carpet or laminate?

Van, I want THAT on my floors.  Wonder how much money it would cost to do all the floors.  I would be reluctant to do just one room at a time for fear that the color would never match ...

-- janis

Dawn,
Prior to making your decision to go forward with carpet or laminate, there are a few things to note. 

Our company, which was started in 1976 as a residential and commercial flooring company, made its way into the RV business out of a demand for exactly what you are asking about.  Over that time, we have seen it all - from stain resistant carpets (like Stainmaster Nylon) to high-pressure laminates (like Wilsonart) - and over that time, much has changed within the flooring industry, RV needs aside.

For one, it used to be that if you wanted carpet, it had to be nylon.  Nylon is the most versatile fiber to twist and conform into different shapes and patterns.  The problem is, nylon is very prone to stains without a stain resistant additive like Stainmaster or Anso, and even with such treatments, more likely to fade under direct sunlight than other fiber options.  The twist in the carpet made it desirable though, and thus, marketing machines like DuPont, who used to own Stainmaster, made nylon the top choice.  Until a few years ago, you wouldn't consider anything but stain resistant nylon, but as crude oil prices went up, so too did all the products derived from it.  In this case, you guessed it, nylon carpet.

As such, today's fibers from Karastan and Mohawk combine the twist capacity of many nylons with inherently stain resistant fibers.  These fibers, known to consumers as SmartStrand, are known within the industry as Triexta, a whole new generation of practically stain-proof carpets.  Shaw's comparable product, called Clear Touch, also warrants against everything from Food and Drink Spills to even Pet Stains, for the life of the carpet.  Considering SmartStrand is derived from ethanol and Clear Touch descends from plastic bottle recycling, their price points are lower that nylon options, with better stain resistant amenities built in.  Consider one of these options combined with a moisture resistant, plastic lined padding to also prevent staining from soaking into the padding.

When it comes to laminate, this floor has been re-invented practically in the past couple years.  When it was first introduced by Pergo, it spawned out of popularity amongst renters in Europe, who wanted a floor they could literally take apart and bring with them when they moved on down the road.  As it made its way into America, it was improved upon, strengthened and engineered for better performance.

Laminate is actually a composition of several layers of material, bonded under extreme pressure.  When American companies like Wilsonart re-created the floor, they focused on the top surface - the first line of defense and the most important ingredient in the material.  They used a thick, 17 - 45 mil piece of paper (which is printed on to create the design) on every floor they made.  Upon our companies' request, they even went so far as to warrant RV usage under any slideout we installed their floor under.

As the Chinese entered the market in recent years though, much has changed.  They diluted the marketplace with "thick" material with razor thin (generally around 6 mil paper) top surface layers at less than half the price of most competitors.  The problem is, this is your first line of defense, and for a floor designed to repel water, imagine spilling a drink on your desk.  Your bills get soaked and when they dry, the edges wrinkle up.  At the same time, those thick, glossy business cards that also got wet maintained their rigidity and shape as the water ran right off.  Now imagine how this same top surface performs on a laminate floor - it does the same thing, warping edges, beveling boards, etc.

Today, Wilsonart is out of the flooring business and most companies still around have lowered their standards to compete with the Asian product mix.  So, when it comes to laminate, buyer beware!

The best product for you to consider would likely be Luxury Vinyl Tile (or Planks), which are composed of a vinyl base and made to look like tile or wood (just like laminate).  Due to the ability to carve texture into these products, the look is much more authentic and slip resistant, and best of all, because it is vinyl, it can literally withstand a bucket of water being poured on it routinely.  These floors can also generally be glued down to the sub-floor, unlike laminate, which is intended to be floated, with trim pieces holding it down around the perimeter of the area.

As for what is best, you have some good options before you. I would recommend a combination of both, as it would cater itself to your desires for comfort and maintenance.

Grant - thanks for the comprehensive post! Since you have a lot of experience I have a question about carpeting. We bought a fairly inexpensive area rug and cut it to fit the living area. The main problem is that I use a wheelchair and tight turns of the wheels pull fibers out and also cause matting. We would like to buy a better quality carpeting but aren't sure what we should be looking for. I've noticed that commercial carpeting in hotel lobbies and casinos holds up really well to all of the traffic. What type of carpet is used and could we buy it?  A scrap or end of the roll would be fine since we don't need a very large piece. 

Go to a full serviceretail flooring store. Ask if the have any commercial remnants. They could also be full service and bind the edges, for a small price per linear foot.

My hubby wants to use bed liner across the floors and up the walls before we install new cabinets and then add bed liner to the toe kicks.  He feels it will absorb sound and let him hose the floors down.

I'm not sure how I feel about that one.  Currently it has a commercial grade carpet that is in good shape and if it survives the gutting and redoing then we'll live with that.

My choice is laminate and if I want a carpet I'll do one I can take out.  That way I can change it if I get tired of what I have.

This has been a fascinating thread to read!

8)  KAS

tonyandkaren said:

Grant - thanks for the comprehensive post! Since you have a lot of experience I have a question about carpeting. We bought a fairly inexpensive area rug and cut it to fit the living area. The main problem is that I use a wheelchair and tight turns of the wheels pull fibers out and also cause matting. We would like to buy a better quality carpeting but aren't sure what we should be looking for. I've noticed that commercial carpeting in hotel lobbies and casinos holds up really well to all of the traffic. What type of carpet is used and could we buy it?  A scrap or end of the roll would be fine since we don't need a very large piece. 

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Tony and Karen,
I can truly empathize with you and your needs.

We are currently in the process of raising money and donations for my Uncle, who is paralyzed from his shoulders down.  He was injured playing football for the Big Red at the University of Nebraska in the 1970s.  Now, as his medical bills have piled up, his friends have grouped their efforts together to build him and his family a boundary-free home in Omaha, NE.  For more info on him, check out his website, http://www.budgeporter.com.

Anyway, as for your issue in your RV...
Most cheap area rugs are made with less expensive and more volatile fibers to keep the cost of the area rug down. 

The carpets used in hotel lobbies are a little more unique than most carpet.  Manufacturers like Stanton Carpets and Kane Carpets, who make much of the carpet used in Vegas, are generally using a very short and very densely twisted, "Royaltron" or "Eurolon" fiber to manufacturer their carpets.  These fibers are similar in that they both are synthetic fibers which use high heat to "heatset" the tight twist used in their carpet, as well as a dyeing process called "solution dyeing", which is where the color of the carpet is engrained in the fiber rather than topically added after the carpet has been made.  As such, you have a stronger twist combined with a carpet dye that is engrained into the fiber, thus making it less prone to stain, show dirt / traction, or fade under direct sunlight.  While we offer both of these fibers from Stanton and Kane, the cost of their products is generally a little steep, generally ranging from $5.00 - $18.00 s.f.  With that being said, Kane has a program where any carpet they offer in that fiber is available for $14.99 sf if made into an Area Rug, patterned centered and bound.  I don't want to take this pricing thing any further as I am not supposed to advertise on here, but my intent is simply to give you an idea of where pricing falls for that style of carpet.

If you are looking for better performance in common carpet lines, much of that is contingent on the quality of the fiber selected, the density of the carpet, and the style of twist used to create the carpet.

As for quality, I'd look at nylon, particularly, Stainmaster's Type 6-6 Nylon or Anso Nylon from Shaw.  Stainmaster's products are made of a form of nylon, called Type 6-6, which have the ability to twist tighter and set under higher heat than most traditional nylons.  Anso uses a "crossbond technology" to make their carpet, which basically used fine fibers as the core of the twist, only to be reinforced by a stronger twisted fiber that wraps around the soft, fine fibers to create a more rigid twist.  As a result, both of these styles of nylon are twisted tightly and less apt to open / fray in high traffic areas.

With that being said, you want to focus on thicker, low cut carpets for more durability.  Figure, with less height, there is less gravitational pull, and thus, less propensity to fall over, open up, and fray.

Lastly, with a wheel chair, I would also avoid loosely looped carpets, which can snag and run the width of the carpet.  If you go with a "berber" style, or a looped style of carpet, choose one that is tight, and tough to get you finger nails under.  You will be better served.

Keep in mind that these styles of nylon are generally topically dyed, and while nylon carpets are better for durability, they are a little more prone to staining than some other synthetic fibers.  At the same time, most "stain-proof" synthetic fibers fall short on durability.  It's a Catch-22, but knowing what is most important for your needs will better serve you down the line.

KAS said:

My hubby wants to use bed liner across the floors and up the walls before we install new cabinets and then add bed liner to the toe kicks.  He feels it will absorb sound and let him hose the floors down.

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While I can't speak to hosing down the floors, I can tell you that we use spray in bed liners quite a bit, particularly on the Engine Covers, to deaden the sound and reduce the heat emitted by most gas engines.  Once the carpet is pulled and the Engine Cover is cleared of any staples, screws, etc., we spray on a Bed Liner, let it dry, and then cover it with a new piece of carpet to complete the flooring job.

The end result is that the cover is sealed better than before, and with carpet installed over it, it remains aesthetically pleasing to look at.

Ours is a diesel engine, and diesel generators.  We want to deaden the noise for sure!  Hubby also is talking about a rubber mat material we have that he is considering installing in a large sheet over the bed liner.  I've no idea how this will be to live with but hubby says it comes in colors other than black.

I told him I like blue, he is skeptical. LOL!

But carpet I do not want.  8)

KAS

Grant - Thanks for the additional information! It will be very helpful when we get  replacement carpeting.

The house that you're having built for your Uncle looks great!

We replaced all the carpets in our house with bamboo hardwood floors because it doesn't collect the dirt as much and is easier to keep clean than carpet for us. We have laminate in the MH and it looks great and it is much easier to clean for us. On our maiden trip we discovered having the laminate floors was nice because we tracked in plenty of dirt and rocks from outside so we could quickly sweep it out the door. Everyone has there preference, it is yours so do with it as you like.

Josh

Great thread! I'm looking for non-toxic products and would like to install a wood floating floor. Does anyone have experience with those products?

I think Carpet in bedroom and living room area is quite ok. But other area like kitchen area must be laminated.

How do you allow for a slide-out when going from carpet to laminate?

what kind of rv do you have?

Fifty4F100 said:

How do you allow for a slide-out when going from carpet to laminate?

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Was wondering the same thing. We have a 2005 Dolphin LX.

I have a fibre optic inspection camera that allows me to see how these slides are made

Are your slides flush with the floor when extended?? If so, pull it part way in and look underneath using a light. Some roll onto the carpet with long nylon or plastic rollers, others slide across the carpet on plastic "glides". Mine, a flush floor system,  has rollers so I simply put a hardwood edge along the outside edge of the laminated flooring to prevent damage to the laminate  and tapered it down a bit to help the roller ride up onto the floor.

With the plastic glides I think that could be problematic and is likely to damage any laminate.

Ernie Ekberg said:

I have a fibre optic inspection camera that allows me to see how these slides are made

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Ernie, you just like to show off the new tools! 

bingo66 said:

I replaced the carpet with Polyflor Camaro vinyl wood effect planking and tiles with a feature strip in between. Got the idea for a "Ships planking" effect from looking through luxury yacht magazines.

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Bingo i really like what you did, do you have anymore pictures ou would like to share or send me? [email protected]

I have a question about how you were able to extend the vinly up onto your slide and keep the clean edge of the old carpet on your slide.
Or am i wrong and you only did the floor and not your slide?

My husband and I just installed 3/8 strand bamboo in my RV. Love it! Because of my disability I had to remove or seal anything that off gasses toxins. Synthetic materials like laminate and synthetic carpets all do. I had my husband install organic wool carpet in the cab, because he had to remove the doghouse cover to do it. I opted for bamboo in the coach as all fibers trap and hold toxins, including VOCs and dirt. It's wonderfully easy to clean. ;D