what's hard on a "power steering box"?

HI folks,

I ask this question as my 1990 Winnebago Elandan sits at a Ford dealership awaiting a rebuilt "power steering box"--the second one in two and a half years.

So, is it just bad luck with a poor rebuild of the last one installed?  Is it too much heat (as a result of the Banks PowerPack)?  Is it not changing the power steering fluid after two years? 

I'm no techie, but I'm still at a common sense loss as to what might be causing the problem?

Ciao,

Doug

Was is previously rebuilt by a Ford dealer, if so it should be warrantied.At least that's my interpitation of their policies.  If they fix it it's their baby.  Maybe I'm wrong but that's the understanding I have.  Check into it.  Sure wouldn't hurt to check on it.  I know of no reason a Steering gear should fail unless it's leaking badly, and you would certainly notice that. Sorry can't help you, I've never have one go out.

Hi Shayne,

Was it previously rebuilt by a Ford dealer, if so it should be warrantied.

No, it was rebuilt by a third party "reman" business.  Ford no longer makes this part, ie., you can't buy a new one, nor do they rebuild them (I don't think Ford is in the "reman" business), so you're stuck having to go the third party route.

I can say categorically that the steering box was not leaking in the weeks and months prior to its failure--that is, no sign of oil of any kind on the concrete driveway where the rig is parked.

But this failure behaviour does seem strange to me.

Ciao,

Doug

Doug,

Is it a recirculating ball type p.s. unit connected to a Pittman arm, or is it a hydraulic assist rack and pinion setup? How did it fail - suddenly stop working? Low assist? Could also be the p.s. pump over-pressure valve sticking open - was the output pressure checked?

Doug,

What Banks system did you have installed? The one with the tube headers? If so, they may be too close to the unit and it's cooking the p.s. fluid causing it to varnish up. Heat shield may be necessary.

One of the hardest things on a steering gear box is turning your wheels while NOT moving. Unfortunately, a lot of people (me included) tend to do just that. If you need to turn while stopped, if at all possible let the vehicle roll a bit (forward or backward, makes no difference). While stopped, it puts a whole gob of strain on the entire steering assembly which includes the tires.

Larry

No, I don't turn the wheels while stationary.


As to what type, I don't know. 

I do know it may be overcooking and perhaps the valve is sticking open because of the overheating from the Banks' headers being too close.  I think I'll have a heat shield of some kind installed.

Thanks for comments.

Ciao,

Doug

Doug,

You should be able to make a suitable heat shield from light gauge galvanized mild steel or even roofing flashing material. Home depot or other hardware stores carry both. There is an insulating material called "header wrap" which is used to insulate the headers themselves, and is wrapped around the individual tubes. DO NOT use that! It will shorten the life of the headers dramatically!!!! It can, however, be used to wrap around oil and fuel hoses if they are too close to the headers.

Doug

When I had my Banks System I used one of those non-burn air-bake cookie sheet. It worked great to shield the starter motor. Your wife will know what they are.<G>

You might also use a quality oil for the hydraulic oil in the system. I would recommend using Mobil 1, in the 10-30 viscosity.
Being a synthetic, it will withstand much higher temperatures without breaking down and causing varnish.
Good Luck!
Dodgeman

Hi folks,

Been away (a reunion of ourselves with our sons and their families) for the past six days--at a place with neither cel phone reception nor easy internet connectivity; didn't even take my notebook with me--hence the reason for no replies from me.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement to get more heat shielding in place--hadn't really thought about protecting the starter motor!

Ciao,

Doug

Dodgeman,

You might also use a quality oil for the hydraulic oil in the system. I would recommend using Mobil 1, in the 10-30 viscosity.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea. Motor oil can cause seal swelling and ultimate failure, and they foam much more than power steering/atf fluid. Also the viscosity is totally incorrect.  Same problem with using synthetic brake fluid (DOT 5) in regular brake systems. They will suffer premature failure with possible catastrophic results.

Greetings Karl,
I have had extensive experience (40+ years) in the mobile equipment hydraulic industry. I once had an application where our machines were operating in desert conditions, with ambient temperatures in the 120F range. The oil temperatures in the hydraulic systems were running 250F plus. We were having drift issues of the hydraulic cylinders due to internal leakage of the main control valves. This was a spool to bore clearance issue of metal parts.
We changed the oil in the systems to a Mobil 1 type product, which because of its being a synthetic product and having an excellent viscosity index and stability, solved the overheating and valve internal leakage  problems. These were 3300psi systems.
Caterpillar for many years used the same oil in their diesel engines and hydraulic systems with no issues. They got away from that now because of the higher demands on the engine oil, not the hydraulic oil.
The viscosity is correct, similar to ISO 46 hydraulic oil. Foaming is not an issue, as "motor oil" has anti foaming agents in it.
To be clear, I am recommending a synthetic power steering fluid or engine oil such as Mobil 1 if the steering system uses power steering fluid. If the steering system uses automatic transmission fluid, I would use Mobil Synthetic ATF.
Synthetic brake fluid (DOT 5)  is a silicone fluid, and I agree you should never use it in a anti-lock brake system, or any system with a pump. However, I have done many conversions of standard brake systems on older cars over the years to prevent corrosion, and have never had a seal issue. One of these conversions was done on a van 20 years ago, and the system is still working fine to this day.
Best Regards,
Dodgeman

Hi Dodgeman & Karl,

Dodgeman wrote:

To be clear, I am recommending a synthetic power steering fluid or engine oil such as Mobil 1 if the steering system uses power steering fluid. If the steering system uses automatic transmission fluid, I would use Mobil Synthetic ATF.

I'm pretty sure that the system in my Winnebago Elandan uses power steering fluid--I carry a bottle of that to keep the "cold level" up to mark when cold; but, I haven't had to add any.

Ciao,

Doug
PS:  of course, it's brake fluid in the brake system.  Somewhere between these two is  hydraboost unit.  To be clear, this stuff is all Greek to me.

Dodgeman,

I agree that a synthetic ATF fluid could be used, but not a motor oil. I didn't mean to add confusion by bringing up the brake fluid issue, which is seperate and distinct. As a tech inspector with SCCA, part of my job is to help analyze the cause of crashes and, as you might imagine, a number of them are brake related. In many of the total brake failure cases, we've found that the competitor has used the newer, higher boiling point, synthetic brake fluids in systems that were not modified for it (seals, o-rings, boots, master cylinder components). Unlike the type of equipment you're had so much experience with, older vehicle brake systems, i.e. those without components specifically designed for the newer fluids, will deteriorate much more rapidly under heavy use and high temperatures.

I'm curious - when you mentioned doing conversions, what specifically did you do?

Kindest,

Karl   

Hi Karl,
Not just any motor oil, but the synthetic type such as Mobil 1. Not only have I used it in high pressure hydraulic systems, but I have used it in automotive power steering systems (rack and pinion) for cold weather. It eases the stiffness of the system in -10F or colder starts, but is also stable at the higher temperatures.
The "conversions" I did were usually replacement and/or rebuilding of the master cyl and wheel cyls because of bad rust which was causing leaks. I used standard over the counter seals, and then filled the systems with silicon DOT 5 brake fluid. These were not high performance vehicles, but usually older cars that the owner wanted to prevent any future corrosion or rust. I wonder how many of the failures you inspected were due to false confidence by the driver in the brake fluid? I totally agree that changing the fluid alone will not make the system a high performance system. The seals would need to be upgraded  as well.
Elkhart Lake? Now I'm jealous. I'm sure you've had a chance to go over to St. Ann's (Anna) for the terrific steak dinners?
Regards,
Dodgeman

Dodgeman,

Schwartz's? ... 1 1/2" thick steaks that hang over all sides of the (huge) plate? ... parties in the parking lot while waiting to be seated? Nah, never been there ;D I work for RA, SCCA, and Skip Barber during the summer.

Regards,
Karl