Class A or C with two kids?

Hello all, I am so glad to have found this forum. I am very new to all of this and a bit overwhelmed so please forgive me if I am asking very obvious questions.

Our family is currently renting a house and have been selling our things and preparing for full timing. I must start by saying that we don't have much money and  this is the only way we can think of pulling ourselves out of this renting situation and some day own our own land and build our own home.

My questions are for those of you who full time with children. We've decided that a MH is what we want so we don't have to buy a truck and for easy up and go. We don't plan on traveling far but intend to stay in town or surrounding areas camping. My hubby will continue working full time at his job and I will be with the kids during the day. There aren't many rv parks around here, and the two parks we called are all filled up. Otherwise we'd probably go with a 5th wheel and park it for a while.

We have only a few thousand to spend ($6-7,000)and are looking for our new home on craigslist. Obviously, for that price we aren't going to be in something amazing and luxurious! I don't mind doing some small fixing up but would like everything to work and be safe for my two kids.

I am wondering for those of you who have already done it....would a class A or class C fit the needs of a family of four better? What kind of features would you suggest looking for in a MH if we are going to have our children with us (btw we have a 6mo and a 2 1/2 yr old). Have any fulltimers with children ever cloth diapered? Would it be worth it to cram a W/D in there or just drive to laundry mats?

I feel like I am running into so many walls and obstacles. I realize we are very limited bc of the limited money we have to offer but what would you look for/steer clear from when buying an older MH? We have a friend trying to sell us a 76 winnebago brave for $2000 and am afraid that we will just be inheriting all kinds of problems.

Any suggestions or comments would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

imkidarose said:

My questions are for those of you who full time with children. We've decided that a MH is what we want so we don't have to buy a truck and for easy up and go. We don't plan on traveling far but intend to stay in town or surrounding areas camping. My hubby will continue working full time at his job and I will be with the kids during the day. There aren't many rv parks around here, and the two parks we called are all filled up. Otherwise we'd probably go with a 5th wheel and park it for a while.

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I don't have children and no partner, just two cats. But no matter how many there are full timing in a class A is preferable to me. I have lived in a 32 foot class C and a 27 foot class A and even though the C was 5 feet shorter than the A the A felt 5 feet longer than the C. It is because with a C the first 8 feet are really wasted space. Go to an RV lot and walk through both types to see what I mean. We have a number of great articles in our forum library on full timing including one I wrote called "Full Timing 101":

http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=435:fulltimeprep&catid=29:fulltiming&Itemid=45

We have only a few thousand to spend ($6-7,000)and are looking for our new home on craigslist. Obviously, for that price we aren't going to be in something amazing and luxurious! I don't mind doing some small fixing up but would like everything to work and be safe for my two kids.

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Coincidentally I just spent that exact amount ($6500) on a 32 foot class A. 1994 Damon Challenger. I can guarantee you that in your price range any RV you get will need repairs.

I am wondering for those of you who have already done it....would a class A or class C fit the needs of a family of four better? What kind of features would you suggest looking for in a MH if we are going to have our children with us (btw we have a 6mo and a 2 1/2 yr old). Have any fulltimers with children ever cloth diapered? Would it be worth it to cram a W/D in there or just drive to laundry mats?

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I think you would be best served with bunk beds for the kids but that is a hard feature to find in an RV in your price range. Most come with beds for 4 or 6. The queen in the back and then a couch and dinette that make into a bed. But converting a couch or a dinette to a bed every night and then turning them back in the morning becomes a royal pain after a while. I wouldn't want a W/D for 4 people in an RV. You would be running it constantly. Remember you not only have clothes for four, you have bedding and towels. RV W/Ds don't have a very large capacity.

I feel like I am running into so many walls and obstacles. I realize we are very limited bc of the limited money we have to offer but what would you look for/steer clear from when buying an older MH? We have a friend trying to sell us a 76 winnebago brave for $2000 and am afraid that we will just be inheriting all kinds of problems.

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Yes you will run into many walls and obstacles. RVing is a radically different lifestyle than living in a stick and brick and it takes some time to get use to it. I would steer clear of any RV from the 70s and any RV under about $4000 in you position. I would look for one between $5k and $6k and save the other $1k for repairs.

seilerbird said:

I don't have children and no partner, just two cats. But no matter how many there are full timing in a class A is preferable to me. I have lived in a 32 foot class C and a 27 foot class A and even though the C was 5 feet shorter than the A the A felt 5 feet longer than the C. It is because with a C the first 8 feet are really wasted space. Go to an RV lot and walk through both types to see what I mean. We have a number of great articles in our forum library on full timing including one I wrote called "Full Timing 101":

http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=435:fulltimeprep&catid=29:fulltiming&Itemid=45
Coincidentally I just spent that exact amount ($6500) on a 32 foot class A. 1994 Damon Challenger. I can guarantee you that in your price range any RV you get will need repairs. I think you would be best served with bunk beds for the kids but that is a hard feature to find in an RV in your price range. Most come with beds for 4 or 6. The queen in the back and then a couch and dinette that make into a bed. But converting a couch or a dinette to a bed every night and then turning them back in the morning becomes a royal pain after a while. I wouldn't want a W/D for 4 people in an RV. You would be running it constantly. Remember you not only have clothes for four, you have bedding and towels. RV W/Ds don't have a very large capacity.Yes you will run into many walls and obstacles. RVing is a radically different lifestyle than living in a stick and brick and it takes some time to get use to it. I would steer clear of any RV from the 70s and any RV under about $4000 in you position. I would look for one between $5k and $6k and save the other $1k for repairs.

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Sage words indeed.  Consider your options carefully.

Thanks so much for the advice. May I ask why you say to stay away from rv's from the 70's? Is it because of safety issues or just more likely that they would break?

Sounds like a class A would fit us better.

Yes, bunks would be ideal, but like you said I am just not finding those in our price range.  Our baby sleeps with us and I know my oldest son would only need a small space to sleep. I really like the large bottom bunk that I have seen and a small top bunk. That'd be perfect for our family.
I am sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but is it relatively easy to install a pull down bunk over a queen?

I might want to squeeze a washer in there just because I have to wash my kids diapers every day and would rather do it at home then hauling them and the kids to the laundry mat.

Thanks again!

imkidarose said:

Thanks so much for the advice. May I ask why you say to stay away from rv's from the 70's? Is it because of safety issues or just more likely that they would break?

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The whole motorhome idea was still being formed in the 70s and everyone that I have looked at is missing a number of items that became standard in the 80s. 70s RVs were very small compared to later RVs. You will need at least a 32 footer and they were very rare in the 70s. And they are more likely to break and parts can be harder to find. Very few people own 70s RVs so finding advice on your particular model may be difficult. There were some great motorhomes produced in the 70s though, GMCs come to mind, but they are very small and very pricey.

I am sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but is it relatively easy to install a pull down bunk over a queen?

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Of course you can ask anything you wish. That is what we are here for. There are no dumb questions. Relatively easy, no, but not impossible.

I might want to squeeze a washer in there just because I have to wash my kids diapers every day and would rather do it at home then hauling them and the kids to the laundry mat.

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Check this thread out for some great laundry options. Especially the 7th reply placed by DearMissMermaid. It is about 1/4th the way down the page. A $200 washer that is very compact and energy and water efficient. Then you can dry them by hanging them up in the shower.
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=48811.msg449989#msg449989

Here's my perspective on the washer/dryer.  I have a Splendide and you can do two sets of towels per load or one set of bed sheets per load or several pairs of jean per load.  Any more than that and the wrinkles will be too much.  An all-in-one unit is great but you'll be washing every day and will definitely need to be hooked up to water and sewer.  The RV washers are different than those in a house because they use water even during the drying cycle.  They're efficient and clean well, but take longer for drying and are just different than what you're used to.  Obviously a stacked unit would be nicer for a family of four, but that's not practical space-wise for a family of four in an RV.  You're going to need every inch of storage space!  The baby may sleep with you now but that won't last long so bunk beds will be necessary shortly.  Also, the kids will need some private space as they get older and they need specific places to put their things, just like Mom and Dad.

As an alternative, you might think about buying a trailer or what we call a park model in one of the trailer parks near you.  Sometimes people sell units that already are in place.  This would eliminate the need to find another space that has hookups and eliminate the need to get a motorhome that "could" be costly to run.  We've been seeing a lot of people who think they want an RV because it's less costly than renting an apartment.  It can be given the right circumstances, but it also might be more costly if you jump in too quickly.  Take your time making this decision so you're in the less costly category and not the more costly.  Remember that motorhomes have engines and all kinds of things that need to maintained and you don't want to get yourself into the proverbial money pit.  They also need to be driven occasionally because sitting for too long isn't good for them.  Good luck!

ArdraF 

seilerbird, that makes a lot of sense about not going for a 70's model now. I was very surprised by the number of class A MHs for sale in the area that were actually in our price range.

And that link was great! Not only did Miss Mermaid really help but I found a link to a blog of a mom who washes her children's diapers with a small hand crank washer. Sounds like a great investment to me!

ArdraF, you are right. My toddler is already so independent, it would be really good for him to have his own little area.  I really liked the idea of a park model and looked into that before deciding on a MH. Not only were they too costly but there are only two rv parks in the area and they said its hard to get a spot bc they are full all the time. There are a ton of mobile home parks but only allow single-wide mobile homes in them. Since we have to stay in town for DHs job and can't find anywhere to sit a trailer for a long amount of time we realized we'd need something mobile so we could move around the city and outskirts and do a lot of dry docking. Plus we'd like to travel our state and do a lot of camping on the weekends.

We did decide to do this to save money and I know there will be hidden costs that we haven't come across yet, but at the moment half of DH's check goes to just renting (and utilities) and we are falling more and more behind. There have a been a couple of times this year where we feared eviction. I read an article on Hoover camps from the 1930's and it sparked the idea for us to full time in an rv. I guess you can say that we are purchasing our first home. Literally. We'd feel more secure owning an rv knowing we can live in that if DH was out of work for some reason. If it came down to it we could find family and friends who'd let us park if we didn't have the gas money to move around.
Our long term plan is to full time and move around the city while saving money for an acre of land. Once we get an acre we have a home and some land. Then we can get started on a self sufficient homestead. An RV that we own and a piece of dirt we own is definitely more secure then renting and going broke with nothing to show!

Thanks again for your help!

Well the problem is that you won't save money by boondocking. Your batteries can only hold so much juice and then when they are half way depleted you have to recharge them. That means running the generator. Generators use about a half a gallon of gas per hour. You would need to run your gen probably 4 hours a day to keep them topped off. That's $8 per day in gas alone. The RV park I am staying in is about $10 per day. RV parks usually have Wifi and cable. If you don't have Wifi and you need the Internet there is another $50 per month for an air card. Then there is the dump station. With running several loads of laundry a day you will be going to the dump every day. Some dumps are free some costs money, they all cost money to drive to them.

Boondocking sounds like free rent but it is not. A family of four uses a lot of utilities and it is usually cheaper to find an inexpensive RV park and a lot safer, and a lot less wear and tear on your RV. Drive it around much and you will be spending money to keep it running.

I am sorry to rain on your parade but there really is no free lunch.

Saw this thread this evening -- and wish I had more time to interact with you. You have gotten some great advice, especially in terms of the pros and cons of the different alternatives available to you.

From what I have read here so far it appears to me that initially finding a Trailer or Fifth Wheel might be your best bet, as some have already suggested. Many RVers that have larger trucks and pull make extra money by transporting other trailers around for individuals and dealers.  And many that live in 5th wheels and trailers find a park they like and can afford, then pay to have their trailer moved. A fellow I knew that stayed in a park South of Stockton made nice extra money's moving trailers and 5th Wheels to and from the Bay Area and other communities in the area. Most any park you find yourself in will most certainly have person with a dually that will help you out.

That would eliminate the cost of travel and truck or MH maintenance - which can really add up and not save much over renting an apartment. Also, the insurance on a trailer would be much less as well. Divide 100 miles by 7.5 mpg and multiply by the cost of gas in your area to begin to see what that expense alone will be.

BTW, the most rented MH is a 24' Class C -- the reason being that most renters have one or two kids, and the C has the bed over the cab that an A does not. And as Seilerbird mentions, breaking down the dinette or couch every night will get old fast. But then, that is not fulltiming in the C. 

On Boondocking -- it "can" be cheaper that parks, but will take some adjustments to the RV that was designed primarily to be hooked up. I have been boondocking for about 2 1/2 of the past 3 months and have saved a ton over parks. I have not spent a dime running my 5000 Onan genset but rather run my 2000 Honda genset that gives me 5 to 8 hours per gallon. Am now looking at propane heaters that will eliminate the electric and inefficiencies of the MH furnace. I also have several solar panels that assist in charging my batteries with 5 to 9 amps when the sun is shining. I have no need for the larger genset unless I need A/C. However, and this is a big "however", I am a single solo RVer. Your scenario is much different.

Anyway, stay with us here as you work through this. We have some that do the RVing lifestyle in every way it can be done. Please let us know how you are progressing.

seilerbird

Boondocking sounds like free rent but it is not. A family of four uses a lot of utilities and it is usually cheaper to find an inexpensive RV park and a lot safer, and a lot less wear and tear on your RV. Drive it around much and you will be spending money to keep it running.

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We don't at all believe that we will be getting free rent, nor are we looking for a "free lunch". We know that it will cost money but no where near renting a 3 bedroom house and paying for all the utilities that go with that. It's not a matter of trying to live for free, but of simplifying. Cutting costs and making sacrifices to get to where we want to be long term.

Your batteries can only hold so much juice and then when they are half way depleted you have to recharge them. That means running the generator. Generators use about a half a gallon of gas per hour. You would need to run your gen probably 4 hours a day to keep them topped off. That's $8 per day in gas alone.

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Just as Bob said, we plan on making some adjustments to our rv.  We want to get some solar panels so we'd only need the generator at night or on really cloudy days as backup. I have a book on making these changes and have read about using pvc piping spread on the roof to get solar hot water. We also have a solar cooker that we can make a bunch of stews/chili type things and you can even bake in them. We are really going to really think twice about using the electric inside. I am hoping to have the kids outside as much as possible. We aren't planning for the lifestyle of sitting around in the rv watching tv with all the lights on and microwave cooking (no offense to anyone who does, just not our goal).

With running several loads of laundry a day you will be going to the dump every day. Some dumps are free some costs money, they all cost money to drive to them.

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I found on that link a hand crank washer, I would only need to do one load of children's diapers a day and it uses a very small amount of water. We'd hang dry so no electric. As far as wifi, we already have that taken care of. Also, there is a dump station right next to DH's work, its $10 to dump. So that is where we would if we were dry docking around his work.

And as far as maintenance, our best friend is a mechanic and works for the bus station repairing those big ol things. We've payed him to help us out with our Volvo and he has taught us quite a bit. I know he'd be willing to help out with out MH and could teach us a lot. We plan on doing a lot of the maintenance ourselves to reduce costs. I am thinking that one of the biggest expenses will be gas for moving around. But its something we were going to be using anyways for traveling the state on weekends visiting different farms and such.

Bob,

BTW, the most rented MH is a 24' Class C -- the reason being that most renters have one or two kids, and the C has the bed over the cab that an A does not. And as Seilerbird mentions, breaking down the dinette or couch every night will get old fast. But then, that is not fulltiming in the C. 

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This was really the only reason I was considering a class C over an A. So my son could have a little area to himself. It seems like that would be a nice little spot a kid to hang out and call his own. I know I would have loved it when I was young.

From what I have read here so far it appears to me that initially finding a Trailer or Fifth Wheel might be your best bet, as some have already suggested.

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I agree, but like I mentioned earlier, there are only two parks in the area (both a little farther from town than desirable) and they don't have openings. We also want the ability to move around when we want without a paying someone to move us each time.  There is however a National Park on the other side of town and we planning to camp there a lot. They have daily/weekly/monthly rates. We have an 89 Volvo wagon (and a moped) as our get around, so we won't necessarily have to move the rv every time we want to go somewhere.

Also, the ability for me to move the rv without help is a huge factor. Even if we spent the money on the truck and 5th wheel I am not confident that I would be able to hitch and unhitch everything on my own. From what I understand I don't need Hulk like powers to get a MH going.


Thanks again guys for the suggestions and input!

I am glad you are thinking this through. A few people come in here asking questions thinking they can buy a really cheap RV and park for free somewhere forever and spend no money. I am just trying to alert you to all the possible pitfalls of RV living before you pull the trigger. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions. It is better to find out before you buy that after.

Our first motor home was a 1993 30' class A.  We only used it for camping but I can give you some information about a typical RV from that vintage as far as the cost of moving it around and how often you will be needing to empty your tanks.  We were doing very well and getting around 8 MPG in that rig on the highway, city was not nearly as good.  Our insurance was inexpensive because our annual millage was quite low and registration was only about 100 per year.  Oil changes were 2 times per year and I did them myself for around 50 bucks.  Using all of those figures it cost us about $1.50 per mile to move the thing around, fuel alone was around 95 cents per mile.  So for easy math call it a buck per mile just for fuel to move it.  At 5 miles to the dump site and 5 more miles to find a new place to park you are running 10 bucks per day in fuel cost and 15 if you count maintenance, registration and insurance. 

The tanks are going to kill you at 10 bucks per dump.  In our 93 30 footer with 2 adults and a toddler we were filling our grey tank on average once per day if we were not careful.  2 short showers, dishes for 3 meals and a half full bath tub for the bear pretty much filled the tank.  If we were on the road we could go 2 maybe 3 days before the water started coming up into the tub. But that meant all three of us were showering every other day and throw away dishes were being used some of the time.  Dumping grey water any where but a sewer or septic tank is illegal pretty much everywhere so you can skip that as an option. 

So I would budget around $300 per month to empty your tanks and probably another 300-500 in fuel and oil changes just to keep the battery charged and to move it to a new spot everyday.  600 bucks per  month can get you more square feet in a 1 bedroom apartment in most metro areas.  RVing is not inexpensive even if someone gives you the rig for free.  My advise would be to rent a small affordable apartment and  buy the acre first, then buy the RV and put in your 30 amp and dump station at the site.  Not to mention nothing is inexpensive for an RV.  Need a new car battery, it might run you 60 to 80 bucks, need a new RV battery for the truck portion 100-150.  Need a new battery bank for the house section and 150 each isn't that uncommon for good 6 volt deep cycle batteries, most Class As will have two of those.

Getting rid of the 3 bedroom house might be a great idea and downsizing could be and excellent move but at 30' 1993 Class A has about 200 sq ft of living space.  Most studio apartments are larger and less expensive than 600 per month.  Oh and each foot you add or delete from that 30 feet will have an effect of about 7 to 8 sq feet.

Good Luck,
Jeff Brown

Lot's of common sense in Jeff's post, need to really work things out with RV living.  Yea, I could by myself figure out how to take care of myself and make due, families in RV's have so much more to think about, especially with young children.... I can remember reading posts on forums about hay bails and freezing temps and no water, condensation on the sides of the RV... Lot's to think about with boxes on wheels vs other.  Although, this is just one persons perspective, not intended as some bible for all.

jeffbrown said:

The tanks are going to kill you at 10 bucks per dump.  In our 93 30 footer with 2 adults and a toddler we were filling our grey tank on average once per day if we were not careful.

So I would budget around $300 per month to empty your tanks and probably another 300-500 in fuel and oil changes just to keep the battery charged and to move it to a new spot everyday.

600 bucks per  month can get you more square feet in a 1 bedroom apartment in most metro areas.

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You are suggesting they will spend around $750/mos just on charging the battery and dumps??? Yikes!!!

They could pay for a Honda 1000 or 2000 in a few months w/the gas savings alone. My 2000 gets at least 6 hours per gallon (and was told a few days back that an RVing neighbor gets 10 hours/gal on his) - so I would not agree that they could expect the numbers you quote unless they are super careless with water and electric usage. And even in a $600 apartment, they must add utility bills for electric and such that would exceed careful usage in an RV -- IMHO. 

Paying $10 to dump is silly. There are many places to legally dump for free in this country, and here is a web site listing both free and paid dump stations:

http://www.rvdumps.com/dumpstations/

Bob Buchanan said:

You are suggesting they will spend around $750/mos just on charging the battery and dumps??? Yikes!!!

They could pay for a Honda 1000 or 2000 in a few months w/the gas savings alone. My 2000 gets at least 6 hours per gallon (and was told a few days back that an RVing neighbor gets 10 hours/gal on his) - so I would not agree that they could expect the numbers you quote unless they are super careless with water and electric usage. And even in a $600 apartment, they must add utility bills for electric and such that would exceed careful usage in an RV -- IMHO. 

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No doubt that a small generator is efficient, I think what is relevant though, is that an RV full-time life style without an extremely cheap spot that includes utilities is going to cost not only $ but hardship and unworkable daily maintenance.  Let's face it, the duties of daily or hourly electrical use and removable waste from an RV with a family are a job in itself, that's not life as I know it.  Although, this is just posting from one persons perspective, others may think differently and believe this is all doable.

jje1960 said:

Let's face it, the duties of daily or hourly electrical use and removable waste from an RV with a family are a job in itself, that's not life as I know it.

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I understand your POV, however, it appears to me the OP is not currently looking for life as others may know it -- but rather have decided to bite the bullet for awhile to get more on their feet financially. And are OK with finding dumps for less than $10, not filling the grey once a day -- and perhaps taking my advice and saving hundreds on electric.

My cost estimate had nothing to do with running the gen-set, that would cost even more.  I was only assuming that the rig was driven between 10 and 20 miles per day and the tanks were dumped daily.  Those two things alone would cost around 600 per month.  My point was that RVing is not cheap, if serious cost savings are your goal it is possible to achieve that goal making different sacrifices.  If you planned to travel the country and workcamp or you had the piece of land already my recommendations would be entirely different I just really think that an RV to live in a local boon-docking situation is not a good financial decision.  Moving to an apartment or even a small rental house would likely be much cheaper, that doesn't even take the depreciation of the rig into effect.

Jeff

This is an interesting post and I thought I would add my thoughts.  We have a 5er and like to get away from everything  at times.  In Minnesota we have lots of open space and can park for free in alot of areas on state, county or Federal land for  periods of time.  We have stayed out for 10 days, showered every day, and lived a normal life style.  We can go for the entire period without charging batteries or dumping any of the tanks.  We do have solar panels (2 15w) on the roof to help charge the batteries and a Honda 2000 for charging if we need it, and it will run for 3-4 hours on a tank of gas ( I believe 5qts).  We all have different life styles, but if the climate is favorable, I think you can live in an RV fairly cheaply. Heating in winter is more expensive but reading other posts, we have RVers living full time in Wyoming and N Dakota in their rigs.  Another thing that may surprise alot of people is the dumping of grey water-locals regulations will apply but houseboats are built without holding tanks for grey water.  Grey water is dumped in the lake.  Sounds bad ,but is true.  I had a HB in Voyaguer Natl Park for 10 years and of the 100 HBs in the park, mine was the only one that held grey water in a tank.

Our current rig a 2002 Bounder has much larger tanks and can go a week with no trouble for the 3 of us.  But you aren't going to get a 2002 RV for their budget.  I'd recommend as Seilerbird did, either find an RV park where you can have hookups or pass on the idea.  As I said earlier there are other cost saving methods than jumping from a 3 bedroom home that is probably over 1000 sq feet into an rv of well under 300 sq feet with a family of 4.

Jeff