New Ford F-250/350 gas engine with 13,000 lbs 5th wheel

Thanks for all the input.

Here's my thinking on the subject.
I expect to keep whatever truck I buy for about 6 years and should put approximately 100,000 miles on it in that time. I know a lot of you will say a diesel is good for way more miles than that, and I agree. But in my experience other things in the truck start to go down hill after that and I would just rather not deal with all that. In that 100,000 miles the truck will probably be pulling the 5th wheel about 25 percent of the time and other smaller trailers about the same amount.

I realize that a gas engine will not get the fuel mileage that a diesel would, but if you take into account the additional $8,000 upfront cost of the diesel option, the higher price of diesel fuel and the additional maintenance costs for the diesel. The costs over the 100,000 miles favor the gas engine, but this is so close that it really isn't a deciding factor.

I currently have a diesel and I just don't see the attraction.  I hate looking for fuel on the road. I don't like pulling into a station that has one diesel pump and a car sitting in front of it with the oblivious driver inside drinking a latte. I don't like continually changing fuel filters. I don't like keeping it warm in the winter so the fuel doesn't gel and I don't like it leaking oil all over my garage floor.

I think the only thing I do like about the diesel is the way it pulls and that was the point of this post.

 



Just for info. I am driving a 2012 F250 6.2L gas engine with a 3.73 rear and 10,000 lb GVW, 4X4 towing a 2012 Keystone Cougar grossing out at 11,275 lb. Just came back from a 2,500 mile trip from Lake George,NY to Chicago, IL. and back, Through wind and rain one storm on the was out and one on the way back up and down the Adirondack Mountains. No problems. Granted they are not the Rockies but still I could maintain speed 60 mph with no problem.

Gary & Gail Living the Good Life

With ours we average between 8 to 9 pulling and 12 to 15 empty. The empty mileage is had to say because I doesn't have many empty mileage. On our 11K mileage trip to Alaska we averaged 8.93 and our last 8K trip to the maritime's and then to Florida we averaged 8.2. I like to use long trips only because it gives a better average because it averages out wind and traffic conditions.

Denny 

ttyR2 said:

What kind of mileage are you guys seeing between a gasser and diesel?

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Most of you are only seeing 6-8 MPG with a gasoline engine I typically see at least 13-14 MPG with my 5.9L Cummins diesel. As for lifespan of diesel most diesel engines will live well into 500-600K miles. I know of several Cummins diesel around me from 600K to 1.2 MILLION miles. So when your looking at life span of a engine diesel is the only way to go because gasoline lifespan is extremely short compared to diesel.

http://i55.tinypic.com/20ggyva.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2gyc7cy.jpg

As for torque a diesel engine produces more torque at lower RPM's vs. gasoline because of the nature of the engine and fuel. Like on a stock Dodge Cummins truck (2nd Gen) its 235/460 or 245/505 (hp/tq). But after a few mods to my truck I'm now up to 381/831 when I dyno'ed back it 2007. Then I moded a bit more and now close to 400/900 (guestimate). As for my fuel mileage I've kept records of fuel since 20K miles to current and stock it was 16-18 MPH roughly after all the mods now...

http://i49.tinypic.com/2zox0yw.jpg (Empty)

Now if they could just figure out a way to make the rest of the truck last as long as the engine. 

Frizlefrak said:

Now if they could just figure out a way to make the rest of the truck last as long as the engine. 

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No joke... ;D

189k miles on my 2000 F-350 and it's in great shape, structurally, mechanically, etc. No complaints.

ttyR2 said:

189k miles on my 2000 F-350 and it's in great shape, structurally, mechanically, etc. No complaints.

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Much of it is how they're maintained.  Fix the small stuff along the way, do the maintenance, and they run forever.

Exactly!

I have a 2015 F 250 pulling a 12,000 lb 5th wheel, I took it to Wyo. wish I had kept my DURMAX the 6.2 could not pull the mountains I was doing all I could do and a DURAMAX went by me pulling TWO trailers like I was standing still of course no other gas  trucks went by me. Love the Ford hate the engine and how it tows I call it my flat land truck, keep the diesel in my opinion.

One factor that's often left out of these conversations is the effect of altitude on power. At 10,000 feet under standard temperature and humidity conditions you can expect a 30% reduction in power from sea level in a normally-aspirated engine.
Turbocharging reduces the loss by at least half, so the turbocharged diesel's torque advantage increases as you climb.
Here's a short article: http://speedydaddy.com/the-effect-of-altitude-on-a-car-or-truck-engine/

Gary RV Roamer said:

The biggest gas engine you can now get in the GM pick-ups is the 6.0L V8, so you are giving up a lot of low end torque, even though it is still rated for 360 hp @5400 rpms. Ford is similar with a 6.2L V8 that produces 385 hp but not until you wind it up to 5500 rpms. It's a more sedate 316 hp @ 4200.

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you can still get a 6.2 l in a chevy 1500 6.0 l in the 2500/3500

One of the reason I do own a Turbo Diesel truck here in the mountains of Idaho.

Mopar1973Man said:

One of the reason I do own a Turbo Diesel truck here in the mountains of Idaho.

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those arent mountains those are potatoes lol love Idaho gonna miss Priest Lake this year (too many going couldnt get enough spots)

steveblonde said:

those arent mountains those are potatoes lol love Idaho gonna miss Priest Lake this year (too many going couldnt get enough spots)

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(Shaking my head)  : I've here in Idaho for 25 years and never seen a potatoe plant yet. Most wheat, Rape Seed, and other things. But no potatoes around here.

then you need to open your eyes lol world famous Idaho Potatoes there are lots around Hayden area we cross the Border at Yak just north of Bonners Ferry we will be through there Thursday morning stopping at Spudz in Sandpoint for one of the best Sandwiches on the planet i've driven to Sandpoint just for a sandwich lol.  also some of the best scenery in the world and some of the nicest people around.

I loved Idaho when we were there.  I'd move there in a heartbeat if it weren't so damn cold and the winters so long.  I don't want to spend my waning years shoveling snow.  But the scenery is amazing, the people are friendly, and it's.....well, let's just say it's congruent with my way of thinking.

bross said:

Thanks for all the input.

Here's my thinking on the subject.
I expect to keep whatever truck I buy for about 6 years and should put approximately 100,000 miles on it in that time. I know a lot of you will say a diesel is good for way more miles than that, and I agree. But in my experience other things in the truck start to go down hill after that and I would just rather not deal with all that. In that 100,000 miles the truck will probably be pulling the 5th wheel about 25 percent of the time and other smaller trailers about the same amount.

I realize that a gas engine will not get the fuel mileage that a diesel would, but if you take into account the additional $8,000 upfront cost of the diesel option, the higher price of diesel fuel and the additional maintenance costs for the diesel. The costs over the 100,000 miles favor the gas engine, but this is so close that it really isn't a deciding factor.

I currently have a diesel and I just don't see the attraction.  I hate looking for fuel on the road. I don't like pulling into a station that has one diesel pump and a car sitting in front of it with the oblivious driver inside drinking a latte. I don't like continually changing fuel filters. I don't like keeping it warm in the winter so the fuel doesn't gel and I don't like it leaking oil all over my garage floor.

I think the only thing I do like about the diesel is the way it pulls and that was the point of this post.

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Here's a little real world experience from someone that pulls a 15,000 fiver.

My truck gets 8 mpg pulling that trailer...period.  Moparman might get 12-13 pulling his TT but he doesn't have the weight or frontal area to deal with that those of us with big fivers do. He has also tuned the engine which really highlights the efficiency along with adding some phenomenal power.  Being in the rodeo industry and traveling all around the country, I've asked many of the other guys what mileage they get pulling their 15-17,000 lb horse trailers.  With that much weight, everyone is getting in the 8-10 mpg range.

If I wasn't pulling trailers so often (and really love a diesel engine), I would certainly go for the gas engine option.  Here's the breakdown of the math based on how many miles you said you would be pulling:

You said 100,000 miles in six year.  That's 16,600 miles per year and you said you would be pulling your fiver for 25% of those which means 4,150 miles per year with your big trailer attached.

GAS ENGINE

4,150 miles @ 6 mpg = 691 gallons of gas
691 gallons times $2.75 (price here today) = $1,902.08 per year

DIESEL ENGINE

4,150 @ 8 = 518.75
518.75 x $2.42 (price here today) = $1,255.37 per year

MOPARMANS DIESEL MPG

4,150 @ 12 = 345.8
345.8 x $2.42 = $836.83 per year

Even with an $1,100 a year difference between fuel prices between the absolute best case scenarios, you're still not going to break even in your time frame on just the diesel engine option.  Using what I consider to be the true fuel mileage when pulling these big trailers, you wouldn't break even for over 12 years on just the engine price alone.

You may have to rev a gas engine and you may not be the first to the top of the hill but you will still have the fattest wallet when you get done with the truck.

lone_star_dsl...Close...

But now toss on the longevity of the power plant. Diesel engine only need oil changes and filter change so maintenance is lower. Even my truck only needs a oil change every 10k miles compared to gasoline with spark plug, wires, oil change more often. As for my ISB 24V Cummins it will last 1 MILLION miles, So in the time you buy 4 vehicles I'll still be going with the same diesel. So I'm still way ahead with a super fat wallet. I've documented several diesel truck owners going well past 1 million miles.
http://cumminsengines.com/million-mile-club

Most gasoline power plants are tired by 200k when towing heavy and revving hard.

I'm already att 250k miles now and still rolling... So you would be buying a new truck now and I'm head towards my next goal 1/2 million.

Then on fuel mileage now jump up to 22-25 MPG empty. Different ball game.

Another factor. I'm not stock either my truck is playing the same field of power as the new 2015 truck I'm right at 400 HP / 900 TQ.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/members-rides/17-mopar1973man/25-2002-dodge-ram-2500

I see a lot beat down old worn out diesel motorhomes..... with less than 200k miles all the time

those people payed twice as much to have a "million mile" diesel motor..... in a vehicle that will just sit there all outdated and unused, with less than 200k miles on it ?

I wonder how many old worn out 25 year old motorhomes get crushed with perfectly good diesel motors in them ?