Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Here is the article cited above:
http://rvingwithmarkpolk.com/2012/11/08/trailer-towing-st-tires-vs-lt-tires/
http://rvingwithmarkpolk.com/2012/11/08/trailer-towing-st-tires-vs-lt-tires/
ST vs LT tires
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warsw
Well-known member
Good stuff. Thanks Gary.Gary RV Roamer said:
warsw
Well-known member
Very interesting. Thanks again.Gary RV Roamer said:
Foto-n-T
Well-known member
Although I don't always agree with Mark Polk I think he's spot on with this one.
I don't know what his experience with using ST or LT tires on a heavy trailer has been or how many years and miles he has towed a trailer but not much I would agree with on his ST vs LT blog that I read. He basically parroted ST manufacturers advertising and added his opinion.
I could make a list of disagreements but this one is where he lost any credibility IMO for serious ST vs LT tire debates.
Mark says;
"In a nutshell most trailer tire blowouts are not a result of ?bad or inferior? tires, they are a result of one or more of the following conditions."
This is the same thing some tire dealers/makers tell us when were prorating one of their blown/ruined tires. Same thing Ford and Firestone told my SIL ( and hundreds of others) when she lost the treads on her Firestone tires on her Explorer. Therer are defective tires out here.
IMO the ST has a design issue as we had the same issues with them when they were all made in the USA. The only thing different is their made across the pond now and lots of new folks the last 5-10 years to the towing world that look at them as the norm.
Edit: Removed excessive white space.
I could make a list of disagreements but this one is where he lost any credibility IMO for serious ST vs LT tire debates.
Mark says;
"In a nutshell most trailer tire blowouts are not a result of ?bad or inferior? tires, they are a result of one or more of the following conditions."
This is the same thing some tire dealers/makers tell us when were prorating one of their blown/ruined tires. Same thing Ford and Firestone told my SIL ( and hundreds of others) when she lost the treads on her Firestone tires on her Explorer. Therer are defective tires out here.
IMO the ST has a design issue as we had the same issues with them when they were all made in the USA. The only thing different is their made across the pond now and lots of new folks the last 5-10 years to the towing world that look at them as the norm.
Edit: Removed excessive white space.
Foto-n-T
Well-known member
@longhaul,
When my wife and I first started RVing a little over ten years ago I was extremely concerned with NOT making expensive mistakes so I asked a BUNCH of questions to just about anybody who'd stand still long enough to hear them. A few of the questions I asked dozens of times before I became satisfied with the results:
Q. Do you know how much air pressure is in your tires right now?
A. most of the time: Anywhere from 30psi to 60psi (nobody I talked to ran 80psi in E rated tires).
Q. How fast do you tow?
A. Typically most responded that they drove 70-80mph.
Q. Ever have any problems?
A. I blow a tire once in a while. (DUH!!)
My research was of course extremely non-scientific. Keep in mind that folks who are reading this forum are the ones who actually take the time to learn about what they're doing and I'd venture to guess that the ones Mark Polk has the most experience with aren't really too well informed about what they're doing in an RV. If that weren't the case then he'd have a hard time staying in business.
Now there was a time that I felt that the ST designation was simply a marketing ploy but I've changed my mind in that regard over the years. I have run LT tires on 5th wheels and have done so with very good success but since our latest rig has 15" wheels I don't have a lot of choice. Granted the tire industry has had some "issues" over the years but all in all I think that modern ST tires are truly better suited to trailer service than the LT's. Keep in mind that for the most part, once the tires get put on they get ignored more often than not. Things like balance and rotation intervals are virtually non-existant even if pressure checks are done regularly.
When my wife and I first started RVing a little over ten years ago I was extremely concerned with NOT making expensive mistakes so I asked a BUNCH of questions to just about anybody who'd stand still long enough to hear them. A few of the questions I asked dozens of times before I became satisfied with the results:
Q. Do you know how much air pressure is in your tires right now?
A. most of the time: Anywhere from 30psi to 60psi (nobody I talked to ran 80psi in E rated tires).
Q. How fast do you tow?
A. Typically most responded that they drove 70-80mph.
Q. Ever have any problems?
A. I blow a tire once in a while. (DUH!!)
My research was of course extremely non-scientific. Keep in mind that folks who are reading this forum are the ones who actually take the time to learn about what they're doing and I'd venture to guess that the ones Mark Polk has the most experience with aren't really too well informed about what they're doing in an RV. If that weren't the case then he'd have a hard time staying in business.
Now there was a time that I felt that the ST designation was simply a marketing ploy but I've changed my mind in that regard over the years. I have run LT tires on 5th wheels and have done so with very good success but since our latest rig has 15" wheels I don't have a lot of choice. Granted the tire industry has had some "issues" over the years but all in all I think that modern ST tires are truly better suited to trailer service than the LT's. Keep in mind that for the most part, once the tires get put on they get ignored more often than not. Things like balance and rotation intervals are virtually non-existant even if pressure checks are done regularly.
Mopar1973Man
Well-known member
I could turn this thread up-side-down with what I know about ST Tires but I remain quiet.
I check both the truck and trailer before any trip.
No faster than 55 MPH.
Never. I never experienced a tire blow out in any vehicle yet. Yes. I've had my fair share of tire flats but violent highway blowout... No. Never.
I check both the truck and trailer before any trip.
No faster than 55 MPH.
Never. I never experienced a tire blow out in any vehicle yet. Yes. I've had my fair share of tire flats but violent highway blowout... No. Never.
Hi Joe,
I've based my opinion on ST tires from having several sizes of equipment trailers on the road for a number of years starting in the '70s to make a living. These trailers ranged from 7k cargo trailers with tandam 3500 lbs axles carrying tools up to a 20k tandam dually tire trailer with two 10k axles. I also ran three different tri axle trailers all with 15" and 16" tires and wheels and LT tires.
My issues with ST tires came close to ruining my construction business till a Goodyear truck tire dealer advised me to dump my ST tires and go with all 15" and 16" LT tires. I had five trailers on the road 24/7 running materials and equipment to different off road job sites in a eight state area. That move alone cut downtime on the side of the road, changing ruined ST tires, for my drivers and myself by 90 percent. LOL we even carried two spares on each trailer. Now thats bad.
My current 5er came with new ST225/75-15 D Marathons. As you might guess I don't use ST tires
so I dumped the new Marathons for 16" wheels and LT215/85-16 E tires. Ran them for over seven years and 55k miles and now have 22k miles on the second set. This is my 3rd 5th wheel trailer since '84 and I always dump the ST tires and go with a LT. I simply don't have tire issues at any speeds.
I've based my opinion on ST tires from having several sizes of equipment trailers on the road for a number of years starting in the '70s to make a living. These trailers ranged from 7k cargo trailers with tandam 3500 lbs axles carrying tools up to a 20k tandam dually tire trailer with two 10k axles. I also ran three different tri axle trailers all with 15" and 16" tires and wheels and LT tires.
My issues with ST tires came close to ruining my construction business till a Goodyear truck tire dealer advised me to dump my ST tires and go with all 15" and 16" LT tires. I had five trailers on the road 24/7 running materials and equipment to different off road job sites in a eight state area. That move alone cut downtime on the side of the road, changing ruined ST tires, for my drivers and myself by 90 percent. LOL we even carried two spares on each trailer. Now thats bad.
My current 5er came with new ST225/75-15 D Marathons. As you might guess I don't use ST tires
so I dumped the new Marathons for 16" wheels and LT215/85-16 E tires. Ran them for over seven years and 55k miles and now have 22k miles on the second set. This is my 3rd 5th wheel trailer since '84 and I always dump the ST tires and go with a LT. I simply don't have tire issues at any speeds.
FastEagle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2010
- Posts
- 647
longhaul said:My current 5er came with new ST225/75-15 D Marathons. As you might guess I don't use ST tires
Your situation is much different when compared to the choices those with other axle configurations might run into.
The mechanics of your trailer?s configuration are all plus factors for you and your tire upgrade. The LT tire gives you a nice increase in load capacity over the OE tires. You have the added advantage of a faster highway speed rating and .4? of tread depth to provide more mileage over the ST tire.
I do not print this to disagree with anything you have done. On the contrary, I print it to reinforce the option you have taken and how successful it can be when properly applied.
FastEagle
Foto-n-T
Well-known member
Exactly, excellent point: "Properly Applied"
Keep I'm mind, those of us on this forum (including you reading this) are here to learn as well as share our experience. Believe me, we're the minority in the RVing world, there's a whole bunch of folks out there that just "git in and go."
Like I stated above, I've run LT tires before and had mo issues in my application. But but if the average "Joe" were to install them on a unit that was running right up against the weight rating of an ST he might find himself replacing torn up skirting or worse.
I understand the mindset of the vacationer in a hurry to get there but if running ST or LT tires for that matter we really need to arm ourselves with all available information and refrain from becoming "test pilots" if you will.
The difference between ignorance & stupidity is that ignorance can be cured. I've been trying to cure mine for over five decades now and in reality sometimes I don't think I'm much closer than when I started.
Keep I'm mind, those of us on this forum (including you reading this) are here to learn as well as share our experience. Believe me, we're the minority in the RVing world, there's a whole bunch of folks out there that just "git in and go."
Like I stated above, I've run LT tires before and had mo issues in my application. But but if the average "Joe" were to install them on a unit that was running right up against the weight rating of an ST he might find himself replacing torn up skirting or worse.
I understand the mindset of the vacationer in a hurry to get there but if running ST or LT tires for that matter we really need to arm ourselves with all available information and refrain from becoming "test pilots" if you will.
The difference between ignorance & stupidity is that ignorance can be cured. I've been trying to cure mine for over five decades now and in reality sometimes I don't think I'm much closer than when I started.
Tires made oversees are not necessarily all bad. Take Hankook tires as an example. They are made in Korea and have a very good reputation for quality and durability. Maxxis is another tire made off shore, and is probably the only ST tire made with a decent reputation. But for the long haul with a relatively heavy trailer than came OE or is being upgraded to 16 inch wheels, a decent brand LT tire is far and away a better solution. Michelin/BFGoodrich, Firestone among others still make their truck tires in the good old USA.
Oderus420
New member
I'm researching this topic as well is this what I found;
ST tires aren't made for traction or steering. They have stronger sidewalls than LT but less grip and rolling resistance. They're common at 15" and 16" while LT tires are much less common at 15" than for 16".
LT tires have a lower max weight capacity than ST.
Most tires are made in China so it's not fair to say all Chinese tires are 'China bombs'.
Majority of issues related to tires are due to user error. Over or under inflated tires, driving too fast or with too much load.
Also, anecdotal evidence from 10+ years ago may no longer be valid as this world changes quickly. Lots of US branded tires are now made in China as well, including non-US brands with high quality ratings like Hankook and Toyo.
ST tires aren't made for traction or steering. They have stronger sidewalls than LT but less grip and rolling resistance. They're common at 15" and 16" while LT tires are much less common at 15" than for 16".
LT tires have a lower max weight capacity than ST.
Most tires are made in China so it's not fair to say all Chinese tires are 'China bombs'.
Majority of issues related to tires are due to user error. Over or under inflated tires, driving too fast or with too much load.
Also, anecdotal evidence from 10+ years ago may no longer be valid as this world changes quickly. Lots of US branded tires are now made in China as well, including non-US brands with high quality ratings like Hankook and Toyo.
Gary RV_Wizard said:
They also make a range of commercial truck tires under the UE168N Bravo label.
I have been using these for a long time and never had any issue. Also, the smaller 14 inch sizes have a higher load rating than a comparable ST. With my first toy hauler I had a gross limit of 7000 lbs, it was fitted with dual 3500lb axles and 14 in ST tires with 1760lb each ( 7040 lb total ). so basically the tires were running at near max load with no reserve. that was a very bad position to be in. I upgraded the tires to UE168N bravos and netted a 29 percent safety margin. Every one's situation is different and this worked for me.. I'm sure we will beat this dead horse many more times to no avail.. LOL
Personally, I think the main reason for tire failure is either under inflation or overloading, I've seen both many times on my travels.
G614 RST is a LT tire but Goodyear says there intended to be used on Regional Service Trailers (RST).BruceinFL said:
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ST tire information we see posted here comes from ST tire makers and some dealers. Dealers just push the tire makers bilge.
this from rv.net website by seniorGNC: actual ST vs LT tire testing per FMVSS eliminate much of the myth and half truths passed out by ST tire makers.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23225970.cfm
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Maxxis ST8008 speed rating ?? This email from Maxxis found in the FR forums;
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 11,482
Here is a copy of the email I received yesterday from Maxxis, per my dealer request. (including original spelling)
Bobby,
The spped rating on for the Maxxis M8008 ST Radial is "Q", which is 99 MPH. However, according to the Tire and Rim Association the inflation pressures and load specifications in general for all ST Radial trailer tires, regardless of the manufacturer, are designed and rated at 65 MPH. If the speed is higher than 65 MPH, the pressure and load need to be adjusted according to the following guidelines:
From 66 to 75 MPH ? the tire inflation pressure needs to increase 10 PSI (not to exceed the maximum PSI the tire is rated for) but requires no load adjustment.
From 76 to 85 MPH ? the tire inflation pressure needs to increase 10 PSI (not to exceed the maximum PSI the tire is rated for) and load should be reduced by 10%.
We hope this information is helpful. Thanks for your email and interest in Maxxis Tires.
Best Regards,
The Maxxis Support Team.....
As you can tell from the remarks; you can research the LT tire market and find a tread pattern and performance rating you like, some TT manufacturers have done that for some of their selected models. Or, you can use what the tire industry and TT makers recommend and buy ST tires that are designed for trailer service at 65 mph. Some of the newer premium tire are rated for high speeds and their use was being touted at the last RV show we attended.
It is your choice and your money; the rim bending road hazard does not care how much you spent.
Take care
It is your choice and your money; the rim bending road hazard does not care how much you spent.
Take care
I just replaced my tires on my trailer. It came with Westlake ST 23580ER16 LR E steel belted speed rating 75MPH. These tires have had some problems with blowouts so with less than 1000 miles on my trailer and off they came, The weight of the tire was 42#. Sidewalls were very weak. I was going to have the tires broke down to have metal valve stems installed and balanced so my wife said if I was thinking of changing the tires out anyway just do it now. So I did a lot of research and there has been a lot of people switching over to Sailun 23580R16 LR G ST Steel belted. These tires weigh 55# and have a stiff sidewall Speed rating 75MPH. The Sailubs have been around longer than the Goodyear Endurance tire and a good rep.
So this is the tire I'm going to try out. I don't run 75MPH usually around 60 and run TPMS to keep an eye on temps and pressure. The TPMS was the main reason for metal valve stems. I took them off the the trailer and hauled them down and had them mounted balanced with metal valves (I trust my torque more than a kid wth an air impact wrench). The tire and wheel with Westlakes felt lighter than the Sailun with just the tire.
So this is the tire I'm going to try out. I don't run 75MPH usually around 60 and run TPMS to keep an eye on temps and pressure. The TPMS was the main reason for metal valve stems. I took them off the the trailer and hauled them down and had them mounted balanced with metal valves (I trust my torque more than a kid wth an air impact wrench). The tire and wheel with Westlakes felt lighter than the Sailun with just the tire.
Good choice on the S637 Sailun load G all steel ply carcass commercial grade tires. No much in common with ST E/D/C poly carcass tires.
These tire first hit the streets in the '10 era as all regional purpose tire with a LT designation. However high tariff rates on P and L T tires were to stiff so Sailun rebranded to a ST tire to get around the tariff thing. I have six of the LT 235/85-16 G637 on a 36' triaxle GN stock trailer since '11 and no issues at any speed at max weights all day runs. Their a winner.
These tire first hit the streets in the '10 era as all regional purpose tire with a LT designation. However high tariff rates on P and L T tires were to stiff so Sailun rebranded to a ST tire to get around the tariff thing. I have six of the LT 235/85-16 G637 on a 36' triaxle GN stock trailer since '11 and no issues at any speed at max weights all day runs. Their a winner.
