EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?  (Read 4914 times)

1993VPV

  • ---
  • Posts: 6
About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« on: December 08, 2012, 08:34:19 AM »
Looks like I'm in the final stage of buying a 1993 Vogue Prima Vista. Lovely 6v92 Detroit Diesel with a whopping 45,000 miles on it. Every mile logged with gallons of fuel used, average mpg. etc. It's been stored inside for it's entire life; there's not a SCRATCH on it. Interior, well, flawless. The original plastic protective sheet is still on the carpet in the cockpit. Wood floor has been covered with oriental rugs and appears, again, perfect. Cedar lined closets. Full wall mounted shower with triangular glass enclosure. Corian bathroom counters under tasteful crystal fixtures. All faucets are solid brass, polished. Master bedroom is perfect except the hidden safe is locked and combination unknown. Powertech 7.8kw generator has 775 hrs. Again each period of use is noted in log book. Log book also denotes every vehicle and generator service, all very near factory recommendations as taken from the original manufacturer's owners manual, which I've read all +300 pages of. The previous owner, may God have peace on his sole, also retained every owners manual for every piece of equipment in the RV, all with service notes.

We are at $25,000.00
Final/professional vehicle survey to be performed Monday by the local Detroit Diesel rep (they also rep Allison Transmissions, which the RV has a HT-747 auto).

The "issues" are:
Tires, thought they appear in great condition, are more than 10 years old.
Fridge is dead.
Front air is dead.
3 gauges nonfunctional
Back up cam and/or screen dead

What do y'all think?
I want it.
I can afford it.
It's an extremely well taken care of unit.
What say you?

Can I get them down to $20,000.00
Should I even try?

Kim (skyking4ar2) Bertram

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 4075
  • I don't know what I don't know so I look here...
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 09:15:40 AM »
I think those are very cool units!  8)

I also think you might have a leg up with the obvious care that the previous owner took. A good hard inspection for rust and corrosion, old rubber, etc. might be in order, as it is a 20 year old machine.

But you have a pretty good chunk to drop for tires, swapping out the fridge, and the new A/C. If you can swing the total cost of the initial purchase and the labor and materials to bring the other items up to speed, and you like what you will have when you are done, the "price" is not really a factor.

You are already in love with it, you just need to decide if you can live with it!  ;D
Kim & Christi Bertram
SKP 106183
FMCA 420913
----------------------------------
2012 Thor Damon Tuscany 42RQ
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel
Wanderlust RV Park, Eureka Springs, AR

muskoka guy

  • ---
  • Posts: 761
  • 2000 Coachmen Santara 370 isb cummins diesel
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 09:55:41 AM »
as everyone here has stated many times on this forum, they recommend changing the tires after 7 yrs even if they look good tread wise. the rubber gets brittle i guess from sitting and weather checking. this can cost quite a bit to replace all the tires. i would try to barter them down as low as possible pointing out  the flaws and the relative costs. if that price is not certified it could also need brakes, steering components ect. best to leave yourself as much wiggle room as possible for the unexpected. what seems like no big deal now can start to add up if too many of them arise. buy with your head not your heart .  there will always be another deal come up. getting in a hurry costs money. good luck

billwild

  • ---
  • Posts: 681
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 10:00:01 AM »
Batteries will be a fair expense and will probably have to be replaced, check for stains on the ceiling for any leaks. As mentioned tires are a big expense. You really should drive the unit before buying. An inspection by a professional before buying would be a good idea, probably run $150 - $200.

Bill

garyb1st

  • ---
  • Posts: 2127
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 10:29:07 AM »
We've recently looked at a 1990 Prima Vista that is listed in So Cal for $35,000.  Also a Detroit Diesel.  Owned and maintained by current owner for the past 17 years but no logs maintained.  We passed for several reasons.  First, I was advised, rightly or wrongly, that a Detroit Diesel will only get about 6miles per gallon and that they all leak oil.  Second, while the unit was in decent shape, it hadn't been stored which was apparent by the condition of the paint.  So a rather costly paint job would have been required.  If I'm going to drive an aged luxury RV I at least want it to look like a prize.  The other reason was a lack of maintenance records.  The owner claims he did the oil changes himself.  When I asked about the rest of the stuff, he didn't provide any comforting info.   

Based on what I've seen the asking price seems fair for the 1993.  Check them out and while you won't find many, some are advertised for $70,000 or more.  Of course asking price is pretty meaningless.  From my perspective, I wouldn't buy a vintage luxury coach without setting aside at least $25,000 for major repairs. 
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

1993VPV

  • ---
  • Posts: 6
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 11:04:46 AM »
I'm aware of the tire situation. I am getting a professional inspection on all mechanical components (ie: brakes, steering, etc). Yes, it gets 6-7 mpg. The DD has a reputation as a "slobbering beast" but this one has no evidence of ANY leaks. No drips on the parking pad, no signs on engine. I have not been on the roof, but I'll be going now; No leaks , but then again it's been inside for 20 years. I've tested every system inside, all good. I need to run the a/c's again as it was a cool day when I tested. I have driven it (and a number of others over the years). REALLY solid! Never drove air brakes before but they sure will stop it quick! Comes up to 90psi in about 4-6 minutes after start up. Sneezes at 120 just like it's designed. The fridge was a known issue before I started testing. It's a Domatic RM-3863 so replacement possibilities are RM2852 or 3963. I kinda looked at Norcold. Thoughts/advice here??

What's the popular choice for RV Insurance? What about NC DOT regarding inspections, etc? any potential problems?

Thanks!!
S

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60985
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 11:17:59 AM »
Sounds splendid, if you like those vintage rigs. The Vogue is a real classic and I've looked longingly at a couple of them myself.  But you are looking at considerable expense despite the excellent service it has had.   Dead fridge - could be something fairly simple, or could be a $2500+ labor replacement. Tires are another $3500 or so. New a/c is $800 + labor, back-up camera cold be several hundred $, etc.   I would have to say that $25k is no bargain - more like top dollar given the obvious needs.

Are you a handyman? Older rigs are a labor of love, even more so than any RV. If you have to pay a pro for every bit of repair or service, it may seem like an albatross around your neck after a year or two. But if you can do some of the work yourself, it becomes much more practical.

All-in-all, though, a well kept premium rig is a rare find and worth some extra effort, I think.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

1993VPV

  • ---
  • Posts: 6
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 03:53:28 PM »
Yes, I am definately adept with my hands, brain, and tools. I can even follow directions, in case of extreme duress. I actually own a supply/hardware/fastener/tool distributor business. I can handle fridge removal and install. That'll be $1500 all in. As for the front a/c: I could leave it alone and run the rooftop units or fix it. It won't be me doing that job though. Gauges I can replace, even if it's the sending units. Tires, I understand that truck tires are not cheap. I expect to have to drop another $10k on STUFF after purchase. I thinks that's why I came here. I want to make sure pushing the widow down to $20k was not taking advantage of her. It's not ALL I'll spend bringing the unit back to 100% but it's half. Does that seem fair??

Thanks,
S

BLAKDUKE

  • ---
  • Posts: 374
  • point rig west, don't stop till you hit surf
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 07:38:04 AM »
If the word "LUXURY" is what is driving this operation, do what you have to do, then so be it.  How ever for the kind of money that you are indicating you have available, I would keep looking.  Maybe drop down a bit in Luxury and step up a bit in condition.  I have a hard time in reconciling 'well maintained' and 3 gauges not working, fridge dead, a/c dead, needing tires.  That does not indicate 'well maintained' to me.

This MHO, I could be wrong.

ALK
Al Kahl
2000 CruiseMaster by Georgie Boy DP

deandec

  • ---
  • Posts: 37
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 12:18:31 PM »
You are handy, have cash set aside for repairs, are getting a pro to look at the drive train, and seem to have diagnosed the problems carefully.  In other words you are far more educated/informed that I was when buying my rig 11 years ago.

If this pristine rig makes your heart go whacky, buy it and enjoy it.

But, I too have seen the negative comments about the Detroit engine.  Most folks want the Series 60. 

So after considering that possible negative, go for it.
Dean
95 Country Coach Magna + Jeep GC

Ernie Ekberg

  • ---
  • Posts: 1480
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 12:21:06 PM »
sounds good- nice units, I had a 6v92 and used it for many years, it did like to leak oil, however
Ernie Ekberg, Weatherford, Tx
Prevost Liberty Classic XL
www.ernieekbergflooring.net

bucks2

  • Guest
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 06:13:33 PM »
I can think of two reasons that there's no oil underneath this Detroit Diesel engine.

1.) Somebody moved the drip pan just before you got there.

2.) Check the dipstick, there's no oil in the engine.

There was a story once about a DD brand new from the factory and in the first 1,000 miles it didn't leak a drop of oil. They took it back under warranty and 'fixed' it until it did.

We had to retrain drivers to keep track of mileage and time on the rigs when we made the change from the V-model Detroits to the inline 6's. Pouring in a gallon of new oil every couple of days effectively changed the oil every couple of weeks, they'd never had to worry about a formal oil change before.

Check the gauges and the fridge on that rig and see if maybe they're made by Lucas. The low mileage might not be because they wanted to drive so little, it may have been been because the couldn't drive anymore. Lucas fridge's are why parts of the world drink warm beer.

I'll be here all week......
Ken

99WinAdventurer37G

  • ---
  • Posts: 1150
  • Life's a series of experiences, enjoy every one.
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 08:38:14 PM »
I've driven trucks for over 30 years.  The 6V92 was a motor that when we were talking about mileage, we meant oil.  It was normal for them to take a gallon of oil every 1,000 miles.  I believe if you want to give them $20,000 for it, you would be making a most generous offer.  And if you're happy with that, and she's happy with that, then $20,000 is the market value of that coach.

1999 Winnebago Adventurer 37G , Ford V-10
2006 Honda VTX 1300S

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 60985
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 07:36:51 AM »
I think Blakduke has a point - it appears the chassis may have been well-maintained but the house has been somewhat neglected.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

RonPatt

  • ---
  • Posts: 278
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 02:51:34 PM »
I'm aware of the tire situation. I am getting a professional inspection on all mechanical components (ie: brakes, steering, etc). Yes, it gets 6-7 mpg. The DD has a reputation as a "slobbering beast" but this one has no evidence of ANY leaks. No drips on the parking pad, no signs on engine. I have not been on the roof, but I'll be going now; No leaks , but then again it's been inside for 20 years. I've tested every system inside, all good. I need to run the a/c's again as it was a cool day when I tested. I have driven it (and a number of others over the years). REALLY solid! Never drove air brakes before but they sure will stop it quick! Comes up to 90psi in about 4-6 minutes after start up. Sneezes at 120 just like it's designed. The fridge was a known issue before I started testing. It's a Domatic RM-3863 so replacement possibilities are RM2852 or 3963. I kinda looked at Norcold. Thoughts/advice here??

What's the popular choice for RV Insurance? What about NC DOT regarding inspections, etc? any potential problems?

Thanks!!
S
As long as safety basics: lights, turn signals, horn, wipers, tires, etc. are working properly there should be no NC inspection issues.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 02:54:05 PM by RonPatt »
2003 Fleetwood Discovery
2005 Cavalier

37vogueprimavista

  • Posts: 2
  • 1990 37' Vogue Prima Vista 3208cat
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2017, 11:42:36 PM »
We purchased our 1990 Prima vista May of 2016... WOW!! Yes,most definately a labor of love. But sooo worth it.. New tires,Airbags,belts hoses,waste gates..The fun just keeps coming.. The quality of the rig is really worth the money fixing it up... And we made the deal of the century on it.. I have lots of questions though.... Like the front house a/c... why people just don't fix things instead of making more problems.. (adding a roof a/c)ugh..

Regards,
Sean McCoy
Regards,
Sean McCoy

DearMissMermaid

  • ---
  • Posts: 2146
  • Read my mis-adventures at DearMissMermaid.Com
    • DearMissMermaid.Com
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2017, 07:34:47 AM »
It sounds like you are already in love with it.

The "well maintained" seems to be a study in contrasts. It seems the logs are very well maintained, while many other things were overlooked on the rig. Maybe they stopped using it and repairing it. Reading the logs might give you a hint if it's been sitting around alot what with only 45000 miles on it, kind of sad they didn't get much use out of it in 23 years, though theorhetically that is about 2 vacations per year in it.

Fridges often won't work without a strong house battery working too. Personally I would put in the biggest fridge that will fit in the space allotted. If you have to replace the front roof AC then you might want to consider a heat pump that includes heat as well as AC. It's so cold this morning in Florida, I am glad I put in a heat pump when my AC died for good. I still have a propane furnace that works, just that it's nice to have the electric heat option with the heat pump. Of course most all AC's these days do allow for the option of adding a heat strip which is cheaper than the heat pump.

Just for grins, two things to consider. One is to google and look at other prima vistas just to see what's out there, and see if you can find any other owners to talk to. One site said only 23 of those built in 93. Some owners have their pictures posted of their Prima Vistas even though they are not for sale.

The one you are talking about... it sounds nearly identical to one I was looking at last year that kept coming up for auction. Not sure if they ever sold it or not, the auction kept ending with reserve not met. At the time I was having a heck of a time getting info from the seller, I never could figure out if it was a dealer or a private owner, I think it was a wanna-be-dealer or someone trying to work on consignment.

Also, go look at other used rigs. It gives you ideas and options and will let you know if you are really in love with this one or not.

Most anything you buy used requires another chunk of change to get all systems going so it's good you have money set aside for this. Many don't then they are in for a shock when they find out a used rig has needs.

Good luck and keep us updated!

I do like those Vogues. I am envious and hope something good works out for you.
http://DearMissMermaid.Com

Living, working. playing  in a Class C, 1994 Tioga Montara, 28'

Pack half the stuff and twice the cash.
http://dearmissmermaid.blogspot.com/

KandT

  • ---
  • Posts: 787
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 07:49:07 PM »
Well?  Did you buy it?  Pics?
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

timjet

  • ---
  • Posts: 142
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 05:35:22 AM »
I agree with BLAKDUKE, the house portion needs some expensive work. It's doubtful in my opinion the chassis is in good shape if the house is in the mechanical condition you described. A good chassis inspection by a repair shop would help in easing your concerns about the motor and chassis. You might be buying a money pit anyway.
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

RVRAC

  • ---
  • Posts: 1072
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 09:59:06 AM »
It sounds like when someone buys a real old house.  Every week there is something to be fixed.  If that is your cup of tea, go ahead and enjoy it.  If you want to put a lot of miles traveling that might be a challenge.
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Toad: 2016 Jeep Patriot
American Dolly
Home: WI
Snowbird 6 months/yr.

KandT

  • ---
  • Posts: 787
Re: About to dive in. What am I missing/neglecting?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 09:09:00 PM »
I never understood logging every use as he describes with the gen set.  What are you going to do with the information that August 17tn 2004 it was run 0.7 hours?

Logging maintenance hours sure but each use?  I don't get it.
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

 

Hosted by Over The Network