I need new tires, but ...

I learn something new every day ...

While waiting at Mccoy Turck Tire Center, I caught sight of Tire Business, a trade magazine that was full of info and stats on the tire industry. My curiosity and my stats/data analysis background kicked in as I digested the numerous tables and charts. Much of it can be found at tirebusiness.com but it was interesting to see the revenues of the major players and their rankings. Goodyear had the largest tire sales in North America for the last 2 years, with 2011 revenue of $9.4B, followed by Michelin $8.5B and Bridgestone $7.6B. Cooper, Continental, Hankook and Yokohama were all a distant also-ran. I wondered if my meager purchase would help propel Michelin to #1 in 2012  ???

I also talked with a local trucker who was getting an out-of-round tire fix. He hauls feed to the local dairies all day. This is the Central Valley of California, which we know is full of farms for hundreds of miles, but I didn't know there are 350 dairies in the area. There was I thinking that our milk came from Safeway 

As I read those tire industry numbers, I can't help thinking back to my first visit to Malaysia in the 70's. We'd managed to squeeze in a day to play tourist, a rare thing on my countless business trips. We hired a local taxi driver to give us a tour, and one place we visited was a small rubber plantation. A family all crammed into a single-room house had a bunch of rubber trees in their back yard.

They drove stakes into the bark of the trees, hung a little pot on each stake, and waited for the latex to drip out. There's some explanation and photos in this Wiki on natural rubber. I wonder how many trees would it take to supply any one of the large tire manufacturers  ???

I was also reminded of a chance encounter with someone from the tire industry in the 90's. I was attending a conference in Finland, along with 1100 other people. At lunchtime I see this short, elderly Japanese guy wandering around looking for somewhere to sit. I called him over and invited him to join me. This guy was the retired Chief Engineer for Bridgestone. Big-mouth here asks, somewhat sarcastically, "how many times can you re-invent rubber?" He patiently explained that his job had been to engineer the equipment to make the tire manufacturing process more efficient.

Coincidentally, the keynote speaker at that conference was the CEO of Nokia. He explained that Nokia had been in numerous different businesses, including tire manufacturing. They'd decided to get out of the tire and other business, and focus on one business - mobile phones. If they hadn't done that, maybe I'd have been putting Nokia tires on the coach  ???

I spent all morning on the phone to FMCA, my bank, credit card company (Visa), and Michelin.

The dealer quote for 6 tires and extensions was $3,953.59. When I checked out, they wanted to run my credit card, although I explained it would be invoiced by Michelin and that I'd registered my CC with them. But, the gal insisted, and she charged my CC. A couple of minutes later, the boss came in and said "no, you shouldn't charge his card because it has to be handled a different way. So, go ahead and give him a refund", which she did. Before leaving, I made sure they had the Michelin Advantage number, my FMCA member number, and my credit card number, although I'd provided that info ahead of time.

When we got home, Chris took a call from the dealer who explained that they didn't have the correct name on my CC, and she provided that. I called the dealer later to be sure everything was straight, and that they were sure they'd get paid. Everything was OK, except that they told me that Michelin wouldn't allow them to use their price for balancing, and I should expect $4/wheel additional on the invoice.

This morning, the invoice arrived from FMCA via email, showing a total of $3,977.59, which is consistent with the $4/wheel additional balancing cost. Then I decided to check out our CC account online, and got a big surprise 

Although no charges had posted, there were three "authorizations". One for the dealer's original charge and two from Michelin for $4,023.56 each. But, what got my attention was that the credit limit on the card had been reduced by approx $12,000, the sum of the three authorizations 

The result of all the phone conversations was:

• The refund from the dealer will take 3-4 days to post. Their pre-authorization will then drop off.
• Only one of the Michelin "authorizations" was actually a pre-authorization. There's a reversal in the process for the same amount, but Visa's computer system can't show it as a negative number; It has to show against my account as a separate authorization (this is nuts).
• My CC will be charged for the final invoice amount, which will further reduce the available credit.
• This brings the total for these 6 tires to approx $16,000 

I had the choice of filing a dispute with Visa, or waiting for a few days to see if line items drop off my account. I didn't want to do something that would prevent the legitimate billing, so I chose to wait a few days. If things don't drop off, I'll be filing a dispute with Visa.

I have to say that, although FMCA quickly wiped their hands of the whole thing, Visa Michelin was very proactive in answering my questions and calling me back. I don't like the way that reversals are handled (by Visa), but Michelin offered to get on a conference call with me and Visa.

Bottom line - caveat emptor if you use this Advantage program. Don't allow the dealer to run your CC, and check your CC statement.

When we bought our tires, the dealer did run the credit card, but we only showed one charge on the card from Michelin.  The invoice came from Michelin with a ship to of FMCA.  The dealer should not have processed a charge against your card.

[quote author=Ned ].... the dealer did run the credit card ....The dealer should not have processed a charge against your card.[/quote]

Contradiction?

When I re-read the program instructions, they say that only the first digit and the last four digits of the CC number should be provided to the dealer.

I think a lot of times, services run a "pending "  precharge on a a credit card to see if it is valid account.  Then they drop the pending charge an d replace it with the actual charge.  Sometimes I see the pending charge on my account for 2-3 days before it disappears.  I don't like it but so far, no real problems with that happening.  One time I had Barnes and Nobel apply a $.01 charge on my card before charging me $9.99 for an e-book.  2 days later the one cent charge was gone. 

I don't have an issue with pre-authorizations, but 3 of them for the same purchase, one of which is actually a reversal, and an additional "real" charge is way over the top. I didn't buy four sets of tires 

My caveat stands.

I had a  pre-auth mess similar to yours once with a hotel - was charged three times for a one night stand. A (slightly) incorrect charge, a charge reversal, and then the correct charge. Nobody could explain tome why the reversal appeared as an additional charge and therefore exacerbated the problem rather than fixing it. At least for a couple days. They did eventually cancel each other out, as promised.  And these people are responsible for accurately handling our money? They rival the government for idiotic procedures...

[quote author=Gary RV Roamer].... And these people are responsible for accurately handling our money? They rival the government for idiotic procedures...[/quote]

Agreed Gary. As I explained to folks on the phone, Chris is out of town this weekend and, if she should happen to charge something over whatever is left of our credit limit, it would bounce.

Here's what the agreement says about the credit card:

After the work is finished, you will need a VISA, MasterCard or American Express credit card to complete the
transaction at the servicing dealership.

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The dealer needs the credit card information to supply to Michelin for the final billing.

Sorry, I was merely quoting from the Advantage program instructions on the FMCA site:

Complete the Purchase with Credit Card and P.O. Number
After the work is finished, you will need to provide the dealer with your VISA, MasterCard or American Express credit card information to complete the transaction at the servicing dealership. You will only provide the dealer with the name on the card, the first digit, the last four digits and the expiration date of the card that you preregistered.

Wish I'd  seen (or maybe remembered) that before I gave the dealer my CC.

The correct charge hit my account this morning, and the two Michelin pre-authorizations dropped off. The original dealer pre-authorization hasn't yet dropped off, presumably because Visa hasn't yet processed the refund. My credit limit on this card is reduced by the amount of that pre-authorization. $8,000 better than yesterday, but still wrong 

It appears the instructions have changed since we bought our tires last month.  There was no preregistration of the credit card, the dealer handled it.  The quote I made was from the instructions I downloaded from the FMCA page last month.

That might explain why some folks seem confused.

Tom said:

That might explain why some folks seem confused.

Click to expand...

Including me

I just printed the current instructions and they have definitely changed.

Hopefully they can get all the wrinkles out and educate everyone in the chain. It's a great deal for anyone wanting Michelin tires, provided the insane financial stuff doesn't occur.

Maybe the new procedure was designed to prevent what happened to you.  Not every dealer is familiar with the Advantage program, I suppose.

When I first mentioned it on the phone prior to ordering, the dealer told me that "they have so many programs". I gave him the program number, he called Michelin to get the information, and promptly called me back. Unfortunately, he didn't explain it to the young lady in the office who ran my card. Two minutes later he remembered he hadn't told her, and came rushing into the office. But the deed was already done, and the chain reaction started.

I'm sure it will all come out OK in the end, and the remaining pre-authorization will drop off. When that happens, I plan to call Michelin again to let them know how we got there. Their Customer Service people seem very good to deal with, and they even have a couple of folks who specifically handle credit card issues.

Tom said:

My credit limit on this card is reduced by the amount of that pre-authorization. $8,000 better than yesterday, but still wrong 

Click to expand...

The good news is that your next payment required will be reduced by the $4,000 credit, pushing off payment for another 30 days.