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Author Topic: World Cup Football (Soccer)  (Read 13494 times)

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2006, 09:23:08 AM »
LOL John.
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Smoky

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2006, 02:46:40 PM »
Ron Ruward makes a good point.  Paul, please do not judge individual Americans based on what the media does.

Paul, you made an excellent point in your initial post, and I defended your original view, but I believe you are going way to far down the road with this.  You said:

“But, think of all the Mexicans who have been doing the crap jobs in your Country (we have them too), because no US citizen will do the jobs.

How would you cope if they weren’t here?”

Gee.  That simply is not true.  What are your circumstances?  Do you live in the United States?  If so, where?  I spend my winters near the Mexican border.  I have hired Mexicans, not to do crap jobs, but to do craftsman jobs because they are good at it.  I admire working Mexicans.  Unlike some other segments of the U.S. population, they have a very high work ethic and are trustoworthy.  And they exude a great happiness and joy towards life.

I think we would cope just fine without Mexicans.  Plenty of non Mexicans to do the crap jobs, whatever they are (I don’t know).  I have cleaned bathrooms in my time, and that is the closest thing I can think of to what you vaguely refer to as crap jobs.

Paul…. I can’t understand where you are headed with this, other than to criticize Americans for some things they do wrong and lots of things they don’t do wrong.  Sounds to me like you are “out to get” Americans.  Not a very neighborly attitude.  Likely I misread your intentions.

But that is a popular attitude overseas I admit.  I sometimes wonder if some kind of envy is behind it.  If so, there is little to be envious about, IMO.  America has made some tough choices and paid some heavy sacrifices for them.

Just for clarification, do you feel anyone who wants to can just enter the United States and take advantage of any benefits offered to citizens?  When you say if we don’t allow them, “Of course, that does then leave you with nobody doing the work.” It tells me you do not really know what goes on here.  There are plenty of people to do the work.

Why don’t we just leave it at the fact that the American media showed lack of thought in not allowing both anthems to be broadcast?
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2006, 10:41:47 AM »
Before I respond, Ive just seen the following video on TV - hilarious - http://www.golakes.co.uk/worldcupsheep/


Smoky (and anyone else) - apologies if that is the impression I gave off - certainly not intended.

My comments are only made based on looking at Immigration requirements for Ann-Marie and myself, as we were actually looking at the potential in moving here and buying a business.

We soon found it near impossible to do.

So, if it is that difficult for us (We dont want to be forced to spend a $0.5M investment in a 'high unemployment area' - been there and done that) it must surely be near impossible for those without the cash.

My comments on the 'crap jobs' were taken (perhaps too literally) from Pres Bush's statement of 'the jobs no American will do' - I wouldn't have thought you have too many people turning down the really good jobs (whatever they are).

I mentioned earlier that I worked in an (un)employment office in the UK and saw, first hand, the number and type of jobs that nobody would do. These jobs remained empty for months and months or had a really high staff turnover rate. We owned a couple of retail stores and filling basic cashier vacancies was a nightmare.

Our Country is encouraging people from overseas to comes and work in the UK - the people from Poland I met whilst at the employment office appeared so grateful for the opportunity offered to them.

Im certainly not anti-American (I dont think Im anti-anyone) - I really have met some wonderful Americans.

But, I am definately anti-American on a LOT of your Countries attitudes and policies - hell, Im pretty anti on a lot of ours too  ;D

So, apologies if you feel my comments were anti-you, that wasn't intended.

It is just casual debate over issues (once again) we can do very little to change.

Paul





Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2006, 08:36:48 PM »
.....we were actually looking at the potential in moving here and buying a business. We soon found it near impossible to do.

Paul,

Find yourself a good immigration lawyer who knows the ropes and doesn't give up after reading some web site. But be prepared to go through a process, or series of processes and to be patient.

Quote
....it must surely be near impossible for those without the cash.

We came here (legally) 25 years ago with little money and whatever we could fit in a few suitcases. Millions more did it, some with less than the little cash we had.

Quote
.... were taken (perhaps too literally) from Pres Bush's statement of 'the jobs no American will do'

Yes, probably too literally. There are people here who can and would do those jobs, but not for the pittance being paid.

Quote
..... saw, first hand, the number and type of jobs that nobody would do.

You forgot to mention that folks could make more money by living off the state. Remember, I have friends and relatives in that 1/2 million.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 10:23:41 PM by Tom »
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2006, 06:41:01 AM »
BTW Paul, congrats on the win yesterday. I turned the tube on at half time and watched some of the 2nd half as well as some replays from the first half. Little old Trinidad and Tobago were doing a great job of defending and were really close with that first half near-goal. It looked like England was going to have to settle for a scoreless draw, but making the substitution late in the game saved the day for them.
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UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2006, 10:34:01 AM »
Thanks Tom

Unfortunately, if the team continue as they've played the first two games they will soon be heading home.

But I guess it could be argued that a win is a win however badly you scrape thru with it.

If we do lose the next round, it would certainly save me the hassle of tracking down CGs with suitable TV stations  ;D

Paul

BTW Ive just watched the great display by Argentina, but haven't had chance to see if we are due to meet them further in the competition - we are STUFFED if we do play them.





Smoky

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2006, 12:29:55 PM »
Paul, thanks very much for your explanation.  It explained a lot of things for me.

I can see that the tougher immigration process has affected you in a personal way, something I did not understand when first reading your messages.  Indeed immigration was a lot easier decades ago.  In fact, if you go back to when our nation began the process of changing from native Americans to immigrants, we gladly welcomed immigrants.  There were some negatives, of course, such as indentureship, but on the whole America, in its early days, was a grand melting pot of many nations.  That is one of the things that made us strong, and we are proud of our heritage. 

However that was then and this is now.  Because America is such an attractive place to live (for some people) it continues to draw more than its fair share of potential immigrants.  Also, more than its fair share of abusive intruders who attempt to siphon off the riches without paying their share of the cost.  I think you know this is true, and I think that is not a description of your own efforts.  I take it you would like to be a full citizen and share in both the benefits and responsibilities of citizenship.  Those who think this is a land of milk and honey to be had for the grabbing, are the ones who likely will be disappointed as our policies tighten.

But you have been caught in the switch.  Like any change in a major direction, it starts out rough and takes time to work itself into an acceptable and fair plan.  If becoming a citizen of the United States were simple and easy, then everyone would do it and the country would suffer greatly.  But if one is serious about citizenship, then the amount of effort required would certainly lead to a worthy reward and something to be quite proud of.  I know if I decided I preferred living in another land, I would work very hard to accomplish my goal.

What specifically are the main difficulties preventing you from becoming a citizen here?  Maybe if we understood more why you are having doors closed on your attempts to move here we could better understand where you are coming from.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 03:42:59 PM by Smoky »
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
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the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
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On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2006, 03:14:00 PM »
Paul,

We had a question while watching the second half of the T&T game - any idea how much David Beckham (sp?) earns? I assume he has to be the top paid player in the UK. Won't be long now before he's getting a bit past it for playing soccer though.

A side note ....

You may not recall the heyday of George Best, by far one of the best players the UK ever produced. So much talent. But he discovered women and booze and, after repeatedly faling to turn up for practice, was kicked off one team after another. He eventually came to California in the late 70's and played for the San Jose Earthquakes. Even as a washed up old player, he still had more talent than local folks had seen. IIRC he passed away a year or so ago.
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Carl L

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2006, 04:48:43 PM »
Quote
But you have been caught in the switch.  Like any change in a major direction, it starts out rough and takes time to work itself into an acceptable and fair plan.  If becoming a citizen of the United States were simple and easy, then everyone would do it and the country would suffer greatly.  But if one is serious about citizenship, then the amount of effort required would certainly lead to a worthy reward and something to be quite proud of.  I know if I decided I preferred living in another land, I would work very hard to accomplish my goal.

Actually once upon a time it was, Smoky.  Back in the 1800s and early 1900s.   Buy a ticket, get on a boat, land in some American port and you got a start.    Come election time, a precinct worker for the local political would show up at your door and encourge you to vote and for the machine's candidates.  After a while, enough elections rolled by and you were a citizen.   One of the machine's judges would swear you in.   Anyway that is how my Svensker ancestors crept in under the wire.   

My Welsh ancestors qualified by shooting enough redcoats to make a country to be citizens of -- Battle of Saratoga. 

One way is even easier.   If your momma gives birth to you in the territory of the USA, including the decks of its warships, and she is subject to the jurisdiction of the USA (ie not a diplomat), then the moment you stick your head out, you are a US citizen.   Entitled to a passport and to vote at your 18th birthday.  Shoot, you can even run for Prez.   Ain't America grand?    ;D
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UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2006, 10:46:19 PM »
Tom - I THINK Germanys Michael Ballack is the highest paid player in the UK at the moment - playing for Chelsea.


Following Englands poor performance, this joke is doing the rounds :-


It is just before the England v Brazil match. Ronaldinho goes into the Brazilian changing room to find all his teammates looking a bit glum.

"What's up?" he asks.

"Well, we're having trouble getting motivated for this game. We know it's important but it's only England. They're sh*te and we can't be bothered."

Ronaldinho looks at them and says, "Well, I reckon I can beat them by myself. You lads go down the pub."

So Ronaldinho goes out to play England by himself and the rest of the Brazilian team go off for a few jars.

After a few pints they wonder how the game is going, so they get the landlord to put the teletext on. A big cheer goes up as the screen reads " Brazil 1 - England 0 (Ronaldinho 10 minutes)". He is beating England all by himself!

Anyway, a few pints later and the game is forgotten until someone remembers, "It must be full time now, let's see how he got on." They put the teletext on.

"Result from the Stadium 'Brazil 1 (Ronaldinho 10 minutes) - England 1 (Lampard 89 minutes)."

They can't believe it; he has single-handedly got a draw against England!! They rush back to the Stadium to congratulate Ronaldinho. They find him in the dressing room, still in his gear, sitting with his head in his hands.

He refuses to look at them. "I've let you down, I've let you down."

"Don't be daft, you got a draw against England, all by yourself. And they only scored at the very, very end!"

"No, no, I have, I've let you down. I got sent off after 12 minutes."

 ;D ;D
Paul

Smoky

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2006, 10:47:23 PM »
Right you are Carl.  I was trying to make that clear and then explain how times have changed.  And yes there are some quick ways of becoming a citizen, but I don't think Paul will be able to utilize them.
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
where the fish get bigger
the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
Toad - Taurus wagon w/ axle lock
On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2006, 10:48:17 PM »
LOL Paul, that's a real low blow for England.
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2006, 05:04:48 PM »
English soccer fans again showed their respect for other countries yesterday by engaging in street fights with peaceful German supporters. England wasn't even playing, but their fans decided they'd pick on the locals anyway. 300 people were arrested, unfortunately most would be let out after only a brief stay.

This was not an isolated incident. It's happened numerous times over the years, both at world cup events and at regular 'away' games.

Too bad they can't respect other people and especially the country they're visiting.
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Carl L

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2006, 05:13:22 PM »
Ah weell, those Englisher laddies just like to have fun.   I wonder how they rate the German coppers and nicks.   It was too bad that they couldn't make the world cup when LA hosted some of the games.  LAPD missed a chance at the Quadriennial Yob Cup.   ;D ;D 
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Jeff

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2006, 08:57:09 PM »
I wonder if we could arrange a match in Bagdad for the Brits and provide free transportation for the "Englisher laddies"; might solve our problems in Iraq. ::) ::)

Carl L

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2006, 09:21:54 PM »
Too late, those arrangements were made 3 years ago or so.
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2006, 11:49:53 PM »
ROTFL Jeff!

One correction - rather than generic "Brits", it should be more specifically English soccer fans.
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Jeff

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2006, 11:55:05 PM »
ROTFL Jeff!

One correction - rather than generic "Brits", it should be more specifically English soccer fans.

Oops, sorry Tom, didn't mean to inpunge the rest of the Bristish isles. ;D

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2006, 11:56:41 PM »
LOL Jeff, it's OK if you mix up the Scots, Welsh and Irish, but don't associate any of us with the English  ;D
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UK-RV

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2006, 12:29:34 AM »
Here you go again Tom.

Please don't report half-facts - if you are going to state these things, at least give the full details.

I would be happy to read the news report containing the words ...engaging in street fights with peaceful German supporters..

400 English fans have been arrested out of a total 5,000 fans arrested throughout the tournament (so far) - given that Germany and England have by far (70%) the highest numbers of 'fans' at the tournament, your limited statement doesn't mean too much (and seems like you are determined to use every titbit of information to word any sort of attack on all but the US and the Welsh).

Rather than utilise one hyped headline, why not read all the headlines to get a balanced view! - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2235276,00.html

Out of those 400, 3 were detained - for offences such as throwing chairs and breaking a table.

Given the past history of English fans, it beggars belief that the German authorities didn't have enough space to hold those arrested if they felt it justified ??

Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favour of locking people up and throwing away the key - I don't think enough is done to tackle crime of any sort, whether it be in Europe or elsewhere. Don't forget, Ive just spent 7 years fighting off drug addicts, shoplifters and burglars in my (old)retail stores.

BTW - what would be your excuse for the 110,000 annual deaths and/or serious injuries caused by guns in the USA each year ? (I think I would rather have a few thrown chairs).

I started this thread as a pretty simple observation on Respect (or lack of it) - I even apologised several times to anyone who may have been offended by 'my views'.

Tom - I think it is time you left your anti-English stance now and agree that we may disagree - I am certainly offended by your repeated negative swipes at the English.

Paul

PS I have been watching the World Cup on Canadian TV and am pleased that EVERY National Anthem has been aired to date.




« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 12:48:40 AM by UK-RV »

Carl L

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2006, 12:53:24 AM »
Ohmygod, here we go again.

For about 8 years I sysopped on a British political forum on Compuserve.  I am an American, a native American, with a Swedish surname, so don't ask how that happened.  ;D   Every once in a while the Jocks, Taffs, and Sassanachs/Limeys would get into it, and the poor damn lone American would have to wade in and pull irate members out of the pile and take them off to section 0, the private staff section, and read them the riot act about being nice to each other and tolerent of other countries lest they leave us for a month or so in Coventry.

I have a announcement:

                  I ain't gonna do it here!

So you all be nice to each other, hear.  8)
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2006, 03:33:23 AM »
Gee Paul, I reported what I saw on TV, although I'm the first to complain that our TV news lacks both depth and breadth when it comes to international issues. What I saw was the same thing I've seen for many years at or following numerous international and club games involving English supporters. I've also seen it while watching British-made documentaries following Bobbies around after games. For whatever reason, some of these folks go looking for opposing fans just to beat them up.

Quote
...what would be your excuse for the 110,000 annual deaths and/or serious injuries caused by guns in the USA each year ?

Good try but, if you'd been around here longer, you'd know that I don't discuss gun-related issues. Actually, most folks here don't discuss the subject, partly because of the emotions on both sides. It's one of those subjects like religion and politics that long-time members agreed among themselves not to discuss in the interests of harmony. Occasionally someone will throw in a gun-related comment in hopes of stirring the pot, but most folks ignore it.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 03:47:15 AM by Tom »
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2006, 03:38:01 AM »
LOL Carl, you don't want the Sheriff's badge back?

BTW two of my pastimes are teasing Englishmen and teasing salesmen. The Englishman who sold me the boat was in deep trouble  ;D  But he was a good sport and we subsequently became friends.

I've also taken my share of abuse from Englishmen  :(
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 03:52:03 AM by Tom »
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JohnSandyWhite

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2006, 06:39:35 AM »
I've also taken my share of abuse from Englishmen  :(

 ;D You should see the latest advertisement on TV for Pot Noodles Tom. It's the Welsh miners working down the Pot Noodle mine. Isn't it?  ;D
Been there, done that. But I never stop learning

Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2006, 09:17:56 AM »
LOL John, I haven't seen that ad, but I bet they're all singing too  ;D
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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2006, 09:52:20 AM »
 :) There is a little mention of it here :- >> IC Wales - Pot Noodle <<. There is even a game to play :- http://www.fuelofbritain.co.uk/  ::)
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Tom

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2006, 11:41:04 AM »
Another anti-Welsh campaign by English company owners. Sounds like they even coerced some of their Welsh workers into appearing in the ads. I can hear it now - "be in the ads or be on the dole".

Maybe the colliery boys will organize a bus trip to meet with the execs and whisper some advice in their ears  ;D
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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2006, 11:49:27 AM »
Tom,

You can view the ad here http://www.visit4info.com/details.cfm?adid=33280 just hope it doesn't make you home sick  :) :)
Regards Mick & Pat Podmore.

UK couple who toured USA / Canada. Oct 2007 - Aug 2009

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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2006, 12:01:03 PM »
 ??? I searched everywhere for that one Mick.  ::) You have to admit Tom. Is is a good advert?  ;)
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Re: World Cup Football (Soccer)
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2006, 12:21:22 PM »
Thanks for the link Mick. It's definitely an insult to Welsh culture and heritage. Obviously produced/promoted by non-Welsh speaking folks - they've even spelled the name of the town (mentioned at the beginning of the commentary) incorrectly on the web page; Always a dead giveaway.

Maybe it's payback for the folk songs written and sung by Max Boyce about the abysmal performance of English rugby in the 70's  ???

John, yes it is a good ad, except for the racial slurs  ;D

[edit]Fix typos[/edit]
« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 11:56:28 AM by Tom »
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