Towing

dmflt said:

My question was; is it normal to feel the suck and push when a big rig passes. From here, and talking to friends who have large TTs, I have gotten my answer....it is normal.

Thanks for the input.

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The forum and your friends are correct, yes it's normal.  You eventually learn to anticipate and compensate for it.

dmflt said:

This has been the best response "for me" as yet.

I have measured the drop when hooking the WDH. I know it's right. What I'm getting out of this is, most of you assume that I have over-loaded, or that my TV isn't up to the task. I have wondered that myself, but I can assure you that I haven't over-loaded and I have owned trucks in the 250 class, and I tow heavier loads than my TT. I have checked the towing capacity on all the HD trucks, and none can match the Tundra. The Tundra has more ft lbs of torque than any of the other HD vehicles in the 250 range.  I don't have any problem with power. I did put 10 ply tires on the truck and it did help some because I can safely put more air in them. I will admit that the Tundra probably isn't as strong in the rear suspension as a HD vehicle, although with the towing package, they make it stronger than the ordinary 1/2 ton truck, which they claim matches a 3/4 ton.

My question was; is it normal to feel the suck and push when a big rig passes. From here, and talking to friends who have large TTs, I have gotten my answer....it is normal.

Thanks for the input.

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Manufacturer specification wise you are not over loaded.  That being said I think you truck is barely up to the task. 
As you and others stated, it is normal to feel the 'suck and push' when a big rig passes--espicially with enclosed trailers because they have alot of surface area.  As Berky said 35' is alot of surface area.  I seldom if ever am affected when I pull my open trailer, even if its loaded heavy.
My point is that a 6-7000lb truck will be sucked and pushed much more that an 8-10K truck.    Tow Vehicle weight is a consideration as is the type of trailer you are pulling...

dmflt said:

This has been the best response "for me" as yet.

I have measured the drop when hooking the WDH. I know it's right. What I'm getting out of this is, most of you assume that I have over-loaded, or that my TV isn't up to the task. I have wondered that myself, but I can assure you that I haven't over-loaded and I have owned trucks in the 250 class, and I tow heavier loads than my TT. I have checked the towing capacity on all the HD trucks, and none can match the Tundra. The Tundra has more ft lbs of torque than any of the other HD vehicles in the 250 range.  I don't have any problem with power. I did put 10 ply tires on the truck and it did help some because I can safely put more air in them. I will admit that the Tundra probably isn't as strong in the rear suspension as a HD vehicle, although with the towing package, they make it stronger than the ordinary 1/2 ton truck, which they claim matches a 3/4 ton.

My question was; is it normal to feel the suck and push when a big rig passes. From here, and talking to friends who have large TTs, I have gotten my answer....it is normal.

Thanks for the input.

Click to expand...

You put on 10-ply tires, LT E-range.  Those tires have a maximum inflation pressure of 80 PSI.  So what have you inflated yours to?  Just because you CAN put 80 PSI in them doesn't mean you SHOULD put 80 PSI in them.

The load tables for most LT-E tires list 45 PSI to carry 2000#.  If your tires are inflated much above that, could that be the source of the excessive pull by passing trucks and the light-feeling front end?

berky said:

You put on 10-ply tires, LT E-range.  Those tires have a maximum inflation pressure of 80 PSI.  So what have you inflated yours to?  Just because you CAN put 80 PSI in them doesn't mean you SHOULD put 80 PSI in them.

The load tables for most LT-E tires list 45 PSI to carry 2000#.  If your tires are inflated much above that, could that be the source of the excessive pull by passing trucks and the light-feeling front end?

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I agree with you. I have only towed once with the 10 ply tires and I ran it at 45psi and it did seem to help. I also agree with Derby6 on the weight of the tv. I think my Tundra just barely has enough weight to keep it on the road.

With this same Tundra, I pull a 24' open trailer with a 41 hp tractor with implements that weighs in more than the TT. It's never been affected by big rigs. That's why I was curious about the TT.  The fact that the TT has so much surface area makes good sense. Like I stated with my opening, I have never towed anything that large and the suck and push was new to me and kinda freakin me out.

In my past I owned a Suburban 1500 with a tow package and used it to tow a sailboat and a 25' TT. The boat and TT were close enough in size and weight to call it even. The towing experience was dramatically different even though I was way under maxing out the Suburban. The bottom line was I could tow the boat all day and it barely added any stress to the drive. The TT was something you always knew was back there, not terrible but it was always a nice feeling to unhook it.

At 35' you have a ton of windage both pulling and when trucks pass. There will also be a really long rear overhang which makes highway handling more of a chore. Sounds like you have the experience and set up mostly correct. I would guess that after a few trips it will become less stressful but it does sound like a 55mph combo or so.

Alpha38User
Thanks Stu.  I'll look into those. 

Gord

dmflt,
  I just had a thought. -- Scary I know--
  You have weight distribution bars, but do you have sway bar(s)?  If not get one or two and I bet it will make a HUGE difference. ;D
  I remember seeing somewhere that one sway bar was recommended for trailers under 28' and two was recommended for trailer 28? and greater.  I only have one on my 28? toy hauler and it?s enough for me.
  If you already have them, I will crawl back in my hole and shut up?..lol

His hitch may have sway control built in - the better brands do. Reese dual Cam, Equalizer, etc. In any case, sway control probably won't help with the feeling that the truck is getting pushed off the road by passing big rigs. That's because it IS being pushed off the road. A lot of wind is pushing sideways from the passing truck, and then that push suddenly disappears and the truck snaps back because you've been steering against the side-push.

You say it feels as if it is drifting but it is not actually moving aside. If that's the case, I would say the truck is leaning on its suspension. A stiffer anti-roll (anti-sway) bar in the suspension might help.

Derby6 said:

At a glance, I'd say a 35' trailer that is probably about 9K loaded is waaaaay to much for a Toyota Tundra.  Looking, the only Toyota tundra that that is rated for 10600lbs is the SR5 King double.  The other Tundra's with the same wheelbase and everything come in at 8000lbs or 5100lbs.
I think you are going to be hard pressed to ever get that truck to ever pull that trailer comfortably--level and with out any (or at least minimal) sway.  Even the most experienced of drivers pulling trailers wouldn't get used to and feel comfortable driving that combo down the highway.

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I have to agree. 

Half ton gasser pulling a TT that big? No way, wouldn't even consider it. 

There are several models of half ton trucks with 10,000 lb tow ratings, but they are still a smallish truck for that size trailer, so they are going to get pushed around by the big guys. A 3/4 ton  or one ton truck is heavier and has a stiffer and sturdier suspension, so doesn't react as much to the side pressure and cross-winds.

dmflt said:

My deal is; while towing now I can feel weird sensations in the towing vehicle that I haven't experienced in the past. When big trucks take the air off me, my truck feels like it wants to drift. It doesn't, but it sure feels like it could swap lanes on me.

My question is; Is he right? Is it something that I will get used to, or is it not normal? I realize I'm catching a lot more air now but it just doesn't feel comfortable. I don't feel like I have total control.

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I pull a 30 ft (bumper to hitch) trailer with a GVW of 7,500.  I pull it with an F250 Crew Cab Long Bed.  It is a diesel with 560 lbs of torque.  I have not experienced any of the sensations you have described.   

I don't consider myself an expert in these areas so rely heavily on forum members and their collective wisdom.  During my research, I have come across various rules of thumb for proper (safe) towing.  One not mentioned in this thread is the relative length of tow vehicle wheel base to trailer length.  Based on this rule of thumb, the longest trailer you should pull is about 30 feet.  There can be mitigating circumstances, but personally I'd be very concerned about the tail wagging the dog effect. 

Several years ago I was passed by 1/2 ton pickup pulling a travel trailer at a relatively high rate of speed.  I cannot ascribe what happened next to a weight or length issue, but the trailer began to sway.  Fortunately the frwy was not busy because this trailer was swaying from one lane to the other and pulling the pickup with it.  I thought it was going to roll for sure.  It didn't but when it finally pulled to the side of the road I could tell that the trailer and likely the pickup sustained significant frame damage.  I'm glad my wife was sleeping during this experience as I doubt we'd be trailering today if she wasn't.       

Gary RV Roamer said:

There are several models of half ton trucks with 10,000 lb tow ratings, but they are still a smallish truck for that size trailer, so they are going to get pushed around by the big guys. A 3/4 ton  or one ton truck is heavier and has a stiffer and sturdier suspension, so doesn't react as much to the side pressure and cross-winds.

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I totally agree. I'm on a quest now to find a heavier TV.

garyb1st said:

Several years ago I was passed by 1/2 ton pickup pulling a travel trailer at a relatively high rate of speed.  I cannot ascribe what happened next to a weight or length issue, but the trailer began to sway.  Fortunately the frwy was not busy because this trailer was swaying from one lane to the other and pulling the pickup with it.  I thought it was going to roll for sure.  It didn't but when it finally pulled to the side of the road I could tell that the trailer and likely the pickup sustained significant frame damage.  I'm glad my wife was sleeping during this experience as I doubt we'd be trailering today if she wasn't.     

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The guy was lucky.  I've seen one go the other way.  Very messy.  I've never understood towing at high speeds....seems like it's courting disaster.

I tow a 30' TT with a 1989 F250.  The truck is a 460 gasser, and will easily pull it at any speed I want.  I keep it at 55 or under if it's windy.  Paranoid?  Maybe....but I've never had an incident or even a close call.  At 55 I get zero sway, and minimal suck & push....barely noticeable.  Any faster and I start to feel it on an exponential level with every mph.  I ain't in any hurry.

Frizlefrak said:

The guy was lucky.  I've seen one go the other way.  Very messy.  I've never understood towing at high speeds....seems like it's courting disaster.

I tow a 30' TT with a 1989 F250.  The truck is a 460 gasser, and will easily pull it at any speed I want.  I keep it at 55 or under if it's windy.  Paranoid?  Maybe....but I've never had an incident or even a close call.  At 55 I get zero sway, and minimal suck & push....barely noticeable.  Any faster and I start to feel it on an exponential level with every mph.  I ain't in any hurry.

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Thank you another one that does as I do... I can tow at any speed too I've got more than enough power to do it. But Why? I set the cruise for 55 MPH and just kick back and enjoy the experience of towing my RV down the road. It's suppose to be a enjoyable experience not a white knuckle freak show. Not to mention the gains of towing at 55 MPH are well enjoyed too because I'm roughly 13-14 MPG... ;D

Mopar1973Man said:

Thank you another one that does as I do... I can tow at any speed too I've got more than enough power to do it. But Why? I set the cruise for 55 MPH and just kick back and enjoy the experience of towing my RV down the road. It's suppose to be a enjoyable experience not a white knuckle freak show. Not to mention the gains of towing at 55 MPH are well enjoyed too because I'm roughly 13-14 MPG... ;D

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You got that right.  Nice steady 55, A/C blasting, XM radio cranking out the classic rock, enjoying the scenery.  ;D

My other thing is that at 55, if something goes wrong like a blown tire, I can probably gather it back up and get it stopped safely.  At 70...?????

I have enough stress and deadlines at work.  RVing is my downtime, and will be treated accordingly. 

Also at 55 MPH its highly unlikely that your going to have a blow out unless your TT is grossly overloaded or the tires are under inflated. With all the hype about blowouts I've found 55 MPH to be a magic number where the tires are cooler and so are the hubs of the trailer, same with the truck tires. Being I live in the mountain of Idaho and anywhere I got is either up a hill or down a hill you just tend to stay slow and enjoy the ride.

Probably explains California's maximum speed limit for trucks pulling trailers, 55 mph.  Very few actually drive that slow. 

Idaho tow speed limit is 65 MPH. But more about it here...
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

So of these other states that allow speeds above 65 are plain crazy...

Mopar1973Man said:

Being I live in the mountain of Idaho and anywhere I got is either up a hill or down a hill you just tend to stay slow and enjoy the ride.

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Idaho is so scenic, I can't imagine driving faster and missing the beauty of it.  I'm in the same boat in W. Texas and Southern NM....hills and mountains everywhere....no point in trying to hurry.  Not to mention it's almost always windy once you get out of the city here.

I never thought about it, but you're right....everything will run cooler at 55 too.  Tires, bearings, tow vehicle, everything.  And the dreaded suck n push with semis is all but eliminated.

Slow down folks.....it ain't a contest. 

dmflt said:

This has been the best response "for me" as yet.

I have measured the drop when hooking the WDH. I know it's right. What I'm getting out of this is, most of you assume that I have over-loaded, or that my TV isn't up to the task. I have wondered that myself, but I can assure you that I haven't over-loaded and I have owned trucks in the 250 class, and I tow heavier loads than my TT. I have checked the towing capacity on all the HD trucks, and none can match the Tundra. The Tundra has more ft lbs of torque than any of the other HD vehicles in the 250 range.  I don't have any problem with power. I did put 10 ply tires on the truck and it did help some because I can safely put more air in them. I will admit that the Tundra probably isn't as strong in the rear suspension as a HD vehicle, although with the towing package, they make it stronger than the ordinary 1/2 ton truck, which they claim matches a 3/4 ton.

My question was; is it normal to feel the suck and push when a big rig passes. From here, and talking to friends who have large TTs, I have gotten my answer....it is normal.

Thanks for the input.

Click to expand...

I agree to an extent.  "Suck and Blow" are normal and understandable. 

I did not read if you have a sway control bar on your hitch setup. If not I would suggest it.  On my last outing... We got on interstate and I noticed my 33' was not as stable as it was a couple days earlier on way to campground.  Pulled for a little ways and then dropped off into first rest area.  While there I checked tires and hubs for heat. And then the main thing.  Tightened the sway control one round.  Trailer steadied right up and no more issues the rest of the ride back home.  Difference all the way around was even noticable from the passenger seat as DW mentioned it right away when we pulled onto I-40.

The suck and blow as I see it is a normal thing to an extent.  The big rigs push alot of air.  The sides of an RV are just as big of a wind catcher as the front of the rig.  When a truck comes along side and starts pushing the rear of the trailer away from them it will feel as if it is "sucking" you into them.  Once that wall of air is past the axles on the trailer, the opposite begins to happen and it "Blows" you away from them.  A sway control will tighten that pivot point and make the TV and TT seem more as one unit and thus more stable on the road.

Just my .02.