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Author Topic: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??  (Read 15770 times)

UK-RV

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Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« on: June 08, 2006, 05:42:39 PM »
Hi Guys

Can any of your help us (RVers in the UK) with a little enquiry :-

If you have one of the following RVs (ideally the latest version) we need to know how WIDE the vehicle is :

The Width needs to measure everything including the awnings, grab rail etc but NOT the mirrors.

Can you let us know if your RV is over 100.39 inches or 2.55 metres wide please.

And then, could you let us know the width of just the body but NOT the awnings, mirrors etc.

It would be really good to help us when we come to register our vehicles in the UK.

Thanks
Paul

Here's the list :-

Coachmen      Aurora 3580 TS
Coachmen      Concord 235 SO 1-slide
Coachmen      Concord 275 DS 2-slide
Coachmen      Concord 300 ts
Coachmen      Mirada 29 KS 1-slide
Coachmen      Mirada 310 DS
Coachmen      Mirada 330 DS
Coachmen      Mirada 358 TS 3-slides
Coachmen      Ramp + Camp 295 TH
Damon      Challenger 315
Damon      Challenger 328
Damon      Challenger 329
Damon      Challenger 335
Damon      Challenger 348
Damon      Daybreak 2750 LE
Damon      Daybreak 2960
Damon      Daybreak 3062
Damon      Daybreak 3270
Damon      Daybreak 3275
Damon      Daybreak 3285
Damon      Escaper 3977
Damon      Escaper 3979
Damon      Intruder 369
Damon      Intruder 373
Damon      Intruder 374
Damon      Intruder 378
Damon      Intruder 390
Damon      Intruder 391
Damon       Astoria 3465†
Damon       Astoria 3579 †
Damon       Astoria 3595 †
Damon       Astoria 3679
Damon       Astoria 3773
Damon       Daybreak 3060
Damon       Daybreak 3272
Damon       Daybreak 3274
Forest River      Charleston 400 TS
Forest River      Forester 2651S
Forest River      Forester 3101S
Forest River      Georgetown 370GT/375GT
Forest River      Georgetown 400TS/400QS
Forest River      Lexington 210GTS
Forest River      Lexington 235S
Forest River      Lexington 255DS
Forest River      Lexington 270S
Forest River      Lexington 283TS
Forest River      Sunseeker 2160S
Forest River      Sunseeker 2200
Forest River      Sunseeker 2450S
Forest River      Sunseeker 2600S
Forest River      Sunseeker 2860DS
Forest River      Sunseeker 2900
Forest River      Sunseeker 2940DS
Forest River      Sunseeker 3100SS
Four Winds      Citation 21BC
Four Winds      Citation 23BA
Four Winds      Citation 24BB
Four Winds      Citation 26BE
Four Winds      Citation 28BD
Four Winds      Citation 29G
Four Winds      Funmover 27C
Four Winds      Funmover 31C
Four Winds      Funmover 33C
Four Winds      Funmover 34C
Four Winds      Funmover 35C
Four Winds      Hurricane 30F
Four Winds      Hurricane 30Q
Four Winds      Hurricane 31D
Four Winds      Hurricane 31H
Four Winds      Hurricane 32R
Four Winds      Hurricane 33H
Four Winds      Hurricane 34N
Four Winds      Windsport 32R
Four Winds      Windsport 34A
Four Winds      Windsport 34N
Four Winds      Windsport 34W
Four Winds      Windsport 35D
Four Winds      Windsport 35W
Four Winds      Windsport 36A
Four Winds      Windsport 36E
Four Winds      Windsport 36K
Four Winds      Windsport 36Z
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Cruisemaster 2905
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Cruisemaster 3205 GL 1-slide
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Cruisemaster 3512 GL 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Landau 2135 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Landau 2450 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Landau 3525 3-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Maverick 260 SO
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Pursuit 2970 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Pursuit 3180 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing   Pursuit 3500 2-slides
Gulf Stream      BT Cruiser 5250 2-slides
Gulf Stream      BT Cruiser 5290 2-slides
Gulf Stream      Crescendo 8356 2-slides
Gulf Stream      Crescendo 8386 2-slides
Gulf Stream      Enduramax
Gulf Stream      Independence 1-slide
Gulf Stream      Sunvoyager 8295 3-slides
Gulf Stream      Sunvoyager 8357 3-slides
Gulf Stream      Sunvoyager 8379 3-slides
Gulf Stream      Vista Mini 1-slide
Gulf stream    BT Cruiser 5270 1-slide
Holiday Rambler   Admiral SE 33ft PBD 2-slides
Holiday Rambler   Admiral SE 37ft PCT 3-slides
Holiday Rambler   Vacationer 34ft SBD 2-slides
Holiday Rambler   Vacationer 37ft PST 3-slides
Mandalay      Presidio 39A
Mandalay      Presidio 39B
Mandalay      Presidio 39C
Mandalay      Valencia 36A
Mandalay      Valencia 38C
Monaco      Camelot 38ft PDQ 4-slides
Monaco      Cayman 34ft SBD 2-slides
Monaco      Cayman 36ft PDQ 4-slides
Monaco      Diplomat 38ft PDQ 3-slides
Monaco      Knight 38ft PDQ 4-slides
Monaco      Le Palma Diesel 36 WBS
Monaco      Windsor 38ft PST 3-slides
R-Vision      Trail-Aire Silhouette 281
R-Vision      Trail-Aire Silhouette 321
R-Vision      Trail-Aire Silhouette 351/352
R-Vision      Trail-lite 213
R-Vision      Trail-lite 214
R-Vision      Trail-lite 225
R-Vision      Trail-lite 235-S
R-Vision      Trail-lite 236-S
R-Vision      Trail-lite 241
R-Vision      Trail-lite 25 RKG slide out
R-Vision      Trail-lite 25 SB
R-Vision      Trail-lite 25 SR slide out
R-Vision      Trail-lite 251
R-Vision      Trail-lite 252 DS
R-Vision      Trail-lite 26 SG slide out
R-Vision      Trail-lite 27 1-slide out
R-Vision      Trail-lite 28 QS 2-slides
R-Vision      Trail-lite 281 2-slides
R-Vision      Trail-lite 285
R-Vision      Trail-lite 29 RQ
R-Vision      Trail-lite 290
R-Vision      Trail-lite 31 SL slide out
R-Vision      Trail-lite 321 2-slides
Safari      Cheetah 36ft PDD 2-slides
Safari      Cheetah 38ft PDQ 4-slides
Safari      Trek 27 RB
Safari      Trek 29 RBD 2-slides
Winnebago      Adventurer 33V 2-slides
Winnebago      Adventurer 35A 3-slides
Winnebago      Adventurer 35U 2-slides
Winnebago      Adventurer 38J 3-slides
Winnebago      Adventurer 38T 2-slides
Winnebago      Aspect 23D 1-slide
Winnebago      Aspect 26A 1-slide
Winnebago      Aspect 29H 2-slides
Winnebago      Brave
Winnebago      Journey 32T 2-slides
Winnebago      Journey 34H 2-slides
Winnebago      Journey 36G 2-slides
Winnebago      Journey 39K 3-slides
Winnebago      Minnie Winnie 30 2-slides
Winnebago      Outlook 27 2-slides
Winnebago      View 23H 1-slide
Winnebago      View 23J 1-slide
Winnebago Itasca   Cambria 23D
Winnebago Itasca   Cambria 26A
Winnebago Itasca   Cambria 29H
Winnebago Itasca   Navion 23H
Winnebago Itasca   Navion 23J

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2006, 06:17:00 PM »
That's a tall order Paul, but hopefully some folks can provide the info. Do you have a large caliper we can use? Last time I saw a caliper that approached anything that size was when I worked at British Steel in the 60's.

FWIW there's something not right with one of the Monaco numbers. FYI the 'Q' in PDQ means quad slide and 'T' in PST means triple slide. So the Monaco  Diplomat 38ft PDQ can't be 3-slides, although I think it's irrelevant to the overall width since both the 'Q' and 'T' versions will have at least one slide on each side. The other data point you might need in all this would be model year - I don't know if dimensions change from year to year. In the case of Beaver, their trademark flush slideouts have changed for 2006 and are now outside the main body like the rest of the Monaco line. That probably adds an inch to the total body width.

If you don't get any/many responses, you could also contact the manufacturers and they'd probably supply actual dimensional drawings. When you call, ask for tech support. However, I'm not sure they'd send the same person lots of drawings of all their models, but the tech very well might give you the info you need right over the phone. I've found Monaco to be particularly helpful in this respect. Their web site with contact info is Monaco Coach Corporation.

FYI Monaco also makes Holiday Rambler, Safari and Beaver since they bought out the three companies and consolidated all the manufacturing into existing Monaco factories.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 06:22:16 PM by Tom »
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UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2006, 09:18:05 PM »
 ;D - I dont think the calipers are needed, just a tape measure would do.

Oh, Im not asking you all to run around campgrounds with tape and list to hand - just to measure your own coach if it's on the list and you have the spare 5 mins.

Regarding the list, I didn't actually read thru the list checking for errors, as it's the official list used by UK Government agencies† :o :o

Thanks go to Mick for obtaining the list from them - a list they originally denied existed.

Just to explain - this list is for US RVs which have PASSED clearance for registration in the UK, even though it seems only around 5% have actually been examined.

Im simply trying to find out how much over the legal width these coaches are - as I expect at least 95% to be way over.

BTW, the idea of contacting the manufacturers would be fine except that Fleetwood, for instance, list the Expedition at 'maximum 102"' when I measured ours at 99" - their version would be illegal in the UK and my measurement legal.† ::)

Thanks
Paul

John From Detroit

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2006, 09:54:18 PM »
I will try and measure my Intruder tomorrow when the sun is in the sky   It is a 377, but the width should go across the line
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2006, 10:45:35 PM »
Paul,

Don't know when we'll be at our Monaco to be able to measure it. This is our summer boating season and we're not doing too much RVing right now.
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Mick & Pat

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2006, 04:35:39 AM »
Here is a posting off the American RV Magazine forum by one of its members who thought he'd done everything 'by the book' :(

JIMBO say's

Quote
In Feb this year I bought a 29R Itasca Sunova from Lazy Days in the USA. Checked on width and as Dudley's were selling the same model thought it must be OK and arranged shipping. It arrived mid April and was refused registration by DVLA as it was 20mm too wide, not including the awnings They are measuring the width on the lateral points (not including wing mirrors) Winnebago give the exact flat side flat side width, not including awnings and slide awning as 2.492m i.e. 8mm under width. I have written to DVLA with a list of grievances, mainly that the dealers are still selling big vehicles and are still in business and still getting vehicles registered. The Policy Group at DVLA replied but only quoted the Construction of road use act and ignored all the references to dealers and that some DVLA offices are still registering vehicles, i.e.,  "not all singing from the same hymn sheet" When my RV went on the boat the DVLA were registering them, now they decide to add, the including handle, awnings etc but not make this information public. I believe the list that the DVLA used was taken from MMM magazine, which does not give accurate figures. As another member pointed out if you RV was on the list then you were OK, now not the case
A Winnebago Sightseer 34 foot is on the list but the DVLA say that even if your vehicle is on the list they will still measure it and take photos in case you have taken off the awnings etc and then put them back on. If you are then stopped by VOSA, the new transport agency they can refer to the original photo and prosecute you. My RV is going back to the USA next week and I proposed to travel with it over there. I am still pursuing the DVLA for answers to my original complaint and depending on their reply I may seek legal advice with a view to take the DVLA to court for failing to implement the law across the whole of the country. I am new to RVís and have had an expensive lesson on things that can go wrong.

In addition to Paul's request I to would be very interested in just a few measurings just to see how they compair with those put out by the manufacturer.
May I thank all those in advance in providing such information. :) :) :)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 09:24:50 AM by Mick »
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

JohnSandyWhite

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2006, 05:37:50 AM »
Don't think I'm going to bother with our Newmar. Thinking of shipping it to Spain and parking on a piece of land. Just bought a small camper to journey around in.  ::)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 05:45:50 AM by JohnSandyWhite »
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

Mick & Pat

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2006, 09:08:30 AM »
I am about to ask what initially you may think is a stupid question ::), How do you accurately measure an RV ???  if you stop and think it isn't that stupid. :)

At the moment here in the UK the DVLA appear to be operating a zero tolerance measuring operation of imported American motorhomes so being 1cm out could cost the owner thousands of £££'s or $$$$'s  :(

In one thread on another forum I have read that the DVLA inspectors may be using plumb lines.

If that is the case I believe you would need at least 6 persons :o to get an accurate measurement, one at each end of the plumb line on BOTH sides and two to measure the distance between the two lines at each end of the RV.

Don't forget BOTH plumb lines would have to be parallel to each other and touching the RVs widest points to get an accurate measurement.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 02:05:31 PM by Mick »
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2006, 05:37:17 PM »
Don't forget BOTH plumb lines would have to be parallel to each other....

Mick, if they weren't parallel to each other, they wouldn't both be plumb. I still think a giant caliper is the best bet.

How do the DVLA folks make the measurement?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 10:02:22 AM by Tom »
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JohnSandyWhite

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2006, 04:16:34 AM »
In one thread on another forum I have read that the DVLA inspectors may be using plumb lines.

 ??? I think that could just be a rumour/myth/legend? As you say. Too complicated and takes too many people. I have had 2 contact me and had their's measured. Once with and one without awnings attached. I just don't fancy taking ALL my awnings off.  :'(
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2006, 05:52:59 AM »
Hi my brave has a ledge on top of the rear lights, so I laid a piece if wood across the back on top of these and sighted down each side of the RV, marked it and measured, allowing for slides but not wheel flairs or the drip rail over the basement lockers, its 100.37" 2mm under on width.

Not exactly scientific but I think its fairly accurate, begs the question how do Dudley's import them without taking the wheel flairs and drip rails of?

Olley

Mick & Pat

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2006, 07:21:55 AM »
Not exactly scientific but I think its fairly accurate, begs the question how do Dudley's import them without taking the wheel flairs and drip rails of?
Olley

Olley,

Dudley's latest full page full colour advertisement in the UK American RV Magazine feature both the 2006 Winnebago Vectra and Tour models......... Now the DVLA 'list' clearly places ALL Winnebago Tour & Vectra models in the OVERSIZED list none in the approved list.  Must have friends in high places???????
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2006, 01:14:59 AM »

Hi Mick, JSW & Olley

I believe the reason that the dealers are able to register their imports is because they have registered as "responsible" import dealers and have been issued with all the relevant forms to do the registration themsleves "as long as they have a safe place to store the forms".

That information is readily available online - I cant remember exactly where at the moment but I will dig it out.

So, they can register the vehicles no problem - it only becomes an offense when you actually drive the vehicle.

Paul

PS - this will make you laugh - as we will have our UK car and the RV when we get back (and nothing set-up for towing) I am even looking at the legislation surrounding the movement of "wide loads". For the limited UK miles we would be driving, we could place a "wide load" sign on the back of the RV and Ann-Marie could drive the Fiesta as the escort vehicle. Simple really isnt it !! At least then I could leave the awnings in place.

Mick & Pat

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2006, 03:54:09 AM »
Paul,

I've seen the web site you are on about the below link isn't it is it?

http://tinyurl.com/nj9a9   Sorry Paul just read the web site again and it's for imports from EU countries.......  Doh ::)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2006, 11:03:54 AM by Mick »
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

Mick & Pat

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2006, 06:17:05 AM »
Just to get the ball rolling,

A British Monaco Cayman 36 PDQ owner Dick Kingswell has just measured his RV and found it's width to be the same as on the DVLA list.

Width 2.55m wall to wall not including awnings and slide-out toppers so have ALL the American RVs on the DVLA list been presented for inspection with their awnings,handles & slide-out toppers removed?


Length was 37'-02"  same as DVLA list.
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2006, 02:37:45 PM »
Hi Mick

No, thats not the one.

The one Im refering to is the "Automated First Registration and Licensing (AFRL) system."

Take a look at section 10 on form V100 (the form is too large to attch here).

I will find the url and add it later - here it is http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/vehicles/vehicle_forms/v100.pdf

This system appears to apply for new registrations only, so Im not sure how they manage with oversized used vehicles they're selling.

Regards
Paul

Just thought of something else - you could always do your Freedom Of Information trick again and see if the dealers are registered for that scheme - you could even ask for a list of vehicles (not keepers) registered in past 6 months by the dealer using AFRL - it would certainly explain things wouldn't it.

BUT, I still stand by my statement made to you before - what will any of this achieve. It would perhaps cause the dealers a lot of grief but would it change the law to allow us all to import wider RVs - I doubt it.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2006, 03:25:23 PM by UK-RV »

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2006, 04:04:04 PM »
OK - here goes - how about this solution ;D :-

Firstly, your RV does need to be under 100.39" body width - not including removable awnings etc as they are to be classed as a "load".

In my case, if I wish to register (and have measured) the RV in Bristol, all I need do is email the Abnormal Load Officer 2 days prior to driving in Avon & Somerset Police area.

I simply advise him that I intend to drive my vehicle with attached load (removable awnings etc) of (say) 5" extra width, between A and B.

If he doesnt reply, you can drive the vehicle OK.

If the vehicle is less than 4.6m wide, in line with National Standards, you dont need an escort vehicle - just a couple of signs on the "load".

I cant see how the Testing Station can then fail your RV, nor can you be stopped and proscecuted along the way.

See - it is simple really.† ;D

Paul

Of course, it would be fun contacting every Police force for a UK tour.


Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2006, 04:20:52 PM »
Sounds like a creative solution Paul. Let's hope it works OK for you.
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Mick & Pat

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2006, 04:24:19 PM »
Paul,

You ask what I hope to achieve?

Well at the moment Monaco say their Diplomat (for example) is 100.5" wide,the US dealer could also measure it at 100.5" and provide a statement to that effect, if I measure it and get 100.5" and the DVLA list gives 2.55m.

But if when you arrive in the UK and the DVLA decide to do a random inspection and its OVER 2.55m does all the above evidence over rule the measurement??


So the answer is some way of getting a guarantee that if an RV is on the list the DVLA will honour it.
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2006, 09:01:46 PM »
Mick

I understand what you are trying to achieve, but until they change the maximum width Law, you will ALWAYS face a problem.

The list you obtained is full of errors and will, at some point, be overuled and replaced - what with, who knows !

The other problem with the List is that you may be able to import your vehicle (which is currently OK on the list) but when you later come to sell it, the list may have been updated and your vehicle is suddenly banned.

When it comes time to update the paperwork with new owner details, what's to say the vehicle isnt called for re-inspection.

I just hope you sell the coach to a little bloke with no nasty friends, as I wouldnt fancy someone coming after me for a hundred grand, thinking Ive ripped him off.

Paul



olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2006, 06:56:44 PM »
Hi Dick kingswell has just posted this on the ARVM site:

Quote
Treating the additional awnings as 'load' would seem to be the answer - as long as the base vehicle is 2.55 metres or under. 

As long as your 'load' does not project more than 305mm (12inches) beyond the width of the vehicle (or as long as your vehicle + load is not greater than 2.9 metres (9ft 5ins)) you do not need to either sign it (little red/white triangles) or notify the Police.

(Authority - once again  -  The Official DSA Syllabus for driving Goods Vehicles 2002 edn).

So - buyer beware - as long as your base vehicle is 2.55 metres or less you can 'widen' it by up to 12 inches to a maximum of 2.9 metres without fear or failure of being stopped.

Problem solved  !!!!!  as long as your base vehicle is 2.55metres or less  !!!!!


Dick
[unquote]

Seems even better.

Olley

olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 03:48:22 AM »
Hi Patduff on ARVM has suggested that if we carry a "Load" we could be classed as an HGV with all that entails, ie. tacho, "O" licence ect. any thoughts on this?

Olley

JohnSandyWhite

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2006, 04:25:38 AM »
 :) If that is true as suggested (ie: carrying a load)? Then I will be a VERY happy bunny.† ;D

I wouldn't mind being classed as an HGV (MFU Mutual insurance already did that before I changed insurance company), If that then meant I could legally register our Newmar without all the hassle of taking the Awnings off? The tachometer meter and other such, would not really be a problem. Who drives for more than 10 hours a day in an RV or don't stop every so often for a meal break? I have been known to drive for 19 1/2 hours non-stop in the past. But not now I'm retired.† ;D
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 04:31:44 AM by JohnSandyWhite »
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2006, 06:49:11 AM »
Hi Jsw been thinking about this  :o we already carry a "Load" ie. water, clothes, maybe bikes on the back, so what the difference with awnings on the side?

I assume that a "Load" has to be removable but is this defined in law? A HGV carries "Goods" for hire or reward, we don't.

Olley

Mick & Pat

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    • Thiswilldous
Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2006, 10:39:21 AM »
Olley,

I have seen that posting on ARVM and posted my own.

Basically you would have to carry the goods for hire and reward to require an operators licence.

The chap on ARVM also starts calling RVers hauliers how he works that one out  ??? ???

Eddie Stowbart is a haulier NOT John, Mary, Fluffy the dog in their Winnebago  ;D ;D

Eddie Stowbart for our American friends  is a large UK trucking company that most Brits would know the name of.
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2006, 10:58:17 AM »

Hi Guys

When investigating this option, there are several mentions of a car (and car with trailer etc) carrying a heavy load.

The "load" being refered to is actually an "abnormal load". This is defined as a load which cannot be practically or cost-effecively split between 2 vehicles.

I would think it easy to show that the cost to remove/replace the awning (lets say £200) would not be cost-effective against the total cost of the "load" (awning at £1000 or less).

I cant seem to access ARVM (I subscribe to mag but dont have subscriber info for site), so please keep me informed as to progress.

Thanks

Paul

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2006, 11:13:47 AM »
.... we could be classed as an HGV with all that entails...

Olley,

Does that mean you'd need a HGV licence? IIRC John and Paul both have HGV licences, but what would that mean for prospective motorhomers who don't have a HGV licence?

BTW what is "tacho, "O" licence". I've been away from the UK too long.
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olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2006, 01:05:40 PM »
Hi Tom the power's that be (DVLA) have already decided that over 7.5 tons we need a "C" licence, unfortunately they can't show the law that backs them up, so up till now no RVer has ever been prosecuted.

We have two HGV licences in the UK a "C" and "C+E" a "C" is any weight rigid up to the maximum allowed (32 tonnes?) and a "C+E" which allows you to drive an Articulated Lorry (44 tonnes) you have to pass the "C" before you can take the "C+E" cost for a 1 week course is about £1000.00 for each licence. (I have just done the "C") You must also pass a medical and if over 45 you have to have another one every 5 years up to 70 then I think its yearly.

All vehicles in these groups have to have Tachograph fitted, (except for some exempt cat. Rv's are one) this is a recording device to show how many hours you have been driving. An HGV drivers hours are rigidly controlled in Britain and all of Europe. Typically a max. of 9 hours driving per day.

To operate an HGV you need an "O" or operaters licence, this covers such things as where the vehicle is to be kept when not working, servicing etc.

If the Law was changed to include Rv's over 7.5 tonnes needing a "C" licence, then quite a few Rver's would have a problem, especially the older ones as the medical is quite strict.

Hope that's understanderable, I have rambled on a bit sorry.

Olley
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 01:12:40 PM by olley »

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2006, 01:19:41 PM »
Thanks Olley. Appreciate the explanation.
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UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2006, 08:10:39 PM »

Olley

Congrats on passing the test.

If I understood it correctly, you cannot tow a car/trailer behind a HGV - you need a C+E for that.

Have you come across that too ?

Thanks
Paul

olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2006, 04:02:59 AM »
Hi Paul if the GVW of the trailer is over 750kg then yes, seems barmy to me, I can tow my trailer+car 1300kg behind my old kentucky camp 3500kg but pass my "C" and I can't behind my Brave 9250kg.  >:(

I believe only the french axioms have GVW under 750kg so they could be towed on an "A" frame but that's another can of worms.  :-\

I intend to take the "C+E" later this year or next, as I think that sooner or later they will sort the licences out. Their's a load of new regs. going through the European Parliament at the moment, for implementation in about 2 or 3 years.

olley

Mick & Pat

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    • Thiswilldous
Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2006, 09:27:10 AM »
Paul,

This has been posted on the ARVM forum this morning in a thread titled : RV's & the DVLA.
Quote
Hi everyone who has contributed to this thread,

I have measured my Brave as Paul Dudley instructed, i.e. open the driver and passenger windows and pull the tape across and then deduct the thickness of the rubber seals, it is (within a nats whisker) 100".  Legal, I am pleased to say.  Forget what the brochure says.

Paul said that in the jurisdiction that he works, he is not having any problems whatsoever with registering new Winnies, and they are all measured for clarity, to and for, one and all.  So they are legal too.

He went on to say they are measured flat wall to flat wall.  Forget all the bull about handles, awnings, toppers, etc., the authorities have to be realistic and sensible (not always possible I guess!!) and that it is patently unnecessary to remove peripheral bits and pieces as the authorities know they will be refitted.  It is all about having a proper, honest and professional relationship with the authorities with which you work.

If JIMBO would like to contact Paul or Chris at Dudleys, they will help him with UK registration if they can, without any prejudice.

However, the matter is still in quite a delicate stage with so much goings on between all sorts of authorities.  It is important (personally speaking) that no-one (I mean us, RV owners etc.) does anything to antagonise the situation.  I believe the 'professional' dealers are doing their bit as I said in an earlier post and that fingers crossed (everything crossed actually), all will be sorted in due course.  I may be proved wrong though!!

So, if you have an RV already registered and on the road, I don't think you will have any problems.  However, if you are importing one from the USA, you may find your local DVLA may or may not be obliging!  Depends on where you live.

Hope this will help someone out there, even if it is only to sleep!

Richard

JIMBO's earlier posting within the same thread on ARVM is shown on page one of this thread.
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

2005 Fleetwood Discovery 39S,Cat C7, Freightliner XC Chassis  2008 Jeep Liberty Ltd 3.7 .

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2006, 11:13:27 AM »
Thanks Olley,

It is crazy that you can drive a 30T vehicle on a C, but cannot drive an 8T plus 2500kg car.



Thanks Mick,

It would be good if you can measure from window to window - but the statements Jimbo was told by the authorities do seem to conflict with those of Dudley's.

Dudleys made the comment of 'dont rock the boat' which could be to save their skin, or hopefully will be as stated to calm the whole thing down and hope it loses some of the high profile it is getting with the authorities.

We will just have to watch what happens over the next few months.

Unfortunately, for those of us currently in the US, there is nothing we can do as anything could happen the day prior to our import - we can only investigate those other options like the 'load' etc.

Thanks
Paul

olley

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2006, 11:46:30 AM »
hi paul I am a bit sceptical about jimbo's post, he didn't try very hard to get registered, and he seemed to be shipping it back almost before he got here.

He's only ever made one post on the forum and that was it.† :-\

Olley
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 11:48:22 AM by olley »

cwalshaw

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ?? UPDATE?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2007, 11:04:11 AM »
Has anyone got any very recent experience/updates on the width problem. My Fleetwood Terra 27 feet long and according to the manufacturers spec 102" wide without awning. It's currently in storage in the US, so I cannot measure the actuals as you have been discussing.
Has there been any slackening of the rules?
Colin

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2007, 03:23:11 PM »
Colin,

Hopefully Paul will see your question and respond. My understanding was that folks like Paul were considering registering their coaches in Ireland as a back door. I wasn't sure if that was the north or Eire.
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cwalshaw

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2007, 06:36:30 AM »
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the reply, I had also thought about Spain or Portugal ( they might not be as rectal retentive as the Brits). I will be stableing it on the Continent anyway, so apart from language problems with the paperwork it could work out. Has anyone tried this?
Colin

UK-RV

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2007, 07:15:00 AM »
Hi Colin

Not too much has changed since June last year.

The UK RVDA (Recreational Vehicle Dealers Association) have been having "productive" (their word) meetings with the DVLA in Bristol.

They claim that good news will be forthcoming in "very, very early 2007" (their words again).

You could take a look at their website (www.uk-rvda.co.uk) which they promoted to everyone in the December issue of the ARV Magazine to get an idea of their professional standard of work !!

In mid-December, their "press spokesman" stated on the ARVM forum that the website would be upgraded within "a couple of weeks" (their words again) - so we will see.

You could take a look at Itchyfeets related website at Roamin-Times to read what the RVDA and Itchyfeet have to say on the Registration issue.

There you will read that RVs are exempt from C&U - but contact the RVDA, DVLA or even Itchyfeet and you will see they are NOT (currently) exempt at all - but they wont remove the statement from their website (together with other "untruths").

I hope they do manage to come up with something, but in the meantime Im chasing my own solutions.

Regards
Paul


« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 07:20:03 AM by UK-RV »

cwalshaw

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2007, 11:46:47 AM »
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the current heads up!
I am also scrambling around, so lets keep each other updated.
I have contacted Fleetwood in the USA and hopefully will get some feedback from them. I have seen some rigs on the same chassis as mine advertised on the web, so if they are the same width somebody knows a way round this.
 I am also going to the Caravan & Motorhome Show @ the GMEX in Manchester next week to see what I can smiff out.
Will stay on the case.
Colin

Tom

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Re: Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2007, 12:17:17 PM »
Colin,

Please let us know what you find out so we can pass it along to others who follow you. TIA.
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