Photographic knowledge and tips for beginners

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Five years ago my cell phone saved my life so it is always either in my pocket or within easy reach. I still miss a lot of shots but I do get quite a few.
 
Speaking of cell phones, I was out wandering around my yard yesterday and spotted a cool looking mushroom. I got down on the ground, turned on the flash and took a shot. I just looked at it after it was automatically uploaded to my Chromebook and a message appeared on the top of the page asking me if I wanted to fix the brightness since I was a bit too close and blew out the mushroom. I clicked OK and it fixed it. I don't miss the old days of having to use Photoshop or Lightroom to do the same thing. Now Google does it for me. 
 

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Bird.  I wish you would give it up. A cell phone will never replace a DSLR with good glass and a pro who is great at post processing. 
 
MN Blue Skies said:
Bird.  I wish you would give it up. A cell phone will never replace a DSLR with good glass and a pro who is great at post processing.
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing
 
MN Blue Skies said:
A cell phone will never replace a DSLR with good glass and a pro who is great at post processing.

Pretty overly broad statement IMO saying "never" as there are many who have done just that-- forsaken their DSLRs for cell phones. I would agree that cell phone cameras may not replace DSLRs when it comes to working as a pro-- although numerous "pros" make some amazing images with cell phones.

 
SeilerBird said:
Speaking of cell phones, I was out wandering around my yard yesterday and spotted a cool looking mushroom. I got down on the ground, turned on the flash and took a shot. I just looked at it after it was automatically uploaded to my Chromebook and a message appeared on the top of the page asking me if I wanted to fix the brightness since I was a bit too close and blew out the mushroom. I clicked OK and it fixed it. I don't miss the old days of having to use Photoshop or Lightroom to do the same thing. Now Google does it for me.

Tom, I'm glad you posted this. To keep this on topic, meaning basics for beginners, your picture is a prime example of how completely blown out whites can't be recovered. The only direction one can go from completely blown out whites is gray and that's exactly what has happened with the auto picture correction. There is still no detail in that, now gray, area. The total frontal blast of the flash makes everything else appear harsh with very harsh shadows. This was not a prime subject for a cell phone used with flash and then some software manufacturer's idea of how to "correct" it. The cell phone's metering system can't handle this situation nor should it have been forced to by trying flash. Software correction made a bad picture no better.
This is not necessarily a knock on cell phone photography, but is a comment on what happens when trying to correct a completely blown out image especially allowing software to fix it "automatically". Hoping to keep this in the tips for beginners category.
 
Hammster said:
Tom, I'm glad you posted this. To keep this on topic, meaning basics for beginners, your picture is a prime example of how completely blown out whites can't be recovered. The only direction one can go from completely blown out whites is gray and that's exactly what has happened with the auto picture correction. There is still no detail in that, now gray, area. The total frontal blast of the flash makes everything else appear harsh with very harsh shadows. This was not a prime subject for a cell phone used with flash and then some software manufacturer's idea of how to "correct" it. The cell phone's metering system can't handle this situation nor should it have been forced to by trying flash. Software correction made a bad picture no better.
This is not necessarily a knock on cell phone photography, but is a comment on what happens when trying to correct a completely blown out image especially allowing software to fix it "automatically". Hoping to keep this in the tips for beginners category.
I am the one who really messed this shot up. I only took one shot instead of several. I didn't take any time at all focusing and composing. I have bad knees and a bad back and I got down on the ground and I was in pain so I was in a hurry. The flash was not chosen by the cell phone, I switched the flash to On because it was not going to use the flash. The whites were not blown out at all, they weren't even washed out, just dull. The whole point of my post was not to judge anything other than my shock that software could perceive a fault and fix it. 99% of my shots don't need correcting. The Pixel does an amazing job of figuring things out. It was a mistake for me to post it and I am sorry I did because several people are trying to defend DSLRs and using this photo to do so. 
 
The cell phone flash seemed to focus on an area above and behind the mushroom.  Bird your post was confusing.  Did the cell phone select the lighting or did you choose the lighting?  The leaves in the background seem soft and out of focus.  Was the depth of field chosen by the cell phone or you?
 
Tom said:
Aye Larry, and that's one of the challenges with a "add your tips" topic such as this. Another challenge is knowing when/where to split the discussion. In some casess, a neophyte such as I will ask a simple question, but the answer may be more complex than I thought.

FWIW I already split a bunch of messages into a separate topic just a month ago. I'm always open to suggestions on where to split a topic.

Hi Tom, maybe one way to split the topics would be one for Cell Phone Photography and another for DSLR Photography.  Just a thought.
 
MN Blue Skies said:
Hi Tom, maybe one way to split the topics would be one for Cell Phone Photography and another for DSLR Photography.  Just a thought.
If you're going to take that tack, it should be dedicated camera devices vs cell phones (which are really multifunction pocket computers), but the original purpose of this topic was to aid folks in a very basic understanding of photography for beginners (as the title says), similar to the more simple parts of the Kodak "How To" series, rather than to get into the more advanced topics. Advanced amateurs, semi-pros and pros don't need this topic at all, and those parts should go into a topic for more advanced photography, IMO. Granted there will be a little overlap, but debates over the "best way," "the best camera," or "my favorite procedure" and such should be a separate topic, it seems to me.

Sometimes more advanced folks lose the perspective of what's really needed for beginners (rule of thirds, steadiness, etc.), so perhaps Tom could create another topic pinned next to this one for "Photographic knowledge and tips for advanced photographers" and move portions of this topic into it. Or perhaps there should both a cell phone topic and an advanced topic.
 
Larry N. said:
Sometimes more advanced folks lose the perspective of what's really needed for beginners (rule of thirds, steadiness, etc.), so perhaps Tom could create another topic pinned next to this one for "Photographic knowledge and tips for advanced photographers" and move portions of this topic into it. Or perhaps there should both a cell phone topic and an advanced topic.
I don't feel the need for another topic for advanced photographers. There are dozens of web sites and blogs that cover the subject much better than I ever could.
 
I think any of the dozens of photo specific forums on other sites with vast KBs of information and discussion threads would be a much better place to go for "advanced" discussions. Seems quite satisfactory to me to have a single area here where folks of all levels of photography can go to learn and share information. I've taught a number of photography classes for years-- many with very new amateurs and have never had a class where I didn't learn something myself!  :)

Larry N. said:
If you're going to take that tack, it should be dedicated camera devices vs cell phones (which are really multifunction pocket computers), but the original purpose of this topic was to aid folks in a very basic understanding of photography for beginners (as the title says), similar to the more simple parts of the Kodak "How To" series, rather than to get into the more advanced topics. Advanced amateurs, semi-pros and pros don't need this topic at all, and those parts should go into a topic for more advanced photography, IMO. Granted there will be a little overlap, but debates over the "best way," "the best camera," or "my favorite procedure" and such should be a separate topic, it seems to me.

Sometimes more advanced folks lose the perspective of what's really needed for beginners (rule of thirds, steadiness, etc.), so perhaps Tom could create another topic pinned next to this one for "Photographic knowledge and tips for advanced photographers" and move portions of this topic into it. Or perhaps there should both a cell phone topic and an advanced topic.
 
SeilerBird said:
I don't feel the need for another topic for advanced photographers. There are dozens of web sites and blogs that cover the subject much better than I ever could.
True, Tom, but note that a number of advanced subjects are in this topic. But the main reason I suggested that was the suggestion of one topic for DSLR and one for "cell phone." There are a large number of ways things could be split up, probably none of them needed.
 
jymbee said:
I've taught a number of photography classes for years-- many with very new amateurs and have never had a class where I didn't learn something myself!  :)

Jymbee, do you teach ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed (Exposure Triangle) in your photography classes that include new amateurs or do you think that is that too advanced for beginning photographers? 
 
MN Blue Skies said:
Jymbee, do you teach ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed (Exposure Triangle) in your photography classes that include new amateurs or do you think that is that too advanced for beginning photographers?

I think at least a basic understanding of these elements is essential to going beyond what you can achieve with simple point & shoot IMO. Having said that, there's nothing wrong at all with not going beyond point & shoot for many picture takers. In those cases  I would just work with them to get them to think more creatively rather than just:

"Stand in front of that statue, SMILE, CLICK".
"Stand in front of that mountain, SMILE, CLICK".  :)

One of the most fascinating photo classes I've seen while not taught by myself but rather my partner was a photo class for special needs students. These folks were given cameras with not much more instruction than to go out and take some photos. When they turned in the media cards I wasn't actually expecting much but as it turned out I was amazed at many of the images! I would not be surprised if some of them would have placed very high in a photo contest (but don't get me going about photo contests!). Another case of me learning what can be done from the students.  :)

Another time I was attending a convention of professional aerial photographers (I do a lot of aerial work) and one of the featured speakers was a world-renowned aerial photographer. At the conclusion there was a Q&A and many in attendance started asking questions of a pretty technical nature related to his gear & technique. It was quite interesting how many times his answer was simply "I don't know". He just knew how to capture what he wanted. One really doesn't need to get deep into the weeds to produce great images.  :))
 
jymbee said:
One of the most fascinating photo classes I've seen while not taught by myself but rather my partner was a photo class for special needs students. These folks were given cameras with not much more instruction than to go out and take some photos. When they turned in the media cards I wasn't actually expecting much but as it turned out I was amazed at many of the images! I would not be surprised if some of them would have placed very high in a photo contest (but don't get me going about photo contests!). Another case of me learning what can be done from the students.  :)

A young guy in the UK with Downs Syndrome is making a living doing photography:

https://www.oliverhellowell.com/gallery.php

Everyone has a speciality!
 
jackiemac said:
A young guy in the UK with Downs Syndrome is making a living doing photography:

https://www.oliverhellowell.com/gallery.php

Everyone has a speciality!

Jackie what a great link.  Inspiring!
 
@SellerBird - Your post on Photography Tips For Beginners motivated me to join this group; well that and I occasionally look for answers to my rv questions... Anyway I wish I could say in a positive way, but unfortunately I have to disagree with many of your initial "tips."
1. Shooting with the sun directly at the back of your head is NOT how quality images are created. Undressing light patterns and their impact on subject is much more informative. Ideally the sun will be at a 45/45 degree angle. That is 45 degrees elevation and at the 2:00 or 10:00 position. There are also many instances where you may choose to have the sun directly behind the subject or beside it. Basically there are 6 key light patterns: Broad, Short, Loop, Modified Loop, Split and Butterfly. With these patterns the only one that even approaches having the light directly behind the photographer's head is Butterfly (aka Paramount).
2. I am a professional photographer certified by Professional Photographers of America (CPP) and Wedding and Portrait Photographers International (WPPI-C) in addition to holding a BA degree in photography. I have over 25 years experience with professional grade Nikon equipment. I do not know every feature of my cameras, nor do I intend to read the 500+ page manual for each piece of equipment. I learn the basic operations and carry the manual with me for the few times I may need a reference.
3. I agree :)
4. I totally disagree that a subject 10 miles away isn't impressive. Sunsets, landscapes etc all have beauty and often times are more than 10 miles away. I get your point that with landscapes for example you typically want to focus about 1/3rd of the way into the image, but that is simply a rule. I'll post a picture I took that I think is quite impressive and is only a mere 1,500 light years away.
5. One of the first things you learn in professional photography is that each shutter click costs money. Not just the wear and tear on equipment, but processing time and storage space. I understand this is a beginners guide, however, 15 angles of the same subject is far less likely to yield a quality result as one or two pre-visualized images captured well.
11. I strongly disagree with your comment about shooting down on a subject, especially women. In fact, during the portfolio review for certification not shooting at a slight downward angle will disqualify many photographers from certification. Understanding forced perspective, why how and why its used is a more advanced subject, but simply put anything closer to the camera lens will be larger and anything further away smaller. I'm not by any means suggesting you stand and shoot down on a sitting woman, but putting the camera at forehead level and a slight downward tilt is the PREFERRED placement for portraiture. It will help to significantly minimize an overweight subject...

I appreciate and understand that you are offering your tips and pointers to new photographers and you make a few valid points but I'm obliged to comment on those areas that are patently incorrect. There is an expression - Lighting and Pose separate the Pro's from the Joes...
I've attached a couple of random images for credibility :)
 

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Sorry, I'm new this should have been one thread up :(  Anyway, here's the image from 1,500 light years away that I think is impressive...
 

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harrington63 said:
@SellerBird - Your post on Photography Tips For Beginners motivated me to join this group; well that and I occasionally look for answers to my rv questions... Anyway I wish I could say in a positive way, but unfortunately I have to disagree with many of your initial "tips."
Welcome to our forum.

The only rule about photography is in the eye of the beholder. When you are a professional photographer you have to play by the rules of what sells that does not mean that everyone else is wrong, photography is not an exact science!
 

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