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Author Topic: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair  (Read 15731 times)

DearMissMermaid

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Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« on: August 30, 2012, 11:44:12 AM »
For the first time ever, I ran into a workamping situation where  they would not consider my application until I attached both a picture of me and my rig.  They also claimed thew weren't making a decision for 10 more days.

It started out with me sending an enthusiastic letter of inquiry, to make sure the position was still available. I hate just sending off my detailed personal information to unknown sources.  I listed the reasons why I thought I would be a prefect fit for the situation advertised.  A lady wrote back acting very interested, also asking for my resume, references and the required pics.

 A few days later, I had the pictures made and sent off my application with 8 days remaining.  My experience  was perfect for the workamping job advertised, so I was expecting to hear back from them at the end of the 8-10 days.

Instead, they immediately shot back a canned reply that the position had been filled.  Apparently they didn't wait the 10 days.

I felt like  I lost the beauty contest, either with my face or my rig.

Luckily I found workamping elsewhere that didn't require up front pics.

Is this picture requirement a new method for discriminating against age and race?   

Since I haven't been back in America that long, I really have no idea what the latest discrimination techniques are.

I am just curious what other experienced workampers think about this picture requirement. 
http://DearMissMermaid.Com

Living, working. playing  in a Class C, 1994 Tioga Montara, 28'

Pack half the stuff and twice the cash.
http://dearmissmermaid.blogspot.com/

DearMissMermaid

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 03:41:23 PM »
WOW. after a week not a soul has an opinion on this. Amazing.
http://DearMissMermaid.Com

Living, working. playing  in a Class C, 1994 Tioga Montara, 28'

Pack half the stuff and twice the cash.
http://dearmissmermaid.blogspot.com/

Betty Brewer

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 03:58:56 PM »
Dear Miss,

I have an opinion on the practice but you asked for info from experienced work Kampers which I am not. This may be why  you have not heard from more of us. 

But now since you mentioned it,  the requirement of sending a photo for an older motorhome is  well established in RV Parks that want to  maintain an " upscale" image. Many exceptions are granted when/if rigs are well maintained.

 However I can see no reason for requiring a personal photo that does not involve discrimination of some kind, gender, age, ethnicity, beauty contest??????  I think you should be glad they filled the position.  You wouldn't have wanted to work for them anyway in my opinion with that  kind of back door politics!

Good question to ask.  I was a school administrator in California and we  had  a LONG  list of things we could not ask in employment interviews  due to the perception of discrimination.  Resumes did not require  photos.
Betty Brewer

see where we are

M1894

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 04:02:30 PM »
Sometimes it can be that a previous employee has applied, and they feel comfortable with them. Sometimes someone has just the qualifications they are looking for that could be better qualified than the rest of the applicants, and they don't want to loose out. And it could be that they are one of those parks that want to cater to the higher cost rigs and don't want an older unit there as representing the park. In any event they should have either waited the ten days and notified you that someone else was more qualified.or given you their reason why your application was not considered.

Sorry that the person had no tact, but you might be better off not having to work with someone with no consideration for the feelings of others.


Lee


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Paul & Ann

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2012, 04:03:44 PM »
It seems that there are more and more people wanting to workamp, so employers can be more picky who they chose.  Supply and demand at work.

It still sucks if you were passed over because of a picture, but I do agree with Betty, it probably not be a good place for you to work anyway.

Paul
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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DearMissMermaid

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 08:02:35 PM »
My rig is well maintained and not in risk of foreclosure either.   But if they insist on new rigs, they should say so. 

In the interim, Florida State Parks  and US Army Corp of Engineers filled up 8 out of the next 12 months, so I will just travel the other 4 months. At least doggy and I will be warm for the winter and cool for the summer with time to roll around in our wheel estate.

I'm excited and flattered.

Campgrounds and RV Parks are part of the hospitality industry. Owners, managers etc with  snobby attitudes need to reconsider their career choice.

Having traveled extensively for decades, I don't cotton to folks that are so narrow minded. 

If they think someone living in an older rig doesn't maintain the proper image. Good grief. They need to climb out of their cubicle, go out and look at the world around them.
http://DearMissMermaid.Com

Living, working. playing  in a Class C, 1994 Tioga Montara, 28'

Pack half the stuff and twice the cash.
http://dearmissmermaid.blogspot.com/

99WinAdventurer37G

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 09:24:47 PM »
As Paul & Ann said, I think it's the law of supply and demand at work.   

My Dad, who was in personnel at a major company, always told me to "wear my best."   In addition, I should make sure that my resume would "stand out from the rest" to get noticed and rise above the other candidates.  As well as have the skills the employer is looking for in a candidate.

So, if you had the choice between several candidates, knowing what you know about other work campers, what there resumes/skills may be, would you hire you? 

I would have used I, in place of you, but I'm not a work camper,... Yet.  Not sure if I'd want to do that as I may not like what they want me to do.  But then again, my unit is a 1999 so if there are a glut of work campers out there, I may need to save just a little more.  Just sayin...

But I'd say the picture requirement would cause me not to apply for the position, that just doesn't sit well with me.  So I probably wouldn't get along well with them anyway.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:27:48 PM by Heglmeier »
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odie1234

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 08:26:40 AM »
While it may not be fair, most things in life are not. Making hiring decisions based on an employer's desire to project a certain image is not at all unusual. Restaurants many times want servers to look a certain way, resort pool lifeguards are expected to present a certain image of fitness and attractiveness, and, even during my time in manufacturing, employees were expected to project a certain appearance. Have you ever noticed that most large company executives/managers seem to pretty much fit the attractive, "class a personality" mode? I have a very good friend who owns/runs several resort motels around Orlando. Last time I talked with him he was agonizing over what to do about his best night manager who had, for some reason, decided to get an in your face tatoo on his neck. The young man was going to lose his job because he changed his appearance dramatically.

People tend to hire others who fit a certain mold that appeals to them, whether they admit it to themselves or not - you are more comfortable, naturally, around others who fit your mental comfort zone. Other than insisting on a personal interview, how else could the campground ensure their workers fit the mold they wish their business to project?

PancakeBill

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 09:10:07 AM »
Good morning, I would have responded earlier just never noticed the subject, sometimes as easy as that.  Jolene and I have never submitted a photo but I have seen many requirements for this.  Now that I am in the position of hiring work campers, I don't know what that would do for me.  I prefer in person interviews, but mostly to see how the interviewee presents him or herself.  We hire after either in person or on the phone interviews. 

As to application being filed form letter, I fnd no dismissal in that.  They are merely letting you know they have received and filed, puts your mind at ease that it is not lost in the mail.  If they are like us, we get tons of applications, and after filtering through all of them, and setting them in tiers, some for interviews some just not qualified, to some that really stand out. 

I would hope that if the place is responsible, you will receive another letter, form or not, thanking you for the interest and letting you know it has been filled, or requesting an interview. 

I would like to have photos submitted with ours, just so I can picture who I am talking with on the phone, another memory tick, to set it in my mind.  Our HR won't let us ask. 

To completely set aside any thought they are making any discriminatory decision, all apps would have no names, only numbers, through some sort of clearinghouse.  All apps interviewed by third party. 
Bill & Jolene W & Koda

Old Faithful, Yellowstone Association Bookstore
1997 Southwind 35P
Toads: 1997 Honda Accord & 1986 Westfalia
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Jim Godward

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 08:42:39 PM »
It has been a long time since I was hiring people but on the application there was no place for age, race or anything that would give a clue as to those items, i.e., education but no years, etc.  NO photos either.  If the person had also sent a resume, all those items were blanked out too.  Made it some what difficult to evaluate a person for a high level position.

If we were interested, some additonal relavent information was provided by our HR people but that was still fairly well sanitized to avoid discrimination by age, race, etc. 

My son is in the job hunting mode and it is interesting the way things are.
Jim
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BruceinFL

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 02:18:24 PM »
Got no problem with it. Takes the place of an in person interview if one is not possible.
Bruce A.
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Irover

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2012, 08:16:28 PM »
 ??? At least with a mug shot they will know that I'm ugly an there would be no surprises. LOL! If my mugshot or my rig is not of the appearance the employer wants in their establishment then I would rather not be hired then drive 500 to a  thousand miles for nothing.  8) I really don't want to waste their time or mine.
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DinnerDiva

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 10:43:20 PM »
Miss Mermaid,  I concur with the others on the forum.  I don't think I'd be interested in working for a place such as the one to which you applied.  You should consider yourself lucky that you didn't travel clear to where ever the job was only to find snobbish folks who are interested more in appearance than substance.  I have hired my share of employees in my time and I can tell you - I've never really considered looks or other outside appearances when making a decision - I'd rather have someone who is dedicated, knows how to conduct themselves professionally.  The face to face interveiw is always the best because you got a sense of the person and the way they presented themselves - I was hiring auditors.  Anyway, from reading your blog (I'm a dedicated reader) I think they missed out on a gem - their loss!
Jane and Adrian with Oscar and Nikko (two ornery cats)
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PancakeBill

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 08:49:55 AM »
Pictures can eliminat the question of full facial tattoo questions.
Bill & Jolene W & Koda

Old Faithful, Yellowstone Association Bookstore
1997 Southwind 35P
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Irover

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 08:11:43 PM »
 ;D Especially if your walking backwards!!!!! LOL!
Don't ever give up!! keep pushing toward the goal!!!
USAEUR; 1st Armored Div., E Co.123rd Maintenance Btln. 71-74

DearMissMermaid

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2012, 11:25:05 PM »
Oh I understand all about projecting image, but to base a workamper part time gig that doesn't even pay cash, just rent, soley on looks and nothing else just seems absurd to me.  I wasn't looking for a date or mate, just a workamping gig that wanted to utilize my vast hospitality skills.

That being said...  back in the dark ages when I worked as an executive, I had to pay professionals to teach me how to apply makeup in under two hours with a trowel to hide my scars because people are in fact  highly prejudicial. 

I was just hoping in these days and times that folks were more accepting of folks different from them, but I guess not.

Yet when I worked at sea on yachts, your multitude of skills and attitude were at the forefront of scrutiny for hiring.  Merely being good looking wasn't going to save your soul if there was peril at sea, so they were most interested in your true skills.  If you were good looking, it might be a bonus, but it certainly wasn't a main hiring criteria.

Some people are born lucky and good looking, the rest of us have to deal with reality.

Anymore requests for pictures and I am tossing it in the garbage.

The funny thing is, though, I have noticed that many people when asked to supply a picture, often supply one that is 10-20-30 years old!  Then when they walk in the door, you don't even recognize them. So that RV Park may be in for shock when their chosen shows up.

About 10 years ago, my hermit friend was using a dating site, he was in his  70's and he got really excited about a young good looking woman who sent him a letter with a picture. He showed me her pic and I could tell her clothes were way out of style.  I flipped over the picture and it was printed by Kodak in 1968 and he had not noticed that at all.  We had a great laugh about that.

He asked me if I thought she looked the same now and I giggled and said probably not, but you could blow up the pic to 8x10 and stick it on her face when you go to bed with her. We about killed ourselves laughing at the very idea of such absurdity.   He never did get to meet her, but they corresponded for years.

 
http://DearMissMermaid.Com

Living, working. playing  in a Class C, 1994 Tioga Montara, 28'

Pack half the stuff and twice the cash.
http://dearmissmermaid.blogspot.com/

PancakeBill

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 09:18:10 AM »
Thing is, we really don't know that this is any kind of 'beauty' contest,  that is the assumption.  Most pics of a couple in front of their motorhome, you can't tell anything about them anyway.  Plus, because when you get an acknowlledgment it has been received and filed, does not mean rejected.  We post beginning of Oct for apps, receive, file and act upon them end of November, hore late December. 

Lots of assumptions being made.

Bill & Jolene W & Koda

Old Faithful, Yellowstone Association Bookstore
1997 Southwind 35P
Toads: 1997 Honda Accord & 1986 Westfalia
FMCA F-401354
1995 OMI Dobro F-60
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Betty Brewer

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 09:25:21 AM »
Actually earlier in this thread  Miss M said  they did  receive her app and when she called they told her  the position had been filled (and prior to the 10 days they told her the apps were being accepted.) So the story has a bad feel from them from the get go.  Given the good times she has posted since her " rejection" from that job, I'd say she came out the winner!
Betty Brewer

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Greg H.

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
Fair or not, if I were a campground owner, I'd like to learn as much as reasonably (and legally) possible about the person or people who would be working my campground.  In campgrounds that are host to families with children, I'd probably consider doing background checks.  While requesting a photo does bring into play questions about discrimination and the like, it also will give the owners a little bit better sense of who their dealing with.  A plain photo of a couple standing in front of their RV may not say a lot, but it does let you know a few things. 
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Flyboy

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2012, 11:56:28 AM »
If an employer is smart, and it sounds like this one may not be, they will stay away from questions regarding your ethnicity, marital status, health status, age, and other information that could land them in court due to a discrimination charge during the hiring process. "Other information" would be a photo of you - as opposed to your RV.

I would not consider even submitting an app if a potential employer crossed that line.  But, as a compromise, I don't have an issue with providing a file photo after I've been hired and have gotten the first paycheck.




whiteva

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2012, 12:18:25 PM »
What if the folks asked for your facebook page?

I always search facebook before renting my condos... Amassing or amusing what you can find out about people. 
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Wendy

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 01:09:56 PM »
I don't think asking for a picture of you and/or your RV is discrimination. It takes the place of in-person interviewing where you get to see what the potential employee/volunteer looks like. If they refuse to hire you because of race or sex or age, and you can prove it, then you've got a case.
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carson

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2012, 02:37:38 PM »
Wendy, I like your answer. I hesitate to write this post as it might stereo-type me too in this  PC ( politically correct) World ).

  I have never hired a person in my life sight unseen. A picture is worth a thousand words. A resumè is in fact advertising.  In turn I would never buy a potential asset: employee --RV--House-- property-- a partner--or a living animal without checking it out as best as possible. As you said, there is little chance of a lawsuit for rejecting any of the above. It's a free country--ain't it.

  The only ad (resumè) I trust is is with a personal inspection. i.e the personal interview.

  Imagine the disappointment one may face after hiring a person (by mail) of unknown character or appearance.

  Ok, I'll go sit in my corner now..  (Life is tough when trying to make a living).

 
Carson, 
 West Central Florida
Ex RV'er. (1995 Winnebago Adventurer)
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Irover

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2012, 02:42:03 PM »
 ;) If I send the picture and they see how ugly  :o I am and they hire me I know I have the job when I arrive. Irover
Don't ever give up!! keep pushing toward the goal!!!
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ironrat

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2012, 04:23:42 PM »
I think you got a bad attitude to begin with to tell the truth. Your first thought is oh I being discriminated against cause you didn't get the job, but you have no idea why you didn't get the job., maybe you were not even close to being qualified on paper for the job. Being able to sue is completely out of hand in this country! It does make a difference how one looks for a given job! You need to be approachable to all people in this job including kids, look like you care before anyone can know if you know anything. If your camp Host drives a big piece of junk for an RV do you think you want him/her to touch your RV to see why you have no power?  Yea there are bad/wrong people out there also but from what you list here you are not showing that they did anything wrong except for crazy people that believe looks and such make no difference in life! Hey why didn't you marry that great guy/girl, they were ugly but they were great people, they should sue you cause they were hurt. I know I sound real harsh but this all does matter how people look and take care of things for them selves, if they are expected to take care of things for others, Clean and Neat matters! And no ones can tell that with out at lease seeing you and your RV! 
Manuel & Denise
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Betty Brewer

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2012, 05:35:48 PM »
For the first time ever, I ran into a workamping situation where  they would not consider my application until I attached both a picture of me and my rig.  They also claimed thew weren't making a decision for 10 more days.

It started out with me sending an enthusiastic letter of inquiry, to make sure the position was still available. I hate just sending off my detailed personal information to unknown sources.  I listed the reasons why I thought I would be a prefect fit for the situation advertised.  A lady wrote back acting very interested, also asking for my resume, references and the required pics.

 A few days later, I had the pictures made and sent off my application with 8 days remaining.  My experience  was perfect for the workamping job advertised, so I was expecting to hear back from them at the end of the 8-10 days.

Instead, they immediately shot back a canned reply that the position had been filled.  Apparently they didn't wait the 10 days.


While I am a firm believer in a face to face interview for a final decision, I think the  information  provided by MissM shows that the employeer did indeed change the "rules" or story they told her.  For that reason  alone I am glad she did not go work for them.  Not trying to stir the pot... Just sayin. 

Betty Brewer

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Kim (skyking4ar2) Bertram

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2012, 06:16:36 PM »
I have waited to get into this fray, but maybe it is drifting so….let’s split some hair.

The title of the post “picture requirement – fair or unfair” is not punctuated as a question. Let’s agree it is, and the answer should be binary, yes or no, but realistically can be answered as “fair – maybe not, legal – on shaky legs, reasonable – depends on whose ox is being gored and where your ego and feelings are.”

I don’t think it is unreasonable for an employer of a park with a huge investment to start at the top of his “what does a customer see and want?” tree and work down. Personally, having done background checks in the police department and sorted through some very creative resumes (people, really, lie about your credentials to the police department you want to hire you???), the written weighs more with me, added to the verbal interview and body language, and the picture is optional. But that all assumes I get a face to face before hiring. But I do always reserve the right to cull in the interview process, anywhere I feel like it.

But there’s a second question in the OP which bears looking at, and that is the employer saying they would not make a decision for ten days and then changing their mind. Especially after our potential employee, against her convictions, made the effort to provide the requested information. While that’s probably bad form, again we have an ox issue. The employer deserves to hire the person he wants and not let them get away (been there, done that) so the potential employee is left with short sheets and bad feelings, again possibly reasonable under the circumstances. But yes, I would feel bad, too, if someone said one thing and did another.

Our applicant states her “experience is perfect” but isn’t that really up to the employer to decide? Is it really our place as suitors to demand a match?

Miss Mermaid, this reply is very tongue in cheek, and I would not want to pour salt in your wound, but it really is a world where great people are often overlooked and very substandard people are picked and God forbid, promoted. The fit was not there in this case, ultimately either way, and perhaps you dodged a bullet from someone who might not have treated you as well as they should.

I hope this experience leaves you free to find a much better opportunity, but as always you still have choices. My wife, the therapist, says “happiness is a choice”. Indeed.

Kim

p.s. the one and only workamping gig I ever looked at had similar requirements, and I laughed, and sent my best picture, taken the day I got married.  8)
Kim & Christi Bertram
SKP 106183
FMCA 420913
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DearMissMermaid

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2012, 01:57:48 PM »
Well I am truly surprised at how many people put a huge emphasis on a picture before interviewing or hiring for a part time temporary workamping gig.

I am certainly not looking for a lawsuit, good grief. 

Matter of fact, at one workamping gig,  I worked with a couple that would look great in a picture, new 5th wheel, nice looking couple,  but...  if anyone asked me to give a reference on them, I would say they were cantankerous, disagreeable, undependable and hard as heck to work around (all true!) but hey, they make a great picture, hire them for their looks.  ;D

Apparently, I wasn't the only one who thought they were difficult, five people quit because of them and I can't say I blame them.

On the other hand, this whole business of image projection and stuff, when I think back to checking in at various parks and all the numerous park hosts I've met and seen around...  it didn't matter to me what the person checking me in or camp hosting looked like, as long as they were able to handle my check-in (and stay) without giving me any grief. 

Whether they were old or young, fat or skinny, ugly or beautiful, of one race or another,   I really didn't care, I just wanted someone polite to take my money.

One day a check-in person did give me a heap of grief and even yelled at me while I was checking in. I was new to RV-ing and I was so stunned and flabbergasted, I was barely able to mumble  "I've changed my mind".   

I was dead tired, but I found another campground by telephone 30 miles out in the boonies.  The rates were about half of what the other place was charging, so frankly, I wasn't expecting much.  But I arrived at a beautiful well maintained park. They acted as if they knew I had been through a rough time, it was so surreal, they went out of their way to make me feel welcomed, certainly far more than I expected. My one nighter turned into a week's stay.  They had set the tone for the entire campground, it seemed everyone was friendly,  relaxed, polite and happy, both campers and staff.

I may not always even remember how people look, but I surely remember how they made me feel.

http://DearMissMermaid.Com

Living, working. playing  in a Class C, 1994 Tioga Montara, 28'

Pack half the stuff and twice the cash.
http://dearmissmermaid.blogspot.com/

Wendy

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2012, 03:40:50 PM »
Quote
Whether they were old or young, fat or skinny, ugly or beautiful, of one race or another,   I really didn't care, I just wanted someone polite to take my money.

If I asked for a picture while hiring someone, whether volunteer or paid, full-time or part-time, my reason for wanting the picture wouldn't be to look for those things. It would be more a matter of clean and neat, and "normal" looking for the place I was hiring for. A phone interview could check for politeness, which is certainly a requirement. Fortunately, I don't have to hire anyone :)
 
Wendy
Wendy, Mike, and Gordon
~We can't be lost because we don't care where we're going~
Here's where we are http://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=2276
2015 Allegro Ooen Road
1973 Sunshine Yellow VW Bug

Just Lou

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Re: Picture Requirement Fair or Unfair
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2012, 04:18:59 PM »
Wendy, I have a photo to submit that is the epitome of cleanliness, neatness and normalcy, but you probably wouldn't hire me anyway, since it's a photo of my neighbor lady.  Should I still feel victimized?

This has been a most entertaining topic. 
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

 

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