Ray D
Well-known member
There are a few threads already going, related to this. However, my thoughts do not respond directly to the questions asked in those threads. So, I'm starting a new thread. The subject of this thread is the "risk of victimization" and "what to do about it."
Firstly, I am not a lawyer. Don?t take anything I say as legal advice. I am hoping to get some responses from others, agreeing and disagreeing with my opinions, but don?t take their comments as legal advice, either. I?d be a pretty good ?Jail House Lawyer.? And, the correct legal advice changes with the ticking of the clock and the changing digits on your GPS.
Secondly, I am not an RV expert. I came here looking for advice, not to give it. I am a member on some firearms forums, where I debate on a regular basis. I didn?t come here expecting an interest in those fields. While I have a good deal of camping, hunting and fishing experience, I am not in any way an expert on R.V. issues. I comment here, only because I know my way around a subject that seems to be popular, here.
Third Disclaimer:
I am not a Law Enforcement Officer. I have never been a LEO. On the other hand, I have pretty good training in security and defensive firearm usage, compliments of some Law Enforcement Officers who responded to crimes committed in our once lovely neighborhood, who thought I needed to carry a defensive firearm, and took me under their wings - so to speak. I paid the price, put my hunting arms back in the closet, bought the correct weaponry and advanced my training, from there. I couldn?t move away, with my terminally ill, late wife. She could not have survived a move.
I have done volunteer undercover work, both armed and unarmed, and gotten some appreciation plaques for the effort. I had some scores to settle with the drug trade, after my wife passed on. I have also been called ?cop,? ?narc,? ?pig,? and ?GDMF Vigilante,? among other unprintable epithets. I am still alive, uninjured, and have not been arrested. Some of my officer-friends tell me I am one of them, now. I carry a concealed defensive firearm, everywhere that it is legal. Just my personal choice, not advice.
Let?s start right off, by irritating any Law Enforcement Officers on the board, active or retired. Hope to jiggle some chains, here, including one chap I already like quite a bit, who owns an RV quite similar to mine. Hello???? He?s a cop! I just know he?s a cop! Pitch in, guys!
Law Enforcement Officers, on the average, are slightly better trained than the average gun owner. OK, that?s not the best I can say. Some of the best shooters and personal defense strategists in the world are cops. Some, on the other hand, qualify to carry their weapons once a year, and that?s all the shooting they do. And some of them have trouble doing even that. Some have to go back, and re-test, repeatedly. Some don?t like carrying, at all, because it?s heavy. You can?t tell who?s who, by looking. Get multiple opinions. One respondent in another thread said some cops will tell you carrying is not wise - while others advise carrying. It?s true.
I got my best training from the BGs - Bad Guys! They taught me more than they will ever know, and they taught me to take the rest of my training seriously. My second best instructor, military, teaching SWAT to LEOs. Yep, I took two of his courses. Third, and still very high on the list, cops. Formally, in class rooms, (if such can be called classrooms,) and informally. I am very grateful for all of it. Worth a large multiple of what I paid! Most of it, I paid nothing for. Extended formal classes are spendy. Expect to buy hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and a bit more for gun repairs and modifications.
First Issue:
How dangerous is it, out there, for an RVer.
I just don?t see a huge risk. (Yeah, I carry a gun, anyway.) I have been robbed. I have never been robbed in a camp-ground, nor for that matter at a campfire in the deep woods. I have heard of just a few thefts, in my lifetime of hunting and fishing equipment, except inside city limits, at the local fishing holes. I have read about a few violent crimes at remote sites. I have heard of disputes over downed game. I have twice given game, I shot, to someone willing to fight over it. I?m not willing to fight, if I can avoid it.
Next:
Do I need an alarm system.
Once again, personal choice. A drunk or a novice BG is likely to trip your alarm. An accomplished thug will find it and avoid it, or trip it and disappear, repeatedly, to shake your confidence in it. I?ve had both happen to my collection of alarm systems. I have one simple alarm system installed on my house, and several systems returned, back in the closet, in their boxes, (if anyone is interested.) It has two cameras. I have no alarm system on my RV, except for fire, gas, and CO1. Someday, I may install a system, there. Or, maybe not.
The best alarm system is an obedience trained dog. The best system for summoning help is a cell phone, even in a stick house. (Really Bad Guys will cut your wires, including your electric power.) The best system for the money is available at Radio Shack, for less than a dollar. It?s a window sticker that says, ?PROTECTED BY SILENT RADIO SHACK ALARM SYSTEM.?
And then, the cops respond to private alarms when they get around to it, if at all. Too late, for you. The accomplished BG knows this and trips your alarms to discourage you, and the cops. Pretty soon, it?s ?Oh, it?s that place, again.? Heard over the scanner - ?Hey guys. That?s a frequent flyer. Ignore it. They need to get it fixed!? Your alarm is ?crying wolf.?
What is the best defense system?
The best defense system is your brain, eyes and ears. Just don?t go - or if you?re already there, don?t stay - if you feel nervous about where you are.
Take the time to work on a good case of Paranoia, and if you are successful, get out of there! Look around. See evidence of wild parties? Lots of bullet casings? Empty alcohol containers? Trashy looking general area? Anything else you don?t like? Go somewhere else!
It?s not stupid, it?s not crazy and it?s not cowardice. They teach it in virtually all formal defense and firearms classes. You have senses that are not in your conscious mind, and you ignore them at your peril. The best cops know this, and they flat-out ?trust their instincts!? For some, that?s why they are still alive! It?s the first line of defense. Don?t leave home, without it.
In one of my volunteer experiences, I got really hinky about a man standing nearby. I beeped a cop in. I told him the guy hadn?t done anything wrong, but I just had a really bad feeling about him. I said, ?Maybe he?s OK, and I just don?t like him. I had to call!?
The cop said, ?Well, I?ll go over and talk to him for a minute. Maybe I won?t like him.?
They busted him. He was an escapee from the Missouri State Pen, and wanted for rape and murder. See, somehow, I knew that! NOT! That bad, I hadn?t even imagined!
In order of importance, the next defensive system, you will need to buy. You?re not born with it. It is insurance. In most policies it includes theft and vandalism. Make sure your?s does. It has two intended benefits. First it will replace or repair any damage from theft or vandalism. Reduces the financial hardship in most cases to $500 or less. Secondly, it?s supposed to give you peace of mind. Use it as intended, according to the directions. Sleep well.
If someone wants your RV, and is willing to let the family go, take advantage of his generosity. Once again, get out of there. You can buy another RV. Give that one to him! I carry a gun, but generosity is my first choice, in a case of this nature. If I can do that without shooting, I have a heck of a bargain! The cost of shooting, (I mean dollar cost, here,) even if you are not detained and never called to court, is a sizeable multiple of your deductible! Most likely, you will be detained, at least briefly. You will need an attorney, even if you are never charged. Even a cop, in a ?good? shooting, expects to be ?detained? for a few hours and then sent on a vacation, for a while.
Next, get a gun and the training that makes good sense for your intended use. Don?t want to do that? Good for you. Ignore the advice. It?s another one of those ?personal choice? issues. That is my order of importance. You may have a better idea.
Next, in order of importance, get a dog or two. I don?t like dogs. Never did. Got two of them, but ours are people in fuzzy coats.
The boss is a five pound Min-Pin, named Hoover. He is our alarm system and he?s impossible to fool. If he sez there?s trouble - then there is trouble. Little dogs have very fine hearing and a sense of smell that is awesome. You can?t compete and don?t try. Trust your dog! He knows what he is talking about.
Our second is a Boxer. He?s a medium sized dog. I?ll argue breed, for a protection dog, any day, all day! Boxers have been bread for more than a hundred years to be - first - safe around children and - second - to be territorial, home protection dogs. They are the only dog breed, designed for that purpose, from the beginning. They are safe, powerful, amazingly discriminatory, and absolutely love to ?play rough.? They need training, affection, and strong leadership. Ours is named Jasper, for his jasper-agate colored coat. (Hence ?Jasper?s Mom? on this forum, my wife.) (Beg me, and I?ll post a picture of Jasper and his ?mom,? playing rough.)
Please note: a ?protection? dog is not an ?attack? dog. Those are different animals, for a different purpose. Best breeds for that are German Shepherds and Doberman Pincers.
Been a long time since either of us has been threatened. But, Jasper?s purpose is to compliment my gun. He will go into the fight before I can even get my gun out. Gives me time and opportunity to develop control of the situation, while the BG is attempting to control a Boxer. If you don?t have and don?t want a gun, a medium or larger dog is nearly as good, or arguably, better. Whatever dog you choose, if you go this way, must be obedience trained and be safe around your fellow campers. Folks love Jasper. He loves them. He knows the difference between a GG (Good Guy) and a BG. How? I don?t know.
So, you and your family, dogs included, are on the way back from a beautiful hike around that pristine mountain lake. At the last turn, you know you will soon have your lovely rolling home in view. But, just before the turn, your Boxer starts to rumble. His lips begin to curl, getting out of the way of his teeth and his hair around his neck and down his back stands up. He strains on the leash! ?Let go!? he yelps! Apparently he feels needed, somewhere. (He is on a leash, isn?t he?)
Sure enough, with only a few hundred yards to go, you can already see the damage. There is a beat-up old Ford, a short distance away. Your toad has glass busted out! The BGs are probably inside the RV! ?Stay here,? you order the others. You have a job to do! You and the demonic dog have a house to clear! You must take it back! You must save the investment in your rolling home!
STOP RIGHT THERE! Get an iron grip on the dog?s leash. Gun or no gun, get back around the curve, out of sight and remember what the instructor told you the first day of ?House Clearing Class.? You did take the course, didn?t you? Remember eight, twelve hours days of dry and live fire in the hot, humid, dark, ?Fun House??
House Clearing Rule Number One: ?Don?t do house clearing!?
House Clearing Rule Number Two: ?Time is your best friend. Use it!?
House Clearing Rule Number Three: ?Get somebody else to do it!?
Have you ever watched the news, as they show a SWAT team surrounding a house. They show a second clip, and it?s dark. Then, they show a third and it?s light, again. SWAT has been there, all day and all night and it?s day, again. The BG is still inside and SWAT is still outside. There is a reason for that. ?Professional Drivers on a Closed Course. Don?t do this at home!?
You have water, because you took it with you. You have snacks and can go days without food. You can sleep in the brush, if necessary. You took your cell phone along. Follow the plan you made, originally, when you first thought this over. Find a way to get help. Cool your heels. Take your time. Time is your friend.
OK, somebody clean up my mistakes. If nobody responds to this, I will turn into a frog!
Ray D.
Firstly, I am not a lawyer. Don?t take anything I say as legal advice. I am hoping to get some responses from others, agreeing and disagreeing with my opinions, but don?t take their comments as legal advice, either. I?d be a pretty good ?Jail House Lawyer.? And, the correct legal advice changes with the ticking of the clock and the changing digits on your GPS.
Secondly, I am not an RV expert. I came here looking for advice, not to give it. I am a member on some firearms forums, where I debate on a regular basis. I didn?t come here expecting an interest in those fields. While I have a good deal of camping, hunting and fishing experience, I am not in any way an expert on R.V. issues. I comment here, only because I know my way around a subject that seems to be popular, here.
Third Disclaimer:
I am not a Law Enforcement Officer. I have never been a LEO. On the other hand, I have pretty good training in security and defensive firearm usage, compliments of some Law Enforcement Officers who responded to crimes committed in our once lovely neighborhood, who thought I needed to carry a defensive firearm, and took me under their wings - so to speak. I paid the price, put my hunting arms back in the closet, bought the correct weaponry and advanced my training, from there. I couldn?t move away, with my terminally ill, late wife. She could not have survived a move.
I have done volunteer undercover work, both armed and unarmed, and gotten some appreciation plaques for the effort. I had some scores to settle with the drug trade, after my wife passed on. I have also been called ?cop,? ?narc,? ?pig,? and ?GDMF Vigilante,? among other unprintable epithets. I am still alive, uninjured, and have not been arrested. Some of my officer-friends tell me I am one of them, now. I carry a concealed defensive firearm, everywhere that it is legal. Just my personal choice, not advice.
Let?s start right off, by irritating any Law Enforcement Officers on the board, active or retired. Hope to jiggle some chains, here, including one chap I already like quite a bit, who owns an RV quite similar to mine. Hello???? He?s a cop! I just know he?s a cop! Pitch in, guys!
Law Enforcement Officers, on the average, are slightly better trained than the average gun owner. OK, that?s not the best I can say. Some of the best shooters and personal defense strategists in the world are cops. Some, on the other hand, qualify to carry their weapons once a year, and that?s all the shooting they do. And some of them have trouble doing even that. Some have to go back, and re-test, repeatedly. Some don?t like carrying, at all, because it?s heavy. You can?t tell who?s who, by looking. Get multiple opinions. One respondent in another thread said some cops will tell you carrying is not wise - while others advise carrying. It?s true.
I got my best training from the BGs - Bad Guys! They taught me more than they will ever know, and they taught me to take the rest of my training seriously. My second best instructor, military, teaching SWAT to LEOs. Yep, I took two of his courses. Third, and still very high on the list, cops. Formally, in class rooms, (if such can be called classrooms,) and informally. I am very grateful for all of it. Worth a large multiple of what I paid! Most of it, I paid nothing for. Extended formal classes are spendy. Expect to buy hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and a bit more for gun repairs and modifications.
First Issue:
How dangerous is it, out there, for an RVer.
I just don?t see a huge risk. (Yeah, I carry a gun, anyway.) I have been robbed. I have never been robbed in a camp-ground, nor for that matter at a campfire in the deep woods. I have heard of just a few thefts, in my lifetime of hunting and fishing equipment, except inside city limits, at the local fishing holes. I have read about a few violent crimes at remote sites. I have heard of disputes over downed game. I have twice given game, I shot, to someone willing to fight over it. I?m not willing to fight, if I can avoid it.
Next:
Do I need an alarm system.
Once again, personal choice. A drunk or a novice BG is likely to trip your alarm. An accomplished thug will find it and avoid it, or trip it and disappear, repeatedly, to shake your confidence in it. I?ve had both happen to my collection of alarm systems. I have one simple alarm system installed on my house, and several systems returned, back in the closet, in their boxes, (if anyone is interested.) It has two cameras. I have no alarm system on my RV, except for fire, gas, and CO1. Someday, I may install a system, there. Or, maybe not.
The best alarm system is an obedience trained dog. The best system for summoning help is a cell phone, even in a stick house. (Really Bad Guys will cut your wires, including your electric power.) The best system for the money is available at Radio Shack, for less than a dollar. It?s a window sticker that says, ?PROTECTED BY SILENT RADIO SHACK ALARM SYSTEM.?
And then, the cops respond to private alarms when they get around to it, if at all. Too late, for you. The accomplished BG knows this and trips your alarms to discourage you, and the cops. Pretty soon, it?s ?Oh, it?s that place, again.? Heard over the scanner - ?Hey guys. That?s a frequent flyer. Ignore it. They need to get it fixed!? Your alarm is ?crying wolf.?
What is the best defense system?
The best defense system is your brain, eyes and ears. Just don?t go - or if you?re already there, don?t stay - if you feel nervous about where you are.
Take the time to work on a good case of Paranoia, and if you are successful, get out of there! Look around. See evidence of wild parties? Lots of bullet casings? Empty alcohol containers? Trashy looking general area? Anything else you don?t like? Go somewhere else!
It?s not stupid, it?s not crazy and it?s not cowardice. They teach it in virtually all formal defense and firearms classes. You have senses that are not in your conscious mind, and you ignore them at your peril. The best cops know this, and they flat-out ?trust their instincts!? For some, that?s why they are still alive! It?s the first line of defense. Don?t leave home, without it.
In one of my volunteer experiences, I got really hinky about a man standing nearby. I beeped a cop in. I told him the guy hadn?t done anything wrong, but I just had a really bad feeling about him. I said, ?Maybe he?s OK, and I just don?t like him. I had to call!?
The cop said, ?Well, I?ll go over and talk to him for a minute. Maybe I won?t like him.?
They busted him. He was an escapee from the Missouri State Pen, and wanted for rape and murder. See, somehow, I knew that! NOT! That bad, I hadn?t even imagined!
In order of importance, the next defensive system, you will need to buy. You?re not born with it. It is insurance. In most policies it includes theft and vandalism. Make sure your?s does. It has two intended benefits. First it will replace or repair any damage from theft or vandalism. Reduces the financial hardship in most cases to $500 or less. Secondly, it?s supposed to give you peace of mind. Use it as intended, according to the directions. Sleep well.
If someone wants your RV, and is willing to let the family go, take advantage of his generosity. Once again, get out of there. You can buy another RV. Give that one to him! I carry a gun, but generosity is my first choice, in a case of this nature. If I can do that without shooting, I have a heck of a bargain! The cost of shooting, (I mean dollar cost, here,) even if you are not detained and never called to court, is a sizeable multiple of your deductible! Most likely, you will be detained, at least briefly. You will need an attorney, even if you are never charged. Even a cop, in a ?good? shooting, expects to be ?detained? for a few hours and then sent on a vacation, for a while.
Next, get a gun and the training that makes good sense for your intended use. Don?t want to do that? Good for you. Ignore the advice. It?s another one of those ?personal choice? issues. That is my order of importance. You may have a better idea.
Next, in order of importance, get a dog or two. I don?t like dogs. Never did. Got two of them, but ours are people in fuzzy coats.
The boss is a five pound Min-Pin, named Hoover. He is our alarm system and he?s impossible to fool. If he sez there?s trouble - then there is trouble. Little dogs have very fine hearing and a sense of smell that is awesome. You can?t compete and don?t try. Trust your dog! He knows what he is talking about.
Our second is a Boxer. He?s a medium sized dog. I?ll argue breed, for a protection dog, any day, all day! Boxers have been bread for more than a hundred years to be - first - safe around children and - second - to be territorial, home protection dogs. They are the only dog breed, designed for that purpose, from the beginning. They are safe, powerful, amazingly discriminatory, and absolutely love to ?play rough.? They need training, affection, and strong leadership. Ours is named Jasper, for his jasper-agate colored coat. (Hence ?Jasper?s Mom? on this forum, my wife.) (Beg me, and I?ll post a picture of Jasper and his ?mom,? playing rough.)
Please note: a ?protection? dog is not an ?attack? dog. Those are different animals, for a different purpose. Best breeds for that are German Shepherds and Doberman Pincers.
Been a long time since either of us has been threatened. But, Jasper?s purpose is to compliment my gun. He will go into the fight before I can even get my gun out. Gives me time and opportunity to develop control of the situation, while the BG is attempting to control a Boxer. If you don?t have and don?t want a gun, a medium or larger dog is nearly as good, or arguably, better. Whatever dog you choose, if you go this way, must be obedience trained and be safe around your fellow campers. Folks love Jasper. He loves them. He knows the difference between a GG (Good Guy) and a BG. How? I don?t know.
So, you and your family, dogs included, are on the way back from a beautiful hike around that pristine mountain lake. At the last turn, you know you will soon have your lovely rolling home in view. But, just before the turn, your Boxer starts to rumble. His lips begin to curl, getting out of the way of his teeth and his hair around his neck and down his back stands up. He strains on the leash! ?Let go!? he yelps! Apparently he feels needed, somewhere. (He is on a leash, isn?t he?)
Sure enough, with only a few hundred yards to go, you can already see the damage. There is a beat-up old Ford, a short distance away. Your toad has glass busted out! The BGs are probably inside the RV! ?Stay here,? you order the others. You have a job to do! You and the demonic dog have a house to clear! You must take it back! You must save the investment in your rolling home!
STOP RIGHT THERE! Get an iron grip on the dog?s leash. Gun or no gun, get back around the curve, out of sight and remember what the instructor told you the first day of ?House Clearing Class.? You did take the course, didn?t you? Remember eight, twelve hours days of dry and live fire in the hot, humid, dark, ?Fun House??
House Clearing Rule Number One: ?Don?t do house clearing!?
House Clearing Rule Number Two: ?Time is your best friend. Use it!?
House Clearing Rule Number Three: ?Get somebody else to do it!?
Have you ever watched the news, as they show a SWAT team surrounding a house. They show a second clip, and it?s dark. Then, they show a third and it?s light, again. SWAT has been there, all day and all night and it?s day, again. The BG is still inside and SWAT is still outside. There is a reason for that. ?Professional Drivers on a Closed Course. Don?t do this at home!?
You have water, because you took it with you. You have snacks and can go days without food. You can sleep in the brush, if necessary. You took your cell phone along. Follow the plan you made, originally, when you first thought this over. Find a way to get help. Cool your heels. Take your time. Time is your friend.
OK, somebody clean up my mistakes. If nobody responds to this, I will turn into a frog!
Ray D.