Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair

What if the folks asked for your facebook page?

I always search facebook before renting my condos... Amassing or amusing what you can find out about people. 

I don't think asking for a picture of you and/or your RV is discrimination. It takes the place of in-person interviewing where you get to see what the potential employee/volunteer looks like. If they refuse to hire you because of race or sex or age, and you can prove it, then you've got a case.

Wendy, I like your answer. I hesitate to write this post as it might stereo-type me too in this  PC ( politically correct) World ).

  I have never hired a person in my life sight unseen. A picture is worth a thousand words. A resum? is in fact advertising.  In turn I would never buy a potential asset: employee --RV--House-- property-- a partner--or a living animal without checking it out as best as possible. As you said, there is little chance of a lawsuit for rejecting any of the above. It's a free country--ain't it.

  The only ad (resum?) I trust is is with a personal inspection. i.e the personal interview.

  Imagine the disappointment one may face after hiring a person (by mail) of unknown character or appearance.

  Ok, I'll go sit in my corner now..  (Life is tough when trying to make a living).

If I send the picture and they see how ugly  I am and they hire me I know I have the job when I arrive. Irover

I think you got a bad attitude to begin with to tell the truth. Your first thought is oh I being discriminated against cause you didn't get the job, but you have no idea why you didn't get the job., maybe you were not even close to being qualified on paper for the job. Being able to sue is completely out of hand in this country! It does make a difference how one looks for a given job! You need to be approachable to all people in this job including kids, look like you care before anyone can know if you know anything. If your camp Host drives a big piece of junk for an RV do you think you want him/her to touch your RV to see why you have no power?  Yea there are bad/wrong people out there also but from what you list here you are not showing that they did anything wrong except for crazy people that believe looks and such make no difference in life! Hey why didn't you marry that great guy/girl, they were ugly but they were great people, they should sue you cause they were hurt. I know I sound real harsh but this all does matter how people look and take care of things for them selves, if they are expected to take care of things for others, Clean and Neat matters! And no ones can tell that with out at lease seeing you and your RV! 

DearMissMermaid said:

For the first time ever, I ran into a workamping situation where  they would not consider my application until I attached both a picture of me and my rig.  They also claimed thew weren't making a decision for 10 more days.

It started out with me sending an enthusiastic letter of inquiry, to make sure the position was still available. I hate just sending off my detailed personal information to unknown sources.  I listed the reasons why I thought I would be a prefect fit for the situation advertised.  A lady wrote back acting very interested, also asking for my resume, references and the required pics.

A few days later, I had the pictures made and sent off my application with 8 days remaining.  My experience  was perfect for the workamping job advertised, so I was expecting to hear back from them at the end of the 8-10 days.

Instead, they immediately shot back a canned reply that the position had been filled.  Apparently they didn't wait the 10 days.

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While I am a firm believer in a face to face interview for a final decision, I think the  information  provided by MissM shows that the employeer did indeed change the "rules" or story they told her.  For that reason  alone I am glad she did not go work for them.  Not trying to stir the pot... Just sayin. 

I have waited to get into this fray, but maybe it is drifting so?.let?s split some hair.

The title of the post ?picture requirement ? fair or unfair? is not punctuated as a question. Let?s agree it is, and the answer should be binary, yes or no, but realistically can be answered as ?fair ? maybe not, legal ? on shaky legs, reasonable ? depends on whose ox is being gored and where your ego and feelings are.?

I don?t think it is unreasonable for an employer of a park with a huge investment to start at the top of his ?what does a customer see and want?? tree and work down. Personally, having done background checks in the police department and sorted through some very creative resumes (people, really, lie about your credentials to the police department you want to hire you???), the written weighs more with me, added to the verbal interview and body language, and the picture is optional. But that all assumes I get a face to face before hiring. But I do always reserve the right to cull in the interview process, anywhere I feel like it.

But there?s a second question in the OP which bears looking at, and that is the employer saying they would not make a decision for ten days and then changing their mind. Especially after our potential employee, against her convictions, made the effort to provide the requested information. While that?s probably bad form, again we have an ox issue. The employer deserves to hire the person he wants and not let them get away (been there, done that) so the potential employee is left with short sheets and bad feelings, again possibly reasonable under the circumstances. But yes, I would feel bad, too, if someone said one thing and did another.

Our applicant states her ?experience is perfect? but isn?t that really up to the employer to decide? Is it really our place as suitors to demand a match?

Miss Mermaid, this reply is very tongue in cheek, and I would not want to pour salt in your wound, but it really is a world where great people are often overlooked and very substandard people are picked and God forbid, promoted. The fit was not there in this case, ultimately either way, and perhaps you dodged a bullet from someone who might not have treated you as well as they should.

I hope this experience leaves you free to find a much better opportunity, but as always you still have choices. My wife, the therapist, says ?happiness is a choice?. Indeed.

Kim

p.s. the one and only workamping gig I ever looked at had similar requirements, and I laughed, and sent my best picture, taken the day I got married.  8)

Well I am truly surprised at how many people put a huge emphasis on a picture before interviewing or hiring for a part time temporary workamping gig.

I am certainly not looking for a lawsuit, good grief. 

Matter of fact, at one workamping gig,  I worked with a couple that would look great in a picture, new 5th wheel, nice looking couple,  but...  if anyone asked me to give a reference on them, I would say they were cantankerous, disagreeable, undependable and hard as heck to work around (all true!) but hey, they make a great picture, hire them for their looks.  ;D

Apparently, I wasn't the only one who thought they were difficult, five people quit because of them and I can't say I blame them.

On the other hand, this whole business of image projection and stuff, when I think back to checking in at various parks and all the numerous park hosts I've met and seen around...  it didn't matter to me what the person checking me in or camp hosting looked like, as long as they were able to handle my check-in (and stay) without giving me any grief. 

Whether they were old or young, fat or skinny, ugly or beautiful, of one race or another,  I really didn't care, I just wanted someone polite to take my money.

One day a check-in person did give me a heap of grief and even yelled at me while I was checking in. I was new to RV-ing and I was so stunned and flabbergasted, I was barely able to mumble  "I've changed my mind". 

I was dead tired, but I found another campground by telephone 30 miles out in the boonies.  The rates were about half of what the other place was charging, so frankly, I wasn't expecting much.  But I arrived at a beautiful well maintained park. They acted as if they knew I had been through a rough time, it was so surreal, they went out of their way to make me feel welcomed, certainly far more than I expected. My one nighter turned into a week's stay.  They had set the tone for the entire campground, it seemed everyone was friendly,  relaxed, polite and happy, both campers and staff.

I may not always even remember how people look, but I surely remember how they made me feel.

Whether they were old or young, fat or skinny, ugly or beautiful, of one race or another,  I really didn't care, I just wanted someone polite to take my money.

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If I asked for a picture while hiring someone, whether volunteer or paid, full-time or part-time, my reason for wanting the picture wouldn't be to look for those things. It would be more a matter of clean and neat, and "normal" looking for the place I was hiring for. A phone interview could check for politeness, which is certainly a requirement. Fortunately, I don't have to hire anyone

Wendy

Wendy, I have a photo to submit that is the epitome of cleanliness, neatness and normalcy, but you probably wouldn't hire me anyway, since it's a photo of my neighbor lady.  Should I still feel victimized?

This has been a most entertaining topic. 

Common sense goes a long way, Lou. Can anyone defy it...yes many people do. Go, Lou. You have a lot left.

Just Lou said:

Wendy, I have a photo to submit that is the epitome of cleanliness, neatness and normalcy, but you probably wouldn't hire me anyway, since it's a photo of my neighbor lady.  Should I still feel victimized?

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Lou, I find it impossible to imagine you ever feeling victimized. And if you listed yourself as "M" and sent a picture of an "F" you'd be off my list of potentials...unless I was hiring a comedian.

Wendy

That is the very reason that I only look for workamping positions at State Parks. I have allways applied on line or by telephone and I've never had them ask about the age or appearance of me or my trailer. It is a shame that some folks might judge you by the RV that you can afford. It's too bad that we live in a society where park owners feel like they need to present an UPSCALE image. There are so many State Parks in the country that finding a desirable workamping position isn't a major task.
I would rather enjoy the RV lifestyle with an older RV than sit and watch TV until I pass away.

Best wishes

If any of you think that discrimination is dead, you are living in a "bubble".  I have mixed feelings about having to provide pictures of your rig, but requiring your picture as part of the resume should be off limits.  If you want to verify their qualifications, follow up on their references.  If they don't have sufficient references, you have every right to either ask for more, or deny the application.
++Larry

Personally, I see no problem with the need to provide a picture of self and rig.  The owner certainly has an idea of what image they want their park to project.  For example, someone who wants to run an upscale park would not want someone with tattoo sleeves on both arms working in a position as one of the first faces in the company that people see when they walk in, and I take no issue with that.

In addition, if I were in a position to hire, the last thing I would want is to hire someone that I have no idea what they look like.  In the absence of face-to-face interviews, a "recent" photo is the only option, and I would stress recent.  I would also have an idea of the duties at hand in the position and, if some ability to move and do some grunt work around the park were necessary, I'd probably get a bunch of "absolutely, I have no problem doing that" responses.  If I were to hire someone sight unseen and, lo-and-behold, some 400lb-er walks through the door sucking air just from walking from the camper parked right in front and intruduces himself "Hey, I'm George, your workamper", I'd certainly be quite unhappy about needing to find a replacement on the spot in a rush.

Just because you were denied doesn't mean that you didn't fit their needs, were too ugly, didn't like your rig, thought you were too fat, too skinny, too white, too black, too tall, too short, not blonde enough, too blonde, wore a pink shirt when they hate pink, or have funny looking feet.  Just means that they got someone who replied first that they felt met their needs and took them immediately because they didn't want them to get away and take another opportunity while waiting for your or anyone/everyone else's response.

My mom is a traveling nurse and she has had several Skype interviews because it's just too hard to get a real feel for an applicant over the phone.  I personally thing that is a better approach than the photo of self and rig idea.  Face to face interviews provide valuble feedback about how a person responds to questions in ways that telephone interviews just dont do.  Just my opinion though.

Jeff

I know this is an old post, but I stumbled across it so others may as well.

Providing a photo during an interview process is not uncommon at all...in any types of employment.  Particularly when they intend to make a hiring decision without a face to face interview.  Skype video interviews are even becoming popular for first interviews that in the past were done over the phone.  Not only is it more personable, but you also get to observe the person's appearance and body language.

Stop looking for "discrimination"...there are plenty of other legitimate reasons why they want to see a photo that have nothing to do with race/gender/age.

If I were to hire someone to represent my business, I want to see what kind of an image they portray.  For workcamping...that would include their rig since it will be sitting on my property.

Are you clean cut?  Professional looking?  Do what you want in your personal life, but when you are on my time clock, you represent my business.  Facial piercings, visible tattoos, ripped clothing, etc.  Did you care enough about your image to dress up a little for the photo?

I know these are all judgmental things,  but as others have said, employers have the luxury of being particular.

Good topic.  Wendy, I think you stepped into it.  Please define "normal".

I can remember when "discriminating" was a complement - it meant that people had good judgement and taste. Had nothing to do with prejudicial behavior. Now anybody who wishes to maintain some minimal standard of decor and behavior is automatically a bad person. Arghh!

Well said Gary!