EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???  (Read 8928 times)

Ernie n Tara

  • ---
  • Posts: 3274
  • Life is Good - Together
Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« on: February 17, 2012, 09:20:04 AM »
Hi,

My wife is a singer of quality (at least many people think so) and we have been asked to provide entertainment several times lately. We've borrowed equipment a couple of times and I think I'd rather we own it.

We already have the computer/music/microphones, mixer, etc., but do not have an amplifier and speakers/stands, etc. I've been looking, but (God! I hate to admit to not knowing everything!) am not really up to speed on the appropriate size of speakers (wattage) required for small venues; probably up to about 100' by 100' and usually outdoors.

Suggestions, opinions, and facts will be appreciated.

Ernie

An example of where I've been looking:
http://www.buy.com/prod/new-3-way-12-speakers-stands-amp-and-cables-pa-karaoke-or-dj-set/224323215.html

PS  I am conversant with acoustic devices and electronics since I've worked in the Submarine stealth field for 25+ years and previously taught electronics for several years.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 06:24:19 PM by Ernie n Tara »
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

Jammer

  • ---
  • Posts: 1491
  • Moar Aluminuminum!
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 09:57:59 AM »
I have done a number of outdoor gigs, usually for church groups.

In general it works best to run a mono mix.  As a result you really don't need two speakers.  I carry one 15" speaker instead of two 12"s.  I don't use stands outside, just set the speaker on the ground.  One less thing to carry.

My stuff is from Carvin because, while they are cheaper than some of the major brands, the quality and durability of their products is good and is consistent.  I would recommend them over any of the bargain basement brands.

In your situation you might prefer a powered speaker (one with the amplifier built into it).  For small setups it makes for fewer cables and less stuff to carry.  I don't use powered speakers myself, ended up with a powered mixer instead, but if you don't need a mixer then there are benefits.  Here's the powered version of the 15" speaker I use:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/lm/

2004 Suburban 2500 4wd 8.1 / 2010 Airstream Classic 30' /
1997 K2500 regular cab long bed pickup / 1971 Cayo C-11

Ernie n Tara

  • ---
  • Posts: 3274
  • Life is Good - Together
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 06:37:57 PM »
Thanks,
That does look like a possibility. Anyone else??
Ernie
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19753
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 07:07:18 PM »
Well if you have good Mics. the #1 item on your important list is a proper mixer/equlizer.. beyond that I can not recommend an amplified speaker or small amp for you.. I know many companies make good ones.

You might try this  Google Heil Sound and ask Bob what he recommends..  He ...

Well, I do know who's mics he will recommend (They are among the best, Heil of course) but I know he buys his mixers.. at least at the moment.

(He is soon to release a new USB mixer/preamp/converter but this is not what I"d recommend for you.. I use a small professional mixer when I do recordings, This thing is built like a tank, as in.... Well not mine but others like it have been known to survive being run over by the band's bus.

Peavy makes good portable systems.. Or ask a square dance caller (Some of them use Peavy too)
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Water Dog

  • ---
  • Posts: 2490
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 07:16:30 PM »
Bose makes an excellent speaker for small venues and can be used in a mono system as well, but they are a little on the the higher end of the price spectrum. You can take a look ]here. You also might want to check out JBL, Peavy, and Mackie among others. The nice thing about the Bose, other than the quality sound, is that they are a little lighter in weight.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 07:20:03 PM by Water Dog »
Dennis

"Heart is where the home is"
---------------------------------
Dennis & Vici Bernhard
2000 Bounder
1999 Jeep Wrangler
Home: Sumner, TX

Jammer

  • ---
  • Posts: 1491
  • Moar Aluminuminum!
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 09:52:38 PM »
JBL and Mackie make excellent products that are suitable for everyday use on stage and are priced accordingly.

Peavy's product line is (like Carvin) geared more towards the serious amateur or budget minded venue.  Overall I've had good luck with their products for what they are.

Be careful with Bose as they are a prestige brand.  While their products are excellent, in most cases, there are other similarly excellent products available at less expense.
2004 Suburban 2500 4wd 8.1 / 2010 Airstream Classic 30' /
1997 K2500 regular cab long bed pickup / 1971 Cayo C-11

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 08:25:02 AM »
I currently play in a blues band and we have built a PA to our specs that will handle a medium outdoor venue.   I have to agree with the comments about JBL and Mackie, we use both, JBL speakers and a Mackie mixer with various amps (Crown and Nady) and EQ's, and of course Shure SM58 mics for vocals and the SM57 for micing my acoustic.  There are better mics, but not for the same money.

But for you, a good place to start for an all-purpose PA system package would be Musician's Friend, http://www.musiciansfriend.com/live-sound.  Look up live sound and then PA packages.  Fender makes some fairly decent and economical systems that might fit your needs.
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

livingthedream

  • ---
  • Posts: 68
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 09:30:32 AM »
2-JBL Eon Self powered 15" speakers
1-Mackie 1202 mixer
2-reduced end Tripod stands


The amplifier is internal . You should always use 2 speakers . This is for porper coverage of the performance area as well as having a back up.

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 03:45:59 PM »
You should always use 2 speakers.

Besides the idea of area coverage, most mixers these days are stereo.  This may or may not matter to the music you're wanting to produce.

Those Fender package PAs are pretty neat.  I have a friend that has one and it can handle nearly all small venues (50-100 people or less), and it folds up into itself to make moving it easier.
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44590
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 08:57:03 PM »
Quote from: Luca1369
Those Fender package PAs are pretty neat.

Aye Steve. Our uke group has one (currently in my garage), used for solos and announcements. One caveat - they don't have good base. So we're currently in the market for a powered base speaker.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 09:21:33 PM »
Aye Steve. Our uke group has one (currently in my garage), used for solos and announcements. One caveat - they don't have good base. So we're currently in the market for a powered base speaker.

I wouldn't have thought that bass would be much of an issue with a uke.
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44590
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 10:19:34 PM »
It's not, especially since we don't amp the ukes. But we do amp a base guitar.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Ernie n Tara

  • ---
  • Posts: 3274
  • Life is Good - Together
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2012, 10:02:46 AM »
I'm back.

The choices have evolved to those linked below.  Tara eliminated a similar system by Yamaha; but?

I'll add (actually have) a Shure SM58 to whichever one we decide on. A powered subwoofer is an option at some point in time. Everyone think one or these might work? Tradeoffs?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ub2442fx--harbinger-aps15-pa-package

http://www.kraftmusic.com/catalog/audio/paspeakers/index.asp?product=10615

Thanks for all of the responses.

Ernie
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

Larry N.

  • ---
  • Posts: 4486
  • Westminster, CO
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 10:31:08 AM »
Well, both links have decent equipment, Ernie. And if Tara's performances (and venues) are similar in nature to what I saw in Texas last year, I'd think either should work fine for you, assuming you have the storage space on board. I'd think that that particular Eurorack mixer is overkill (there are similar, less expensive Euroracks with fewer inputs - mine has two XLR and four line level inputs).

In the Denver area (so presumably in most cities of any size), there are several stores that carry that sort of equipment, and you could walk in and look around, even test run some of it in the store. That might help you decide.

And I agree, Tara's a good singer. We really enjoyed her performance.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

geodrake

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 5736
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 10:42:51 AM »
Hey, I sure wish we would have know of Tara's talent last winter at Markham Park. 
George Drake

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 02:20:12 PM »
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ub2442fx--harbinger-aps15-pa-package
http://www.kraftmusic.com/catalog/audio/paspeakers/index.asp?product=10615

Letís first discuss the mics and mic booms of each system.  These items should not be the deciding factor on your system because both units are using similar setups that are basically good sellers because they are cheap.  Since you have an SM58 youíre well covered in that regard and unless you fall on one, either boom stand will do the job.  Donít expect the cables to be pro-quality either, you might find that they donít fit quite right in the mics, they might be too loose or too tight, but they will work.  Just remember that in order to sell a system at a low price, corners have to be cut.

The Peavey: The first thing you must do is wade through the BS that makes up a lot of ads trying to make equipment sound better than it is, such as the line in the Peavey ad about "60mm faders."  One look at the photo on the Peavey Escort page tells you so much more about the faders than the words will.  I had to Google the system to find out that the speakers are only 10" and that the wattage is 150 per side (ad claims "300 watts").  The Peavey claims a 5-band EQ which is correct although it can be misleading. One might think each input has 5-band controls, not so.  Each input has only bass and treble controls and the 5-band EQ affects only the output of ALL channels not each individual channel (even though the wording suggests that this approach is best, it is not since it does not give more adjustment to each individual channel).  The Peavey does have onboard reverb and that is good although how important it is to your music is your personal choice.  Peavey boasts 15v Phantom Power, the standard is 48v so Iím not sure why they even advertise this.

All in all though the Peavey is a good system, it should be American Made unless theyíve sourced it out.  One thing the Peavey wins points for is that it folds together into a nice case for moving and storage.  Hereís a link to the manual for the system, itís important to look at the manuals before you purchase: http://www.peavey.com/assets/literature/manuals/03513400_4.pdf

The Behringer:   Behringer is one of those manufacturers that inspires arguments from buyers.  Some love the quality and price, others complain that Behringer simply rips off other designs and slaps their name on it.  If you can get by this point you can look at Behringer with a better eye, they do in fact make quality products at a fair price, where they got the design from may not matter to some of us.  I would not own any of their guitar amps (perhaps Iím an elitist), but I do have a Behringer A/B pedal that works great and was much cheaper than other versions.

This Behringer system has a much larger mixer which as one poster said might be overkill, others might look at it as something to grow into.  Who knows, maybe youíll play somewhere that youíll need the extra capacity.  Youíll also love all the bells and whistles that are standard on the Behringer (auto send and returns, headphone jacks, subgroups, true monitor capability).  If you Google the mixer youíll see that it sells online for approximately $300 just by itself.  Hereís a link to the manual: http://www.behringer.com/assets/UB1622FX-PRO_P0161_M_EN.pdf

The mixer has a far better EQ setup giving you better control over your sound (3 bands on each individual channel and 4 bands on stereo channels with a 5-band EQ on the final outputs).  It also has true Phantom Power compared to the Peavey.  The Peavey has onboard Reverb, but the Behringer has an effects processor which offers Reverb (12 styles of reverb!) and 24 other effects such as a phaser, a flanger, a delay, and even a noise gate.

The speakers and price also make the Behringer more appealing (at least to me).  While Iím not a fan of powered speakers, the 15Ē Harbinger (a brand owned by Guitar Center) speakers should give you better response and certainly better bottom end than the 10Ē speakers in the Peavey unit.  There are two mic/line inputs on the back, as well as a pair of RCA inputs that let you connect a CD or MP3 player if you like.  Each input has its own input level control, and there is also a master volume control.  Finally, there is a 5-band graphic equalizer that lets you tailor the sound from 250 Hz and up.  I almost have to wonder if the speakers, a couple of boom stands, and another mic wouldn't fit the bill for you.  If you're looking at a 100' by 100' outdoor venue, I believe these speakers would be a better choice than the Peavey's.  Here's a link to the manual on the Harbinger speakers: http://www.harbingerproaudio.com/pdf/Harbinger_APS15_manual_LR.pdf

If it were me, I would get far more bang for my buck with the Behringer although Iíd have to deal with moving and storing the gear every time I moved.  This is where you must decide which is more important to you.

When it comes to pricing, give Musician's Friend a call as they will match anybody's price on the same item and they always include free shipping (give them the web site address for the item and the price listed and they'll check it out while you're on the phone with them).  I've dealt with them for years and swear by them.  I ordered something last night and it shipped this morning.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 03:06:02 PM by Luca1369 »
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Ernie n Tara

  • ---
  • Posts: 3274
  • Life is Good - Together
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 03:40:29 PM »
Thanks to all for the help;

Luca1369 - I really appreciate the detailed discussion and evaluation. You've probably pushed me in a slightly different direction.

Larry N. Thanks, I'm sure we'll be doing it again down the road; maybe Moab?

George - We'll see you again down the road I'm sure. You are right that our current equipment even would have worked well for the gathering's there.

I got out my current equipment and have about decided that the two XLR, four line input Eurorack that I already have is probably adequate for any foreseeable requirements.

That said, it looks as if we may be better off going with Behringer's powered speakers (either the EUROLIVE B212D or the similar eight inch speaker) I'm currently tending toward the B212D; anyone have experience with these?? Other powered speakers that might be more highly recommended??

Again, thanks for all of the help, It's a long road, but I think we're nearly there,

Ernie

Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 04:14:07 PM »
Please let us know which items you settle upon.
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Ernie n Tara

  • ---
  • Posts: 3274
  • Life is Good - Together
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 09:52:03 AM »
Fiinal Post

We decided on the Behringer EUROLIVE B212D Active PA Speaker Systems. System is now:

2 ea. B212D speakers w/stands - more power than we're likely to need, but wth.
1 ea. Shure SM58 microphone w/stand and cable.
2 ea. Nady Wireless microphones (and a single channel PA if anyone is interested)
1 ea. Eurorack UB1002 Mixer - 10 input (2 mikes)
2 ea. 25 ft. speaker cables and misc, hook up cabling
Sony Vaio Portable PC - For backup recordings, etc.
Sony Vaio dedicated recording PC w/USB 16 bit digitizer

I do believe this will keep us going for a while. Thanks to everyone for the help and recommendations. I realize we've vacillated, but I've learned a lot and we got to the right place.

Ernie

PS We've also got something like 1,000 Karaoke tracks.

 
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

BadjerJim

  • ---
  • Posts: 26
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 07:17:40 PM »
Ernie - I read through the posts and was going to add my 2-cents...

But the Behringer system you got is Exactly the Same as one I put together for my church about 8 months ago.  When all the dollars hit the floor, you're in for just over a Grand.  I don't think you can beat the sound or flexibility for that price.  Plus, the speakers aren't too heavy to carry around.

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 19753
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2012, 11:56:17 AM »
I will say this... (Even though it is too late) When it comes to your sound, Don't skimp, cause who knows you might get to play a bigger house, and a big system,,, turned down,, sounds way better than a small system turned up too far.

Microrphones:  http://www.heilsound.com if I'm not mistaken,, Might as well go first class.. If you want to know who buys Bob's microphones.. Just drop by any good CD store and start reading names.   A good number of them are his customers.

That's on the pro line

There used to be a publication called CALLBOOK, some Libraries may still have one on hand.. For the "Ham Radio" line.  A good number of the listings there.

NOTE: i'm not (currently) one of his customers.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2012, 12:45:07 PM »
Microrphones:  http://www.heilsound.com if I'm not mistaken,, Might as well go first class..

Good point John.

The parts of a sound system where you really shouldn't skimp are the ends, the parts that take air movement and turn it into an electrical signal (a microphone) and the other end of the system where the signal is turned back into moving air (a speaker).  Everything in the middle can be minimalistic depending on your needs and budget.
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 44590
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2012, 01:04:58 PM »
Quote from: Luca1369
Everything in the middle can be minimalistic ...

Steve, are you talking about my singing and playing?  :(
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Luca1369

  • ---
  • Posts: 1410
    • Seaworthy.com, Your Bahamas and Caribbean Cruising Advisory
Re: Small Venue Amplifier and Speakers???
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2012, 01:23:05 PM »
Steve, are you talking about my singing and playing?  :(

Only if you run on electricity Tom...
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

 

Hosted by Over The Network