Tires question

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BinaryBob

BinaryBob

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Hi all..
going to look at a 2005 class A with 10,000 miles.
Has original tires. The dealer was quite adamant about the "myth" of requiring new tires every 6-7 years.
He doesn't know where that came from. Told me if the tires are "checkered" then you have a problem.
1. What is "tire checkering"?
2. Is the 6-7 year rule hard and fast?
Thanks...
 
It's only a myth to people who are trying to sell.  It sure isn't to those who have had blow outs and done damage to their unit.  The problem is that tires that sit can wear out  Checking does not indicate that.  If you pull your tires off each year and inspect the insides (which nobody does) you can tell better.  The attached photo is of a tire on my fifth-wheel that blew last winter while driving about 55-60 MPH on a relatively cool day.  I keep the air pressure checked and as you can see, the tires have plenty of tread left and no checking.  But it blew going around Tampa on I-75 and caused me a lot of grief.  The tire was six years old.



 

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I can tell you from experience (and not a good one) that age plays a major factor in tires, especially tires that do more sitting than rolling. Around here it is generally recommended that tires be replaced at 6 or 7 years, and some tire manufacturers recommend 10 years. Even at the ten year limit, those are getting close. Tires can be breaking down without any apparent checking on the outside, mine did. I had the same issue with a sales guy on the last motorhome we bought with 5 year old tires on it and finally got them to go for half the cost. Before we drove it anywhere, it went to the tire shop.

It's just not worth the risk to drive at freeway speeds on old tires. A front blowout can not only take you off the road and endanger your family, but can also do major damage to your motorhome.
 
Thanks all for the confirmation.
These tires are 8 years old. Going to pass. Don't need a $3,000 haggling point, that should be haggleless.
 
I wonder what his reaction would be if you brought him an RV to trade or sell, and it had eight year old tires.  I bet it would be mighty important to him then.
 
He's a salesman, he believes strongly in both sides of the arguement. Which side he argues depends on which side of the sale he is currently negotiating.

KEn
 
When we negotiated the purchase of our Beaver, we had in writing in the contract that the tires would be replaced by the dealer at his cost. We also stipulated that only the following brands were acceptable, or the deal was null and void. Definitely, nothing made in China.

Michelin, Goodyear, Firestone, Bridgestone, Toyo, or Yokahama.

He called twice complaining he couldn't find these brands in our size. At the last moment, when we were ready to move on, he found some Yokahamas that we okayed. Its all part of the negotiating. And I'm not going to take the person who means the most to me in the whole world out in today's traffic without safe tires.
 
In case it is not well known..  Yokohama tires are labelled Made in USA..  At least on the ones I bought for my minvan.
 
COMer said:
I wonder what his reaction would be if you brought him an RV to trade or sell, and it had eight year old tires.  I bet it would be mighty important to him then.
Click to expand...

If you're ready to deal on the trailer, ask your sales guy to meet you half way on a new tire set. 
 
I would be willing to negotiate the tires but his asking price was already well over average retail, even allowing for the mileage adjustment. Plus given his adamant opinion about how ridiculous it is to replace 10,000 mile tires, I don't think this negotiation would go very far. Too bad. This one was actually in MN.
 
The 7 years isn't "hard and fast".  You might get 10 years from those tires. Or you might not.  I prefer not to gamble with tires, but maybe the dealer doesn't mind doing it. Of course, in this case he is would be gambling with your money/safety/inconvenience.

Michelin is on record stating that tires should be inspected annually starting in year five and replaced in year 10 regardless.
 
In a 295/80R22.5 Yokohama's run $100+ less than Goodyears, Bridgestones etc.
Yokohoma's are good tires. I wouldn't hesitate to run them on my motorhome.

ken

 
Gary RV Roamer said:
Michelin is on record stating that tires should be inspected annually starting in year five and
replaced in year 10 regardless.
Click to expand...
They have a vested interest in getting tires replaced as often as possible.  I'm not saying tires shouldn't be replaced, but supporting the argument with a statement from a tire manufacturer with an obvious conflict of interest doesn't support the position well.

I have a friend who's been 30 years in the tire industry as a microscopist who specializes in material failure and quality control.  I have no idea why I've never asked him in the past...  Maybe he's got some good hard facts about this.

EDIT: just fired off an email, if I get any good relevant information I'll post here. 
 
The Michelin statement is often used to suggest that they feel that their tires are good for ten years and of course, that isn't what they say.  I don't know anybody who pulls their tires yearly and inspects them.  Apparently they are saying that tires over five years have enough of a risk factor that they should be checked.  If you have ever had a blowout on a busy interstate, running six-year old tires that looked just fine, you will be hard pressed to believe that you ought to run your next set of tires for ten years. 
 
braindead said:
They have a vested interest in getting tires replaced as often as possible.  I'm not saying tires shouldn't be replaced, but supporting the argument with a statement from a tire manufacturer with an obvious conflict of interest doesn't support the position well.

I have a friend who's been 30 years in the tire industry as a microscopist who specializes in material failure and quality control.  I have no idea why I've never asked him in the past...  Maybe he's got some good hard facts about this.

EDIT: just fired off an email, if I get any good relevant information I'll post here.
Click to expand...

Before retirement I was a sales rep for a national freight company. My largest account was a tire factory which produced truck, rv, and agricultural tires for Goodyear. Each month, over the years, I had lunch with the plant manager and the production and inventory manager. After getting in to RVing, of course I asked them to give me a detailed 'raw material to useless' timeline. The most significant thing I learned was that from the time they come out of the press, tires are always curing, and they never stop. Climate, exposure to UV rays, and use contribute to the eventual length of the timeline. There is nothing you can do to stop the degrading. To a man, they said if the tire came off the press and sat on a shelf for 6 years, they would never have it on any vehicle they drove. Everthing other than just sitting shortens their life.

FWIW, just what I was told many times from the "horse's mouth", so to speak.
 
Check the date that is on the side wall of the tires. They could very well be eight years old. I would, at the very least, put new steer tires on before I even drove it home more that 50 or 60 miles.
 
Sadly the friend of mine who worked for Goodyear didn't directly deal with this particular aspect.  However he did have the following to say:

Many of the anti-oxidants and anti-ozonates that protect tires are a little volital.  After 5-7 years under load, inflated and experiencing varying temperatures I would be begin to worry about the tires.  If it was a classic car that just stood there, I'd have no worries, but zipping around on old tires, even if they had plenty of tread left, I'd be concern with tire failure.

I was told at GY that tires stored in ordinary non-air conditioned warehouses are destroyed after three years because of the lose of  anti-oxidants and anti-ozonates.

That my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
So his opinion seem to roughly agree with what I think we've all heard from various sources.

I found (somewhere) a scientific paper on rubber aging however it didn't draw any real conclusions.  I suspect that the main problem is environmental, nobody want's to say 'X' is the number of years because because there are too many factors that contribute to the aging process.  Temperatures, ozone levels, sun exposure, etc. 
 
As noted above, tires continue to age from the time they are molded until they turn into a rigid material or crack (nearly any synthetic elastomer, Natural rubber softens instead of hardening).

More specifically, this hardening proceeds in accordance with the Ahrennious (sp) equation with aging rate doubling for each 16 deg F (nearly an exact value) increase in temperature.  I've found through actual test of products (literally millions of dollars worth) that seven years is a very realistic value to the point where damage starts to become apparent.

Ernie
 
If you look at the above picture, it looks like the blow out occured between the treads.  That is where you have to look for cracking.  My 2002 5er was bought used from the original owner in 2010.  No wear was on the tread, but there were cracks between the treads.  Put on new Firestones as those
were the only brand locally that were made in the USA.  At this point I don't put enough miles on to merit Michelins-but that time will come when I retire.
 
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