Diesel or gas?

Gary RV Roamer said:

Any engine replacement is going to be pricey, so that's not a terribly relevant piece of data. Try comparing the price of a fuel pump or a radiator and you will see that these more common repairs cost 2x-4x as much with a typical diesel.  Ditto for annual maintenance - the drive train in a diesel Class A is probably going to run you several hundred dollars annually (unless you do it all yourself),

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Thanks Gary.  You just put me on the fence again.  :-\   

Seriously, this is exactly the kind of information I'm looking for.  It also makes me think I should consider a newer diesel.  One that is warrantable.  Then again, as one of my teachers suggested eons ago, maybe I should take up underwater basket weaving. 

99WinAdventurer37G said:

I got the gas rig because I didn't plan on driving it that much, I'm parked more than moving.  And I think of a diesel as dirty and greasy.  When I go to a gas station, I don't use a glove, and usually I'm not walking on oily spills. 
With the diesel, I always wear gloves, and many times still track that diesel smell on my shoes back inside.  But if I were to get a diesel, it would be 2003 or earlier, unless I found a 2004 with a pre-egr motor, (they are out there).  A diesel does have better drivability in a larger vehicle, because of its better torque curve.

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I buy 95% of my diesel at the local gas station, parked next to the cars filling up with gasoline. (43' MH & 20' toad fits in most service stations if you buy off peak hours and can use the mirrors) If the station is dirty and oily then I'd be looking for a different station whether I was driving my car or my MH. I have two pair of nice orange gloves, one for each side depending on which is most convenient to fuel from, the gloves are the same as the fuel truck drivers wear. Quick and easy to don and doff whenever touching the nozzle. I'd do the same for fueling the car if it was convenient. I smell gasoline on my hands after every car fuel up, even though I didn't spill any. I think the gas handles get as much spillage on them as a diesel handle does.

I would agree that a gas rig is more economical for low mileage use. Once retirement sets in, and long distance driving is a possibility, then the quiet and comfort of the diesel is worth any extra cost. Looking out at the other snowbirds in the RV park this morning tells me I'm not alone in my thoughts.

Ken

Sorry to put you back on the fence, but hate to see someone reach a major conclusion based on erroneous data.

Diesel pushers are terrific, but the extras come with a hefty price tag.  Many of us have wine tastes on a beer budget, but we get along just fine.

Thanks to all for the input. Going to keep an open mind, look at a lot of units and go from there.

Gary RV Roamer said:

Sorry to put you back on the fence, but hate to see someone reach a major conclusion based on erroneous data.

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Gary, your comments are always appreciated. 

Just purchased my 2nd gaser motor home!
Just my 2 cents.
Scott 

OllieM said:

Looking at A-Class in the 34' - 38' range. Years 1997 - 2006 + or -. There are some nice diesels on the older end of the model years priced around the price point of newer gas models. Mileage is typically less than 70,000 on diesels versus 30,000 on the the gassers. My question is, based on the experiences of forum members, which would offer greater dependability and cost less in the long run. I am making the assumption that units have been maintained and stored equally. Thanks to all for guidance and suggestions.
Ollie

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the 2006+ V10 has real decent power in this size range.Diesel pusher is too broad of a term. If u buy a older 1997-98-99
Diesel make sure its at least 8.3 325HP or larger.Dont buy any 5.9ISB 250-275 units as they are DOGS loaded going thu passes etc

This topic comes up often, but I don't see a lot of comments about the relative safety of available chassis these rigs are built on.  I had a 34' 95 Vectra on a Ford F-53 chassis with the 460 engine and a 4 spd trans.  I got rid of it at 45k miles because of it's inadequacies, and it had already had the engine replaced before I got it!  That MH had the same size tires on it (16") that my Dodge pickup had on it...!!  My current one is a 96 Vectra widebody on a Freightliner chassis with the 5.9 Cummins and a 6 spd Allison.  The old gasser was a decent rig as far as the Winnebago built parts were concerned, but the Ford part of it just wasn't up to the task.  I love the current rig and don't even try to compare them, as it's not fair to either one.  Just ask yourself this, would you feel safer on a substantial Freightliner chassis with 22.5 inch tires, decent air suspension and air brakes, or with a Ford F-550 frame?  There's a reason you don't see a lot of 18 wheelers going down the highway on a Ford or Chevy frame.  I do all of my own maintenance, and the cost over a gasser is really not as bad as some folks make it sound.  Changing  the oil on my Cummins is easier than my car is, just takes a couple of gallons extra oil. 

As far as power goes, you must consider weights for any meaningful comparison.  I have no experience with any of the newer gassers, or diesels for that matter.  My old 12 valve Cummins has NO computers to contend with, and gets nearly 10 mpg towing a Toyota Tacoma extended cab, with a GCVW of around 25K.  I could always use more power, but the fact is it does pretty well on any hill with less than a 5% grade.  Beyond that, I believe most of the MH's out there will struggle to some extent except for the really big engines.  We took a trip of 3500 miles this summer, and there were many days when I had no hills that made me think about needing more power.  So, make sure it's worth the money to design for big hills that constitute a miniscule percentage of your travels.  When we went up Wolfcreek Pass, I just kept it in 3rd gear and spent a little extra time climbing that substantial hill.  On the way down, it was nice to have the exhaust brake to safely keep the speed down without hardly touching the brakes. 

Take your time, look at a lot of rigs, and have a good time choosing the one that fits your needs the best!

The newer gas chassis, say starting around 2002, are substantially stronger and more capable then earlier years. The Workhorse W2x series of chassis uses the same 50,000 psi steel used by Freightliner, and Ford matched it a year or two later. Weight rating improved to 22k and later 24k lbs, and tire sizes were increased to 22.5", "just like the big guys".

Here's a resource that may help deciding between diesel and gas; http://www.backroadtravelers.com/chassisfeatures.html

99WinAdventurer37G said:

Here's a resource that may help deciding between diesel and gas; http://www.backroadtravelers.com/chassisfeatures.html

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yah i really love this quote from your web site
Diesel units cost more to buy, yield better fuel mileage (somewhere between 10 and 14 mpg

too funny

Not my website, just one I found.

Just a quick comment about towing with a gasser ....

Most of the bigger gas engines (GM 454, GM 8.1, Ford v10, Ford 460 etc) have the power (HP and torque) to pull 10k pounds.  But its not all about power.

You have to consider things like rear overhang, frame strength, transmission, transmission cooling, engine cooling, tire size/type/pressure, brake size, electronic brake controllers ... and something that very few people ever consider, rear axle gear ratio. 

Just about any gasser that is properly equipped in all the things I just mentioned will have no trouble pulling loads larger than 5k pounds.

Oh, and just because you buy a diesel doesn't mean you can ignore all the other things I mentioned.  When it comes to towing, they all mater regardless of fuel type.

To the original poster, my advice would be to get the newest and most well maintained gas motorhome that you can find within your budget and with the layout you like best .... while keeping in mind all the towing things I mentioned.  Its pretty rare to find a motorhome already equipped properly for heavy towing .... but with some time and money, just about all of them can be.

OllieM said:

Gary, thanks. I'll certainly use the search for more information. I'm in sales and plan on using the coach once a month for a 800 mile trip. Throw in half a dozen weekenders and vacation time and I think we will see 12,000 miles annually.

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  OllieM,

    Lot's of great info in these post concerning your query of gas or diesel-When we start looking to upgrade from gas to diesel, I will be looking for one that has been driven as regularly as you say that your gonna drive yours. A gas or diesel that has set up and not been driven much is a money pit as there are so many things that dry out and go to leaking and other things draw moisture and corrode and are just waiting to go out and cost that large sum of money that is spoken of.

I've driven many hundreds of thousands of miles in the big trucks and those diesel engines take the miles and keep on going without many problems. Driving as regular as you stated  will keep the seals and gaskets moist and keep moisture burnt out, batteries and tires will tend to stay good.

  If a diesel truck is kept out of the dust and up on the hiway, they will easily go 15k on an engine service and run way more miles than I figure a coach could hold together for. I have no clue as to the service requirement on the auto transmissions, but I would have to think that a well maintained diesel pusher that hadn't been punished, would better serve me than a gas setup. A constant 20-30 mph head wind plus the 3500# tow load would seem to be a heck of strain on a gas burner, the diesel is better suited with it's torque, to stroll on through without undue wear on the engine. Just some points to ponder.   

      This is the greatest site, chock full of useable info. I'm sure you will find just the right machine for your needs, may you be blessed, FB       
Added-
  On the PPL Motor Home site there is a '03 Admiral SE 36'er  19k mi w/gas engine for  $36k-even has washer/dryer too. 

Thanks Farmer Brown! There is a wealth of great information that has been offered up here. I am leaning toward the diesel but every so often I see a sweet gas burner that makes me take another look .

OllieM said:

Looking at A-Class in the 34' - 38' range. Years 1997 - 2006 + or -. There are some nice diesels on the older end of the model years priced around the price point of newer gas models. Mileage is typically less than 70,000 on diesels versus 30,000 on the the gassers. My question is, based on the experiences of forum members, which would offer greater dependability and cost less in the long run. I am making the assumption that units have been maintained and stored equally. Thanks to all for guidance and suggestions.
Ollie

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your better off to spend 40K on a low  mileage 2006 36Ft 3 slide gasser than 40K on a 1996 275HP diesel no slide unit.

Just my two cents...
I just traded up to a 34' Itasca gas from a 31' C Class.  The engine in the A is incredibly quiet and drives so well sometimes I think I'm driving my car and have to shake myself.  I never wanted a diesel because of maintenance, gas cost, and to me they seem so loud although I've never driven or ridden in one.

Look and ask questions; if you are in sales you know that's a natural. If I were you, I'd buy from a dealer and not an individual. You want someone who has a dog in the hunt, and if they are a good dealership, they will.

ticat900 said:

your better off to spend 40K on a low  mileage 2006 36Ft 3 slide gasser than 40K on a 1996 275HP diesel no slide unit.

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$40K should get you into a late 90s, like 98 or 99, and possibly into an early 2,000 depending on condition and your willingness to do some work as needed.  2000 +/- Dutch Stars are in that range and some are in great shape.

Check here for an idea of things available from private owners.  http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RVsForSale/

PPL of Houston, currently has nine diesels under $40,000.  They range from a 2003 National Tradewinds with 2 slides and a 330 HP Cat for $39,995 to a 1999 Dutchstar with 2 slides and a 300 Cummins for $29,995.  There are many others on RVT and RVTrader.com as well as Craigslist.   

Certainly appears to be a buyer's market. I want to be as informed as possible in making such a large financial decision. Again, great comments from all. Thanks!