pretty quickly on fuel mileage and ease of towing. ALWAYS plenty of power. 600 mile range w/o trailer. 36 gallon tank so worrying about finding a fuel station not an issue. Rated to tow 23000 lb 5th wheel. Mine is around 9000 or 10000 loaded so it's not quite half my max making everything a breeze. Hesitated on the diesel at first but decided to go that route. I'm told the truck can go 500,000 or more miles if properly serviced and not chipped up. Sounds good to me. Good luck. You get what you pay for :)

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2014, 01:48:24 PM »
yes the new duramax is the very best diesel truck to tow with for sure. They do cost about 5K more than a dodge though  but no doubt the king of diesels these days

jje1960

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #104 on: August 03, 2014, 03:53:43 PM »
Another 1000mi summer vacation trip completed, as expected, great performance with our 6.7 Power Stroke!  The beast has 35K miles on it now, what a dream to drive with the Toy Hauler carrying our golf cart!  Ford's move to making their own motors paid off, very happy with our 2011 Diesel.  Over-all mileage was between 11-12MPG!!!!
Jim
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2014, 01:35:10 PM »
So, with the larger payload, why go 4*4 if you are only pulling where there is no snow.... ?

Can you add the second set of rims on the 2500 ?  I know it isn't an "official" option from RAM but is it do able ?

I have had stellar experience with my RAMs so I don't want to move...

We are starting out (I think) with a TT but may move to a 5th.... TTs give you more space per foot and if the weather is crappy, I see me setting off into it anyway...
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2014, 01:38:20 PM »
So, with the larger payload, why go 4*4 if you are only pulling where there is no snow.... ?

Can you add the second set of rims on the 2500 ?  I know it isn't an "official" option from RAM but is it do able ?

I have had stellar experience with my RAMs so I don't want to move...

We are starting out (I think) with a TT but may move to a 5th.... TTs give you more space per foot and if the weather is crappy, I see me setting off into it anyway...
just buy the 3500 series if you want duals. 4x4 is not needed in most cases I see for sure

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2014, 03:14:41 PM »
We've used our 4X4 a number of times, snow as well as wet grass with incline while hitched to our 5Ver.
Jim
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2014, 03:57:00 PM »
When I go to back my RV into it's cubby next to the house, I have to SLOWLY back the right front wheel over the curb....there is no other way around it.  In 2WD, the Cummins basically just tries to roast the rear tires.  I have to shift it into 4WD to climb the curb.  I could get out and throw a piece of lumber down, but just turning the knob makes life so much easier.

There are a couple of campgrounds we go to where the best spots require 4X4 to get the trailer in.  I did it once with my old 2WD pickup....never again.  I got VERY close to a tree coming out, and the space was gravel....truck was not going to back up uphill on gravel.  I got it out in one piece....with less than 2" to spare from taking off the side of my trailer.  The 4X4 truck puts the trailer any damn place I want it.
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2014, 04:23:00 PM »
When I go to back my RV into it's cubby next to the house, I have to SLOWLY back the right front wheel over the curb....there is no other way around it.  In 2WD, the Cummins basically just tries to roast the rear tires.  I have to shift it into 4WD to climb the curb.  I could get out and throw a piece of lumber down, but just turning the knob makes life so much easier.

There are a couple of campgrounds we go to where the best spots require 4X4 to get the trailer in.  I did it once with my old 2WD pickup....never again.  I got VERY close to a tree coming out, and the space was gravel....truck was not going to back up uphill on gravel.  I got it out in one piece....with less than 2" to spare from taking off the side of my trailer.  The 4X4 truck puts the trailer any damn place I want it.
Not to mention the ability to put it in low range for slow speed maneuvering. So nice to be able to do what is needed with very little throttle input. Countless times I have seen people trying to back uphill into a site with the rear tires spinning and revving the engine. With 4x4 and low range, you can just walk it right in.
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2014, 04:30:05 PM »
Not to mention the ability to put it in low range for slow speed maneuvering. So nice to be able to do what is needed with very little throttle input. Countless times I have seen people trying to back uphill into a site with the rear tires spinning and revving the engine. With 4x4 and low range, you can just walk it right in.

that,s one a I agree with  but  spending the extra 4K or so for the 4x4 option is a waste of money unless you plan on getting yourself in these mostly preventable situations

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2014, 06:27:41 PM »
But really something to think about.  Thanks !
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2014, 07:03:23 PM »
that,s one a I agree with  but  spending the extra 4K or so for the 4x4 option is a waste of money unless you plan on getting yourself in these mostly preventable situations

Yeah, but it's my money, I gave up a lot of myself and my youth earning it, and I'll waste it as I see fit....besides, I ain't gonna live forever, and I ain't leavin' it to anyone else. 

The spot in the campground that's tough to get into is on a hillside and has a magnificent view.  After we unhook, wifey and I like to go "canyon carving" up on logging roads and into very remote areas I don't really feel like walking back out of.  2WD ain't gonna cut it.....hell, 4WD barely cuts it in some of these places.  But oh, the scenery.....

And it does snow up in the high country....sometimes when you're not expecting it.

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buchanan

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #113 on: August 05, 2014, 08:01:22 PM »
Yeah, but it's my money, I gave up a lot of myself and my youth earning it, and I'll waste it as I see fit....besides, I ain't gonna live forever, and I ain't leavin' it to anyone else. 

The spot in the campground that's tough to get into is on a hillside and has a magnificent view.  After we unhook, wifey and I like to go "canyon carving" up on logging roads and into very remote areas I don't really feel like walking back out of.  2WD ain't gonna cut it.....hell, 4WD barely cuts it in some of these places.  But oh, the scenery.....

And it does snow up in the high country....sometimes when you're not expecting it.
Yes Yes I totally agree you need a $x4 but the next hundred don't that's all I was saying to each their own. what works for one don't work always the same way for another
My truck is 4x4 and I have always owned and driven a 4x4.its kind of a way of life up here in BC.2wheel drives are rarer than hens teeth

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2014, 09:39:59 PM »
that,s one a I agree with  but  spending the extra 4K or so for the 4x4 option is a waste of money unless you plan on getting yourself in these mostly preventable situations
do you every really plan on getting yourself into situations? if you never take your truck off concrete or pavement, never drive in snow, or ice. then by all means save your money. other wise the extra whatever  you spend will be a waste...well until you resale it, then you get it back.
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #115 on: August 06, 2014, 04:39:38 PM »
Just went from gasser to oil burner... and I won't be going back... The diesel is so much more powerful and I'm getting better mileage towing and not towing...
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2014, 04:40:30 AM »
that,s one a I agree with  but  spending the extra 4K or so for the 4x4 option is a waste of money unless you plan on getting yourself in these mostly preventable situations

in the north East with snow it is either 4 x4 or walking in the winter
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2015, 06:23:06 PM »
I'm thinking of purchasing an Open Range 397FBS RV. The hitch weight is 2,590 lb. and the axle weight is 10,375 lbs. I would prefer to stay with a gas engine. Thinking of Chevy 2500 or 3500 four door, long bed,  4x4 with 4:10 rear axle and 6 liter engine. All the weight numbers have me puzzled. Is this truck capable of towing this type of trailer safely? I now have a 6 liter gas 3/4 ton 4x4 crew cab with two rating of 9,500 lbs. I tow an Open Range JT287RLS with 4259 GVWR. I will consider Ford or RAM pickups if they are capable. Any advise will be appreciated.

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2015, 10:47:01 PM »
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
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Rob VanVoorhis

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2015, 10:35:41 PM »
What about maintenance costs related to diesel vs gas especially if your out of warranty? Oil changes 13/15 quarts, what if you blow a turbo? I don't know the answer to this question but I'd like to know what the general consensus is?
Rob VanVoorhis
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #120 on: March 14, 2015, 09:22:53 AM »
Warranty I've been out of warranty since 48K miles when I gave the dealer my notice and told them I'll fix it myself.

Oil changes. You got to remember its a diesel and it does holds about 3 gallons of oil so it go much farther between oil changes like I do 10k between oil changes.  Book states 7.5k miles. I buy all oil in bulk 5 gallon buckets which is much cheaper than the the standard gallon jug. Like my truck is offroad more often so I went with a Frantz Bypass oil filter and capable of extending oil changes now. Just a picture of my 400HP Cummins...  ;)
http://i60.tinypic.com/2626sxu.jpg

If you blow a turbo its because you never installed a pyrometer to monitor exhaust temps and cool the turbo down properly.
http://i60.tinypic.com/es9ieu.jpg

Here is what 2001 Dodge Cummins can do in about 5 years with 20k miles oil changes hauling boats for a living.
http://i55.tinypic.com/20ggyva.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/o0pbw6.jpg
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2015, 09:40:48 AM »
there are pros and cons to each gas and diesel - gas trucks are cheaper to buy, feul is cheaper right now etc etc etc - but i think what it really boils down to is the following - and i have both a gas for pulling the boat and a diesel for the trailer
- do you really need a diesel - if your not pulling a heavy load or a lot of the time - then gas is good

but

- a diesel is really nice to have, if - you have a heavy trailer and or mountains like we have the Rockies

cost is really irrelevant in that, its based upon what you need and what you want - honestly do you need a $500000 sports car that does 200 mph -no but sure it would be nice to have

in my case my trailer is 14000 - 15000 lbs loaded we live near the mountains and end up driving through them about 75% of the time we pull the trailer. Could i get away with a gas job - YES but i really like having all that the diesel offers - therefore cost becomes irrelevant. i bought my truck knowing in 2013  i was going to get a new trailer .
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Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #122 on: March 14, 2015, 09:57:47 AM »
Just because diesel fuel is higher in price doesn't mean that diesel trucks are higher in operating cost. That's a myth.  ::)

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 10:01:21 AM by Mopar1973Man »
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #123 on: March 14, 2015, 10:00:55 AM »
I don't think maintenance of a diesel in a light duty truck is a major factor, but I haven't owned one since 1999 either.  In the big picture, does an extra gallon or two of oil per change make much difference?  Maybe once every 6-9 months for most owners?  Now if we were talking the 7 gallons that my big Cummins ISL needs, plus a $65 oil filter, the extra maybe begins to be meaningful, but I only do that once a year.
 
And I do mean "maintenance" as opposed to "repairs", since diesel engine repairs, if needed, can be very costly. Fuel injector replacement seemed to be a costly issue for awhile in the early 2000's, for example. Don't hear much about that lately, though.

As for fuel, you need to consider cost per mile, not per gallon. Still, I think that diesel fuel comes out either equal or only slightly more expensive
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Mopar1973Man

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #124 on: March 14, 2015, 10:03:53 AM »
Sorry to say but I've got connection in the Cummins world so my last upgrade to the injectors was +50HP injector for a mere $450 bucks. I know the newer Common rai linjectors are out of sight for prices some are going as high as $900 per injector. One of the small reasons I'm hanging back in the 2002 Cummins yet..  :o
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
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Frizlefrak

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2015, 01:19:17 PM »
Sorry to say but I've got connection in the Cummins world so my last upgrade to the injectors was +50HP injector for a mere $450 bucks. I know the newer Common rai linjectors are out of sight for prices some are going as high as $900 per injector. One of the small reasons I'm hanging back in the 2002 Cummins yet..  :o

I love my Cummins, but the day it breaks warranty, it gets traded in.
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telcoman

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #126 on: April 07, 2015, 09:31:42 AM »
I am in a real quandary. I currently have 2004 duramax that just had its 4th set of injectors installed in 120,00 miles. I even installed a double filtration lift pump after the last set and they lasted only 12k. At $5000 a shot this truck is becoming way too expensive to  maintain. I spend winters in Mexico (leading RV Caravans) and they do not import diesel pickups down there so getting one worked on is hit & miss. They also do not have ULSD, so anything i replace it with has to be pre 2007. Gas is suddenly looking better. I tow a 5500 lb dry trailer, I suspect I am close to 7500 ibs loaded.
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Tinmania

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #127 on: April 07, 2015, 10:20:26 AM »
One big, and for me unexpected as to the degree, difference I noticed in going from gas to diesel was engine braking going down steep grades.

One place we go to a lot for weekends here in AZ when it is over 110 degrees in the shade is up to the mountains (or even in the winter to camp with snow around us). The closest place that is cool near us is Hualapai Mountain park south of Kingman, AZ. It was always a bit stressful coming down that mountain in my gasser (F250). Once I had accidently turned the brake controller down to almost nothing and it got scary as the TV brakes faded extremely. Had to manually use the trailer brakes to keep things under control (plus lower gear of course). Can't imagine how it would have turned out with no brake controller at all.

With my Diesel F350, in tow haul mode, I rarely have to touch the brakes down that same mountain.




Michael

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #128 on: April 09, 2015, 10:41:57 PM »
I am in a real quandary. I currently have 2004 duramax that just had its 4th set of injectors installed in 120,00 miles. I even installed a double filtration lift pump after the last set and they lasted only 12k. At $5000 a shot this truck is becoming way too expensive to  maintain. I spend winters in Mexico (leading RV Caravans) and they do not import diesel pickups down there so getting one worked on is hit & miss. They also do not have ULSD, so anything i replace it with has to be pre 2007. Gas is suddenly looking better. I tow a 5500 lb dry trailer, I suspect I am close to 7500 ibs loaded.

One reason I'm holding on to my old 2002 Dodge Diesel because the failures you have with Common Rail Injectors doesn't exist on the older diesel engines. Like myself I only pay $400 for a set of 6 injectors vs $5000 for common rail injectors. Having newer vehicles doesn't mean better.  ::) Like my truck it produces the same power as most of the newer truck today.
Mopar1973Man (AKA: Michael Nelson) located out in the state of Idaho with...
2002 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel
2000 Jayco Eagle FBS 296
2013 BigTex 70TV Utility Trailer

Diesel with All wheel drive for towing
« Reply #129 on: July 24, 2017, 07:48:47 PM »
I need advice - first time using this forum.
What are your views on my using my BMW X5 with twin turbo diesel and all wheel drive for pulling a travel trailer weighing 4200 pounds dry? I get 25 mpg on the highway. We plan on doing a big trip in our 22 ft long trailer around this great nation next year.
Second question. Do you have any guidance about planning for the trip? We're thinking of taking about six months.
Just my wife and I, both about to retire.
thanks

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Re: Gas vs Diesel for towing vehicle
« Reply #130 on: July 25, 2017, 05:58:29 AM »
Tom,
You would probably get more responses by starting your own thread. Maybe a Moderator will split this off.
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