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Author Topic: World Cup Football (Soccer)  (Read 12692 times)

UK-RV

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World Cup Football (Soccer)
« on: June 12, 2006, 11:15:05 AM »
Hi Guys

I think I may upset you with this, but here goes :-

After watching most of the World Cup on TV, I switched on for the USA v Czech game this morning.

Most of the games have started broadcasting just 5 minutes before Kick-Off, with no pre-match build-up or National Anthems - fair enough as the game is no big thing over here.

But I was appalled when I started to watch the USA coverage this morning.

At the start of every game, both teams are presented to the crowd and each countries National Anthem is broadcast. The opposing supporters will stand and be silent for the opposite teams anthem and usually sing their hearts out at their own.

What happened on TV today - the USA anthem is broadcast and then the Czech anthem is replaced with commercials - how rude and disrespectful !!

The USA often wonder why people are against them - I feel this is a perfect example of why. There doesn't appear to be any recognition/respect for anyone else's culture.

Football is a World Sport which brings nations together in friendly competition - it is played with Fair Play and Respect at its heart.

I do hope the TV stations change this practice as the competition progresses.

Paul

JohnSandyWhite

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2006, 11:28:19 AM »
Football is a World Sport which brings nations together in friendly competition - it is played with Fair Play and Respect at its heart.

 ;D I agree Football is a World Sport.
 :o I disagree that it brings together Nations in friendly competition.
 :o It hasn't been played with Fair Play and Respect at its heart since I were a lad.

 ??? Grown men hugging, kissing and crying?  ;D
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

Carl L

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2006, 01:06:45 PM »
Paul,

You watched the program on a US station, right?  Broadcasting in the USA, right?  About how many Czechs might be watching that broadcast?   As many as 10?  If I were watching the broadcast in the Czech Republic and the station cut away during the US anthem, no big deal.  I have heard it before, I would not be standing at attention, and I would doubt of many Czech viewers were doing the same.   In fact, I might be out getting a beer during the playing.   This all presumes I would be watching a soccer game on TV.

As long as respect is rendered at the event itself that is enough.
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

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Alaskansnowbirds

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2006, 03:55:10 PM »
Paul,

You watched the program on a US station, right?  Broadcasting in the USA, right?  About how many Czechs might be watching that broadcast?   As many as 10?

snip

As many as 10? It all depends on what part of the US you're talking about. Back in the steel mill areas you will find large populations of people from Czech descent. I'm sure they are just as proud of their heritage as you are of yours.

Sorry Carl, I agree with Paul. The US's reputation as "ugly America" is well earned by the way we respect other nations. Just watch the stands at any sporting event while the National Anthem is being played. We don't even respect our own National Anthem.
Don & Peg
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Currently located here.
Weather at Camp Verde, AZ.

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2006, 08:14:07 PM »
Well Paul, we had some English visitors at the house last year and they attended an event at the local yacht club with us. It was the Memorial Day weekend, our equivalent of Armistice Day. Chris (my other half) was invited to be part of a flag-bearing procession, which was followed by the Pledge Of Allegiance and a recognition of troops currently in combat. One of our English friends said in a sarcastic tone "typical American isn't it".

Why would anyone from England expect respect for the Czech national anthem when one of your fellow countrymen can't respect the honoring of U.S. troops who have fallen in defence of their country?

As for soccer, I turn to a different TV station if/when soccer comes on. Anyone attending a typical English club soccer game is in for a real treat - English fans participating in some really ugly violence. If it's an away game, club or international, and their team loses, the English fans go on a rampage throughout the host city, causing endless property damage and go on a witch hunt for locals with the intent of causing serious personal injury. Then they get on the train to head home and destroy the interior of the train.

FWIW I attended my first rugby game at the ripe old age of 6 months (my Dad used to take me to all the local home games) and I've been a rugby supporter ever since. I've yet to see any violence at a rugby game or in the host city afterwards, and certainly none instigated by Welsh or American fans against their English counterparts.

Seems to me that your countrymen could learn a lot about respect for other cities and countries before any of their bretheren complain about not being able to listen to the Czech national anthem on U.S. TV.

Have a nice day!  ;D
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 08:16:20 PM by Tom »
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Jeff

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2006, 08:29:35 PM »
Paul:

But we do stand for the Canadian National Anthem at every hockey game played in the US. 8)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 09:05:15 PM by Jeff Cousins »

UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2006, 09:04:10 PM »
Tom,

OMG !!

OK - now Ive spent a few minutes and can reply calmly.

Shall I compare your statements of "..English fans go on a rampage.." and "..go on a witch hunt for locals.." with the thought that all US soldiers committed crimes at Abu Garab ? - of course not - there are a VERY small number of idiots who watch football as there are a VERY small number of idiots in Military uniform (all nationalities).

Your house guest was outspoken - but you might compare his background of our Armistice Day (2 minute silence nationwide, prayer, poppies) with the US version with the razzmatazz and (to reserved Brits) OTT actions - if he felt this was indeed OTT, he really should have kept his mouth shut - Im sorry, but I cant be responsible for him !!

For my part, I didn't witness ANY Memorial Day actions last month - the only thing I knew of Memorial Day was on TV and Radio news stating "get out and enjoy your HOLIDAY weekend".

Generally, the US is a very proud nation and knows how to show that pride - you do see it everywhere.

I do wish we Brits could take a bit more pride in OUR Country too.

Back to my original complaint - the TV station this morning had a perfect opportunity to show respect for the Czechs by allowing just 5 minutes to air their anthem, rather than showing commercials.

Paul





Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2006, 09:21:19 PM »
Quote
....you might compare his background of our Armistice Day (2 minute silence nationwide, prayer, poppies) with the US version with the razzmatazz and (to reserved Brits) OTT actions

My memory of Armistice Day is a lot more than 2 minutes silence and laying a wreath at the Cenotaph. Lots of local parades including police, boy scouts, girl guides, St. John's Ambulance and anyone who wears a uniform. That's not razzmatazz  ???  ;D

Quote
... I didn't witness ANY Memorial Day actions last month..

It was all around, should anyone have chosen to look.

Quote
...the TV station this morning had a perfect opportunity to show respect for the Czechs by allowing just 5 minutes to air their anthem, rather than showing commercials.

Unlike the BBC, U.S. TV stations have to make money and, unlike American Football where the action on the field stops for TV commercials, cutting away from continuing play to ads would be equally objectionable to some folks.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 09:22:59 PM by Tom »
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UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2006, 09:46:26 PM »
Tom

The BBC is just one of many channels in the UK - all the others rely on advertising revenue.

US TV could have cut the US anthem too and doubled their advertising time/revenue as money is SO much more important than respecting other nationalities. ;D

At this point in time tthe US needs to open it's arms to welcome/respect other nationalities/faiths rather than just preach "the American way".

Nothing wrong with America, but there are other people on the planet too.

Paul

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2006, 10:39:56 PM »
tthe US needs to open it's arms to welcome/respect other nationalities/faiths

 ??? Just look around Paul. The U.S. welcomes people of all nationalities and faiths more than any other nation.
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UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2006, 11:15:30 PM »

LOL - yes Tom - stay in your bubble and all will be well - NOT.

The many, many thousands of Mexicans protesting in the US at the moment no doubt appreciate your warm welcome.

Your President seems to think that allowing them to enter the US for a set period of time - to do all the crap jobs the Americans wont do - and then being sent home again is also 'welcoming'. Invite them, let them prove their worth to your Country and then reward them with a green card may be a better way of welcoming other nations.

And this is how your nearest neighbours are treated !

But of course "The U.S. welcomes people of all nationalities and faiths more than any other nation."

All this discussion over an Anthem - cant you even concede that it would have been better if the Anthem was aired ?

I havent asked that the Anthems for each Country be played at the start of every game, just that if you are going to play the USA, then you should air the opponent too - not too difficult to accept is it?

Paul

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2006, 11:26:17 PM »
Paul,

There's one word missing when it comes to discussing immigrants from any source - legal. There's a well defined process for legal immigration into the U.S. that millions of people have followed.

As for the anthem issue, try calling the network/station that cut to commercials. There's nothing that anyone here on this forum can do about it. Personally, I always respect the anthems of other countries - I either stand in silence or, if I've been able to learn the words and music, I'll sing their anthem. I've never heard a single English person sing the Welsh or U.S. national anthems at any kind of game, although I've sung the English anthem countless times. I've even heard English fans boo loudly during the singing/playing of other anthems; Quite respectful.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 11:31:57 PM by Tom »
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Smoky

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2006, 05:21:47 AM »
I have to agree with Paul on this one, and I am pure American.

World soccer is a "world" event.  Just like the Olympics.  It is NOT an American event.

It would be considered awful if we cut to advertising when a non American anthem was being played at an Olympic event.

Paul I do hope you have enough understanding in your heart to allow for the fact that America is new to football.  In our country football has an entirely different game and meaning, and we are only now really beginning to enter the world of non American football.  We have a lot to learn in this area.

That said, I think Americans are no worse than any other culture when it comes to manners.  What are often interpreted as "bad manners" are in many cases, on the global scale, simply cultural misunderstandings. 

For example, Americans are HORRIFIED at the fighting and stampeding that they see that goes on in other countries surrounding the World football matches.  This is VERY rare in our country, though it has on rare occasions happened, though not on the same scale as in Europe.

Maybe someday down the road we will see American stations honoring both country's anthems, and Americans wildly rampaging through stadiums, killing and injuring others,  during the World football matches.   ;D

At any rate, you can at least take some solace in the fact that the Americans were soundly defeated by the Csechs in a match that everyone expected the Americans to win.
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

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JohnSandyWhite

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2006, 05:38:21 AM »
I do wish we Brits could take a bit more pride in OUR Country too.

 ??? So do I. But it will never happen while ever any Government allows immigration (illegal or otherwise) and preferential treatment to them over and above the natural born and bred. United Kingdom? Dis-United more like. I am not a political person (only ever voted once) but I believe more and more people are seriously thinking of backing the BNP.
I have to agree (up to a point) that the Americans do appear to go over the top when it comes to raising the flag and supporting the country. But hey? I can't see much wrong with that.  ;D
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

Smoky

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2006, 06:00:20 AM »
John:

Thanks for saying that.  Believe me I appreciate hearing that from a non-American.

I think sometimes we Americans overcompensate because we have given an enormous number of lives and dollars trying to help other nations, only then to be accused of having ulterior motives and agendas.  While it is true that our government may sometimes use dollars to manipulate other nations, I know they do not use lives to do this.  And from an individual viewpoint, no American individual wants their precious tax dollars used for any other purpose than good purposes.  I sometimes worry that non-Americans hate Americans because of what governments do.

The global nature of the Internet has taught me that all individuals, all over the world, are basically the same.  It is our governments that are different.  I think one of the great benefits of the Internet is that it allows we individuals to break through the spin of media and the control of government and relate to each other without all the restrictions we used to have before the Internet.  I think 100 years from now the Internet will be looked back upon as a great world liberating force.

I hate to be an ugly American.  I am envious of Europeans because they are more cosmopolitan.  They have a better understanding of the world because they are more closely interconnected with other nations and also are exposed to many more languages.

I take every opportunity I can to be less ugly and more knowledgeable about other cultures.  This is not an easy task when one lives separated by many oceans from most other cultures.

That is why I am hoping that Paul (who began this thread) while he is correct in pointing the finger at an American oversight, can also find the love and understanding in his heart to look at us as individuals, and not some part of a mean and nasty army that is trying to be rude to the rest of the world.
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
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2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
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Shayne

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2006, 08:50:30 AM »
While on the subject of anthems- It's very rude to play one anthem and not the other on the tube, but that was the stations desire not all Americans believe that way.   As a matter of fact I wish in most cases they wouldn't play either, cause when some of these so called entertainers decieve to put their own version of the National Anthem, I just cringe at the extended notes and screaming intpo the microphone.  That's not the way it was written and composed and definately an insult to the Anthem as to the way it should be performed.  SAndy Patti sang the pro[er version at the Philly commencement several years ago and if you have any patriotic feeling whatsoever, it will bring chills down your spine as you hear it.  To me that's what it's about. It gets you attention.  And as for as border control, It's become a necessity to do so. We may be the richest country on earth but the people just can't afford the laxitivity of the rules by which this great country controls it's borders.  Millions are here and have contributed nothing and we are supporting them.  Wrong.  If we want to support someone, let's start here at home.   Let the new comers to this country do it legally and learn to speak our language not we learn theirs.    I'm off the soap box.  Some may disagree but that's my opinion. To each his own, but I think I speak as a majority.
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 11:45:48 AM »
LOL Shayne, you say it like you see it and don't use unnecessary words to do so. I agree with almost everything you said.

Personally, I'm all for both anthems at a sporting event and I really enjoy seeing/hearing supporters from opposing teams sing their respective national anthem with pride.

BTW did you know that we here in the U.S. have a wonderful and patriotic hymn that shares the same tune with the English national anthem? It's "America" aka "My country 'tis of thee", written by Dr. Sam­u­el F. Smith in 1832.
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 11:52:25 AM »
.....Government allows immigration (illegal or otherwise) and preferential treatment to them over and above the natural born and bred.

John,

The stories I've heard from family and friends in the UK just astound me. Back in the 60's a controversial politician named Enoch Powell continually warned the UK government and UK citizens that "if you open the door just a little, you'll be sorry one day". For anyone who's interested, here's a little history of the man and his views on national identity and immigration.
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Shayne

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 01:55:43 PM »
Totally Agree  It ticks me off when anyone's Anthem is being played and some SOB stands yakking up a storms and has no idea what his or her mouth is rattling off.  If I was 30 yrs younger I'd probably go to jail for decking the lout.  Besides we can't blame Pres Bush for this dang mess,  he didn't create it,  but someones's got to clean it up and we're only 70- years to late in doing so.  If you listen to Gore, Kennedy, and Kerry and crew they would have everybody on on relief and no one would pay.  So figure that one out.  I sure can't.  Don't believe in mincing words on patritism, too, too, too, dang many of us served and way too many paid too dearly with their lives to allow this crap that's going on in this country today.  If you don't like  it, get the Hell out.  If you want to enter, do it the legal and right way, I've got no problem with that and then I can respect you.  Wow  Sorry for the soap box. 
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

Ron

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2006, 05:33:37 PM »
Watch out here come my comments and I tend to call a spade a spade with no beating around the bush.  In Paul's original post he complained that the US TV went to a commercial break during the singing of another countries National Anthem.  Well I have seen our TV stations go to Commercial break during our own National Anthem.  The last time this happend frankly I was glad since the person singing the National Anthem was butchering it so bad.  Like Shane mentioned some of the people they select to sing the National Anthem should be Tared and feathered for they way they butcher it.

As for station breaks IMHO the News Media have no honor, and I don't care from which country they are from, they have no respect for anything, anybody or any country and the stations they are affiliated with are just as bad since they broadcast what ever the news media give them.

It is easy for some to criticize the other guy or the other country but before doing so they should look at themselves and in their own back yard.

What CBS, ABC,  NBC or any other network  does for commercial break is not influenced by the American citizens so don't hold us responsible.  The networks have done things like this before and even to the American Anthem and I am sure it will happen again because IMHO they are driven by Greed.


Was it the right thing to do NO, will it happen again probably and next time it could very well be during our own Anthem.  Do I approve of this behavior NO, can I do anything about it NO, can you do anything about it NO.  So let it go and just consider who is responsible, the networks and let it go.

Another possibility it that the feed from where ever the games are being held went to commercial break forcing every body getting that particular feed to do the same.  Not an excuse just a possibility.

Enough said on this subject.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2006, 05:56:32 PM »
Paul's first line of his lead message read:

Quote
I think I may upset you with this, but here goes

It didn't necessarily upset anyone, but it stirred emotions a little. Helps break the boredom around here  ;D
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 05:59:53 PM by Tom »
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UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 07:45:14 PM »
Thanks for adding that last bit Tom - my original post wasnt intended to start a fire, just pass an observation.

This next bit isnt intended to stoke it up either :-

US Immigration :-

I TOTALLY agree with you that the ideal way to contribute to a Country is thru legal channels.

However, the US offers a VERY limited choice in applying for a work permit and/or residency - and why shouldnt they, its their Country.

But, think of all the Mexicans who have been doing the crap jobs in your Country (we have them too), because no US citizen will do the jobs.

How would you cope if they werent here?

You have allowed this situation for many, many years and only after 9/11 have you recognised a potential problem with ignoring they are here.

OK, let them apply to become US Citizens - what are the choices :-

1. Green Card Lottery - more chance of winning the Lotto and not needing to come to the US.
2. Skilled Workforce Program - I dont think cleaners are classed in the same vein as Doctors, so no chance there.
3. Entertainers, etc - no, I dont think so.
4. Financial Invester - minimum $0.5M to invest in a deprived area of the US.

Actually, I just found a link with a little more than the above - http://www.visalaw.com/03may4/2may403.html

You will soon see that there are very few legal avenues open to the tyoe of worker you actually NEED in your Country.

The scheme suggested by President Bush is potentially an excellent way of introducing a new workforce into the US - but to tell them they can work the crap jobs for x years and then be sent home is a bit much - no wonder they are all protesting, and what do you expect will happen when they vanish after the x years - you cant find the illegal ones you already have.

The UK suffers from a very similar shortage of workers - except we are 'importing' Bus Drivers, Electricians, Plumbers even Doctors and Nurses to fill our job vacancies - I worked in one of our Unemployment Offices for 6 months and was amazed at the numbers being invited from Eastern Europe.

Of course, we have 1/2 million lazy so and so's getting paid by the state for sitting on their backsides - now that opens a whole new debate.

Paul

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2006, 08:07:58 PM »
However, the US offers a VERY limited choice in applying for a work permit and/or residency..

There are more legal ways for people to work in this country than you could imagine and many employers exploit these rules to legally employ people here. There's no reason for anyone to be here illegally.

Quote
...think of all the Mexicans who have been doing the crap jobs in your Country...

Think of all the Welsh coal miners who worked for a pitance at English-owned coal mines and spent all their money at English-owned company stores. I came from a coal mining family - my father, uncles and grandfathers all worked in the mines. My Dad started work in the mines at 12 years of age and ultimately suffered pneumoconiosis (aka black lung disease), all to line the coffers of the English coal mine owners. Do you really want to talk about "crap jobs in your country"?

To add insult to injury, Welsh kids who attended English-run schools were beaten for speaking their native Welsh tongue while attending schools in Wales because the English-speaking teachers were too lazy or incapable of learning the Welsh language. If you haven't seen the movie "How green was my valley", it might be educational.

Quote
Of course, we have 1/2 million lazy so and so's getting paid by the state for sitting on their backsides

I'm ashamed to say that I have friends and relatives among that 1/2 million.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 08:37:44 PM by Tom »
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Ron

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2006, 08:25:52 PM »
Your post did indeed prompt discussion.  I doubt if it really upset anybody.


As for the illegal residents here.  There are several avenues for workers to enter this country legally and it is done all the time.  However, if anybody chooses to enter illegally then why should they be allowed to stay.  That is only rewarding them for their crime and letting them keep the proceed of their crime.  But anybody employing illegals should also be held accountable with heavy fines and contributions to the social security system to help replace that which has been lost do to the illegal workers they hired.  The illegal workers are not only holding as you called crap jobs but constructions jobs and others.  It is a problem but rewarding criminals for their crime is not a way to fix the problem.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2006, 08:41:50 PM »

But anybody employing illegals should also be held accountable with heavy fines and contributions to the social security system

Ron - now THAT is the only way you are going to deal with the people you already have here - if employers are too scared to hire them, the majority will go home.

Of course, that does then leave you with nobody doing the work.  ;D

Paul



Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2006, 08:50:58 PM »
Of course, that does then leave you with nobody doing the work.

Not so Paul. Among the millions of legal foreign workers are Hispanic folks who work in the fields and make their contribution to American society.

Personally, I believe the real threat is from folks who come here legally to be educated and gain work experience, then go home to their native land to set up competing companies. China, for example, is our largest potential competitior, followed by India. I personally know quite a few folks, both Chinese and Indian, who followed the route I'm describing and returned to their homeland. I've said for a long time that we'd all better learn Mandarin.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 08:55:12 PM by Tom »
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Ron

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2006, 08:54:23 PM »
We also have too many freeloaders that are healthy but lazy drawing paychecks for doing nothing.  Stop those free paychecks and make them go to work.
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JohnSandyWhite

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2006, 04:33:42 AM »
 :( Yes Paul we have illegal's working in the UK doing jobs that our lazy B*("&&(* don't want to do. The employers have been charged for these offences at times (when caught).

Yes Tom. I come from the same background. ALL the coalmines were owned by the English landed gentry. We had a lot of Welsh working down our local Coal mine too along side my father and myself.

Enoch Powell should have been Prime Minister. Perhaps even the President of Britain.

We have the same in the UK Ron. We should make them do the jobs the illegals are currently doing instead of giving them money and housing for nothing. IMH&VHO.
 ;D
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2006, 08:46:50 AM »
Thanks for the observations John. I have to agree that Enoch Powell should have been PM.

BTW were English kids beaten for speaking their native tongue at English schools ?  ;D
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JohnSandyWhite

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2006, 08:52:05 AM »
BTW were English kids beaten for speaking their native tongue at English schools ?  ;D

 :D We were all beaten Tom. None of us could speak the Queen's english. I'm a Yorkshireman.  ;D :D ;D
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

 

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