Edumucate me on diesel trucks

As I've mentioned on another thread, I'm kicking around the idea of a new pickup this fall.  I've narrowed it down to a Ram 2500/3500 or Ford Superduty.  I'd really like a diesel.....I tow in very high elevations and up and down a lot of steep grades.  Some areas, I'm getting near 10,000' in elevation, and the air gets mighty thin up there. 

I've never owned a diesel pickup before.  With that in mind, I'm doing a ton of reading on here and elsewhere about the ups and downs of owning one.  I understand that a diesel requires different maintenance, and that repairs (once it's out of warranty) will be much pricier.  What I really want to know is what to expect.

Assumptions:

I will buy it new.  If a used diesel with 100K miles is still $20K, why not buy it new?
It will get driven 4000-5000 miles a year. 
My TT grosses at near 8000 lbs
I tow in the high country
I do nearly all of my own wrenching on all of my other vehicles.  I'm no stranger to engine swaps, OBD II diagnostics, etc...but I 've never worked on a diesel.
I am meticulous about maintenance
I want to keep this truck 10-15 years....maybe longer.


What's really kinda freaking me out is reading stories about $5000 injector replacements and the like.  I can easily pull a fuel rail and replace my own injectors on a gasser....so is this something that should concern me down the road?  What other monumental repairs might I expect and when?

See, here's the thing....I'm almost leaning towards another gasser for the very reason that I understand them inside and out.  An F250 Super Duty gasser is still rated at 12K lbs, as is the Ram, so that's more than adequate....but the gassers all start to wheeze at the high elevations.  The diesel is just better suited to what I do. Gassers are considerably cheaper, but with how long I keep things, cost is really a non-issue....and the diesels have better resale.  I don't want this to be a gas vs diesel thing, I just want a realistic analysis of owning one long term by those who've done it.

No more than I plan on driving it, a diesel may outlive me.  Any other considerations for one that isn't daily driven?

Thanks for any advice and wisdom you can impart. 

15 years at 5000 mi/year=75000 miles
You should not have to do anything to it as far as repair goes.  If anything, it will be external--alternator--water pump or the like. This is the same (almost) as a gas truck.

halfwright said:

15 years at 5000 mi/year=75000 miles
You should not have to do anything to it as far as repair goes.  If anything, it will be external--alternator--water pump or the like. This is the same (almost) as a gas truck.

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All of which I can handle easily.  Really, given a Factory Service Manual and the correct tools, I can dig much deeper if needed. I'm an old school hot rodder, and no stranger to wrenching, but the older I get the less inclined I am to do so. 

What is different from a gasser maintenance wise? 

One of the things my son just cautioned me about is to make sure the cetane numbers for the fuel you get match the numbers required for you engine.  He just had some injectors changed and the mechanic stated that those numbers were critical on his Ford Powerstroke and newer engines.  He was advised to use the Ford additive.  Not sure about Dodge but I will be checking in the next week or so when I go by the dealer.  CAT seems to be advocating their additive where in the past they did not advise any additives.  This seems to have something to do with the ULSD that is now required.  I'm still checking as I only started on this quest this week.

Diesel is the best for heavy towing, with the better mileage fuel cost is about a wash. Initial costs are higher, it is not uncommon to see diesel pickups in our shop with 300,000 miles still running well. Very few gassers with that kind of mileage. More and more fleets are going to diesel, the is a reason, Cost per mile. If trailer towing is what it will be used mostly for diesel is the answer. Almost all transporters of trailers from the factorys use diesels. If you keep up on the maintenance most go 150,000  to 250,000 with little or no majors repairs. My bread and butter is made working on medium duty vehicles. Ford has a new engine which has shown a lot of promise. Chevy has the time tested duramax with the bulletproof allision. Dodges 6.7 with the Asian auto tranny, I like the manual better. All have exhaust brakes available, some with transmission retarders. Steep grades are no longer reason to worry about, up or down. Gassers work very well in most towing, but when you getting close to gcvw diesel is the answer in my opinion. I will probably catch some flack for this, but when you see med duty vehicles day in and out. diesel is the way to go. Cat is no longer making engines for on road use. Your choices are ford, chevy, gmc, dodge in the diesel pickups. In motorhomes add Navistar and the metric brands

Other than needing fuel filters regularly, oil changes being a larger volume, and the diesel-grade coolant requiring periodic additives (SCA/DCA), I don't think a diesel pick-up has much in the way of extra maintenance.

Injectors are expensive even if you do them yourself, but your low mileage forecast suggests you would probably never need them unless dirt gets past the fuel filter somehow. Actually, I don't know why the diesels in pick-ups seem to go through injectors when the larger ones in diesel motorhomes generally do not. Maybe a poorer quality fuel filtering system?

You may have heard about expensive maintenance on diesel pusher motorhomes. That goes well beyond the engine itself and involves the air system, hydraulic system and its filters, a huge crankcase (25-30 quarts), etc.

OK thanks guys, it's starting to become a little clearer.  I will be religious about changing filters, etc. and will follow the manual to the letter, and will of course lean on you guys.   

Another thought that occurs to me is that given the low mileage I anticipate, in 5-7 years it should still have a decent resale value....maybe just figure on a new one every 7 years or so.  If I wouldn't take a massive beating on the depreciation, I would be willing to do that.  And from what I can see, diesels hold their value nicely (6.0 Fords notwithstanding).  I've seen some 7-10 years old with 100K miles selling for $22K.  Doesn't happen with the gassers.

There's a spot between Cloudcroft and Timberon NM where it's 9700' up, and for about a mile, I'm pulling an 8% grade.  With my old 460, it's in low gear and I'm wringing it out for all it's worth.  A diesel would be soooo nice here.

OK....I'm less concerned now.  It's gonna come down to a Cummins or a SuperDuty.  Still gotta save a few more pennies, but hopefully this fall.

Thanks again.

Tagged for later reference... I plan to be in the market for a used diesel truck (for 5th wheel or TT hauling) in the next 2-3 years.

Here's another thread I have saved on general diesel comments and advice:
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=57304

Gary RV Roamer said:

Other than needing fuel filters regularly, oil changes being a larger volume, and the diesel-grade coolant requiring periodic additives (SCA/DCA), I don't think a diesel pick-up has much in the way of extra maintenance.

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Gary....how often is common for changing fuel filters?  How about the coolant additives?  If that's all the extra maintenance we're talking, I'm in.  I'll have to wait a bit longer.....I pay cash for everything, and I can afford the gasser right now, but need to save up a bit more for the diesel.  I can easily get another season out of my old F250. 

Thanks again for all the help.

All brands have areas that could have been designed better but generally Ford people argue for Fords Dodge people swear by Dodge. I've had four Dodge trucks, two being diesel and the only complaint I have is both of the diesels have had a few non engine electrical gremlins but otherwise no significant issues over many towing miles out west. Gary is right diesels insist on very clean fuel and OEM fuel filters often aren't fine enough. I have put three micron filters on both diesels and have had no injector issues. If you look at a Dodge I think the 5.9 Cummins engines are hard to beat for durability.

Thanks Gerry.  The new Cummins are 6.7l, correct?  I'm assuming their legendary reliability is still there.  I know nothing will be trouble free and I can live with minor bugs from time to time. 

Good Day Guys!

    What fule additives do you use on your diesel trucks? How often do you use them?

TED

I think an older diesel sounds like a good match for you, they are simple and often more reliable than the new ones due to a lack of EPA emissions requirements on them.  In a Dodge pre '07.5 has a lot less emissions controls than the current models and if you go back to '98 or older they are much better yet.  The engine on a '94-'98 Dodge is as close to bullet proof as you will find and the only electronics besides the alternator is the fuel shut off solenoid, there is very little you can't repair on that engine yourself in your garage and there are so many of those engines out there that parts are dirt cheap. 

Your desire to do your own maintenance/repairs combined with the low miles you would put on it and the fact that you aren't pulling a real heavy trailer would be a perfect match for an older diesel.  Biggest downside is probably going to be the fact that those engines only had around 200hp from the factory but that is easy and cheap to upgrade. 

On our farm we have a '99 Dodge with 200,000+ miles, an '01 with 260,000 and a few months ago I bought an '05 with 249,000 miles.  Reliability on these higher mile engines has been very good, you do have some other maintenance like you would on any other high mileage vehicle but they also see use that puts a lot more wear on suspension and drivetrain parts than a normal truck would see.

Gary....how often is common for changing fuel filters?

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Generally the fuel filter should be changed annually, regardless of mileage, but diesel fuel can pick up sludge from moisture content or grow an "algae" (technically is a bacteria) that can clog a filter seemingly overnight. It is wise to always have a spare fuel filter handy and change at the first sign of a performance problem. The single filter in a pick-up diesel also acts as a water separator and the owner manual probably instruct you to drain water out on a regular basis (monthly?). Mostly you won't find any water, but once in awhile...

Adding a pre-filter to a pick-up diesel may well be a wise move. The diesels in a Class A motorhome chassis have a two filter set-up.

I'm not sure why you are rejecting a used one. You could buy a 100k old truck and still get 10-15 more years out of it. Other things will wear out long before the engine. And $20k seems like a far cry from the $60k you can expect to pay for a new one. But if you keep it long enough, the extra upfront cost of a new one gets amortized, and the resale value seems to stay good and will do so as long as the demand for used diesels keeps up. That's hard to predict out 10-15 years, though.

What fule additives do you use on your diesel trucks? How often do you use them?

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Short answer: NONE. Neither Cummins nor Cat nor Navistar recommend any of them.

That said, I use a biocide in my fuel tank when the coach sits idle at our Florida home during the winter. That's a precaution against the agae that can grow in diesel in a high moisture environment. I also try to keep the tank near full when it is idle, for the same reason.

Gary RV Roamer said:

the diesel-grade coolant requiring periodic additives (SCA/DCA)

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Gary, could you talk on this just a little. I'm fairly new to diesels and have not heard about this until now. Thanks for any info.

SCA or DCA coolant additive is necessary in Cummins engines to prevent pitting or corrosion of liners or cooling system components. The additive can be introduced to the cooling system as a liquid or as a slow-release from an "SCA filter". More reading:

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT32599_09.pdf

Cummins ES Compleat long-life coolant reduces the possibility of corrosion, but Cummins suggests that SCA additive may still be needed:

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/es_compleat/es_compleat.html

I have had 4 different diesel pick ups, all Dodge's with the Cummins power plant. When I changed trucks it was for the passenger seating, not the reliability of the truck. Your thinking is correct, for towing a load, you can't beat a diesel.

If you do buy new, the Cummins comes with a 5 year 100K mile warranty on the motor, so expensive repairs, if they occurred are not an issue.  My current truck is an 08' 2500 long bed auto, and it is pulling my new 36' fiver like a dream. The recommended filter changes are at 7500 miles, and are easily done by me.

Go for the diesel, you won't regret it.

Tom said:

SCA or DCA coolant additive is necessary in Cummins engines to prevent pitting or corrosion of liners or cooling system components. The additive can be introduced to the cooling system as a liquid or as a slow-release from an "SCA filter". More reading:

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Thanks Tom,