Need help deciding if this 2004 Brave is a good idea

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EMan508

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Posts
146
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Yesterday I visited a 2004 Winnebago Brave 34D (Chevy 8.1 Workhorse) RV (on consignment at a dealer that only sells consignments).  It has less than 12,000 miles on it so I'm worried that the engine seals or other hidden components might bite me in the tush after my check clears.  The rig looks like it was garaged because there is very little rust or peeling paint and the body is perfect.  The interior has barely been used and I searched for leaks but found no stains. 

The negatives I found were that all tires are from 2003 (obviously I need them replaced), the bedroom emergency window (tilting panes) had moisture in between the seal, one of the outside storage compartments had water dripping in via the hinge area and the bathroom fan roof cover had a small crack. The engine battery only turned the engine over a couple of times and died so I never heard it run. The house batteries looked new but the dealer couldn't get the boost to work for the engine. The listed price was $70k (I was shocked that it was so high), but the NADA price range is from $39k-$55 depending on how you value the low mileage (personally I think it is a negative being so low).

Questions

#1 Should an 8 year old rig with so few miles be avoided?

#2 Is there really any way to test the engine/transmission for failing rubber seals or other issues from sitting?

#3 What problems have other 2004-ish Brave owners had that I should look for?

If they bring the price back down to reality then I will hire someone to also inspect it but I want to fell great about it first before investing in that service.

Thanks,

Eric
 
I would not even consider until the engine was running and all systems was proven.

$70K really seems high. I traded my '02 last year, boy do I wish i could have gotten nearly that much for it. I would think that if everything checked out good, it would probably sell in the low $40's
 
Low mileage would only worry me from the standpoint of the engine. Probably not a problem but I would have it checked really good by a good mechanic. Generator also, its a gas engine also. We really liked our '02 Brave and sometimes wished we still had it but it was on a Ford Chassis and the ride was terrible. We also once owned a 96 Brave and it was on the Chevy chassis and the ride was much better.

If the engine checked good, the other problems you noted could be easily corrected. The first things I would do if I purchased it was change the tires and service the engine, transmission and chassis.
 
The miles to me are not an issue. Most modern seals hold up very well even after sitting. I would use the age of the tires and the battery issue to get a lower price, that does seem high to me too.

asking 59 thousand with 11 thousand miles
http://www.martysusrv.com/inventory/184716/Used-2004-Winnebago-Brave-34-D.aspx
 
Way way to high on the price.  Ball park NADA is $39-48000.  Low miles is not necessarily good and the generator hours should average out for use at a minimum of 100hrs per year.  All aspects of this unit need to be checked close.  Tires, regardless of appearance, need replacing, has the brake recall been done if on a workhorse chassis.  What kind of fridge?.  If a Norcold 1200 series, they are to be avoided.  Some Winnebago models in that year range also had problems with the metal framing under the windshield glass rusting, not cheap to fix/repair.  Keep us posted. ;)
 
The Winnie Brave is/can be a nice unit if taken care of but the price is way way to high as this is a buyers market.  Ball park NADA seems to be in the  $39-48000 range.  Contrary to popular belief low miles is not necessarily good thing.  The generator hours should average out for use at a minimum of 100hrs per yea, so on a 8-9 yr old unit, I would only feel comfortable with 500+ hrs or more.  All aspects of this unit need to be checked close.  Tires, regardless of appearance, need replacing.  If you join FMCA for around $40-45 per year, they have a Michelin tire promotion program for members wher you can save $75-100 per tire.  Has the brake recall been done if on a workhorse chassis?  What kind of fridge?.  If a Norcold 1200 series, they are to be avoided as a massive recall/fix is in affect to reportedly fix the potential to catch fire.  Some Winnebago models in that year range also had problems with the metal framing under the windshield glass rusting, not cheap to fix/repair.  Keep us posted.
 
Great info - thanks!

Is the metal framing under the windshield an area I can inspect visually or will I need to take off a cover?

After a recall service is actually performed, how would I know? Is there a database to verify that it was done?

-Eric
 
I belive the actual glass has to be removed so the framing can be viewed.  The brake recall involved the W-20 & W-22 chassis and the unit your looking at is most likely involved mif it is mon one of these chassis.  The recall is free and includes new calipers.  Go to the following link with the units VIN # and see if you can check to see if it's been done.  http://www.workhorse.com/Default.aspx?tabid=560&List=0&txtSearch=glove+box&CategoryID=13&Level=a&SortField=6
 
I'll comment on a few topics.  Pricing, etc has been well answered.

Low mileage - if there are no obvious leaks in/around the engine I wouldn't be that concerned.  Some engines have a propensity to leak regardless of the mileage.  The old AMC designed 4.0 L straight six that is in a million Jeeps (including our Rubicon) is notorious for the rear main seal leaking (ours leaks), but it's not really a big deal in the scheme of things.  Having said that, generally I would like to see 2-5,000 miles of use a year and 50-100 hours per year on the gen set.

Moisture between the window panes is very common due to the seal losing integrity.  See the Winnebago Resources sticky post near the top of the Winnebago board for glass repair shops.  Repair costs are reasonable, replacement is expensive (assuming you can find a replacement.)

Rusting front windshield frame - you can non-destructively check some things to evaluate.  Check the black rubber molding around the perimeter of the windshield, especially on the top of the windshield.  Every inch of it should be firmly stuck to the steel frame, if it is lifting up, it might be due to rust on the outside of the frame.  Another telltale would be any rusty spots/streaks/stains on the inside in the windshield area.  You might have to peek and poke carefully around on the inside of overhead cabinets with a flashlight to be certain there are no rust telltales.

Norcold 1200 fridge - no problem.  If the recall fix hasn't been performed, it can be scheduled.  It's a great fridge.

The problems you reported in your original post sound relatively minor and wouldn't be a deal killer to me.  There is a very good PDI checklist in the forum Library to use when you are performing an inspection.
 
The problems you see are typical for a 9 year old rig, and there are less of them than what might be expected for that age. The very low mileage would not be a big concern for me, but it is something to be aware of and maybe have the drive train professionally checked for leakage. I really don't think the engine is going to be a problem, but I would want to look at rear axle seals, transmission seals, brakes, etc. I also suspect the generator hasn't been run enough to keep it healthy. They tend to get damaged from moisture if not run regularly. I would ask to have the generator started and run for at least an hour to make sure it works and will stay working. Two hours would be better.

The asking price is out of sight, but private sellers often have an inflated idea of what their rig is worth. Or a large loan to pay off. Even $55k sounds high for a 2004 Brave. You can buy a 2004 Adventurer (the more upscale gas model Winnie) for  around $50k.
 
The brake recall has been mentioned.
There was also an instrument panel recall for a communication problem between the panel and the ABS system.
The front stabilizer bar was changed from a 2 inch to a 2.5 inch in 9/2/2003. Although my motor home is a 2004, the chassis was made before 9/2/2003. I replaced the 2 inch bar with the 2.5 inch bar and it made a tremendous difference. I would recommend you change it if you get the Brave.
From workhorse;
"The upgraded stabilizer bar has been shown to provide the following
benefits:
1. Reduced Body Roll when cornering.
2. Reduced "rocking" when passed by or passing large vehicles.
3. Reduced "rocking" when traversing bumps on an angle."

The items above are not necessarily negatives but things you might want to know about.

We considered a Brave but found the CCC was about 1200 pounds (as I recall - maybe 1500) and as full timers we needed a lot more.
 
What size Brave were you looking at with the limited CCC?  To be honest, my head is swimming with data and I haven't calculated the CCC.  It will only be me and my 60lb dog - Buddy.  Cargo does add up.

-Eric
 
I wouldn't be at all worried about the engine or generator. I've seen new Siteseers close to that asking price. We bought out 2003 38G Adventurer a year ago for $42,000. It had 26,000 miles on it. I was looking for low mileage as we put on a lot of miles each year. I thought we may have payed too much for it. With the price on that unit I wouldn't even consider it. We were in Quartzsite and now in Yuma. A lot of high end diesel pushers with equivalent mileage and wear are selling for a lot less than that.
 
Most everything has been covered....

I will add a few minor things.

Low retail NADA for a 2004 34D Brave with a Workhorse chassis is $39170. No range. That's it. (MSRP without options was $110,922, someone should have paid about $85,000 plus options when it was new.)

According to the brochure http://www.winnebagoind.com/products/previous-models/2004/pdfs/winnebago/04-Brave-bro.pdf it would be on a W20 chassis (20,700 pound GVWR). And a Norcold 1200 (the 4 door model) was optional on the 34D.

The CCC info should be attached to a closet door in the rear closet (8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper), and in the "big black bag" that will have the CCC (it was CCC not OCCC in 2004) for that exact coach. If it's not there, Winnebago can get it for you with the VIN.







 
Not sure if I got the best deal, but my 13,600 mile, 2003 brave on a ford chassis cost me $39k, and so far i have yet to find a problem with it :)
 
EMan508 said:
What size Brave were you looking at with the limited CCC?  To be honest, my head is swimming with data and I haven't calculated the CCC.  It will only be me and my 60lb dog - Buddy.  Cargo does add up.

-Eric

As I recall we were looking at a 36 footer and I think  it was on a W22 chassis. Our Sightseer is on a W20 chassis and has more CCC than the Brave we looked at on the heaver chassis. More options I guess.
 
I guess this is beating a dead horse, but in this market you should be able to easily find comparable units for 38-45K.  Even though the owner may be willing to bargain, I suspect you would be wasting your time trying to get to a reasonable price if he starts at $70K.  Either (1) he owes at least 60K on it and is just hoping if he prices it high some sucker will offer something close to what he owes, (2) he has no understanding of the current used RV market, or both.

Last summer, I looked at a 2001 Bounder for sale by the original owner, who said that he still owed $70K on it.  Might be true, but he also knew what it was really worth and was selling it for $32K (going to borrow money on his house to make up the difference).
 

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