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Author Topic: Wal Mart crime  (Read 24306 times)


Tom

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 08:39:40 PM »
If that's a true story, it's scary. I respect the folks who like to overnight at WalMart, but this story merely adds to my resolve to avoid them. Whenever my other half says "let's pull into WM over there", I reply "we don't know the town and don't know the area". Saving $30 and the small amount of time it takes to pull into a campground isn't worth losing your life over.
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Jackliz

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 08:54:27 PM »
If that's a true story, it's scary. I respect the folks who like to overnight at WalMart, but this story merely adds to my resolve to avoid them. Whenever my other half says "let's pull into WM over there", I reply "we don't know the town and don't know the area". Saving $30 and the small amount of time it takes to pull into a campground isn't worth losing your life over.

Amen. I am with you re: Walmart. We have only stopped there one time long enough to have some lunch.

Terrible story.

Liz
Regards,
Jack and Liz Pearce and Oreo the Escape Cat
Fulltiming in a 1993 Wanderlodge WB 40 ft
Dhanis, TX - Winter
Buena Vista, CO - Summer

Shayne

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 09:22:31 PM »
Sad story.  I myself have stayed in 1 WM in all the years of RVing and that was this past March when we went back home. It was in the town we used to live in and I called the ASSt Mgr, cause I know him, and asked if it was OK.   He said absolutely, you know the rules 1 night out of the way and make sure there is no mess.  I said thank you and told the clerk inside thanks and did some shopping and went to the RV.   That  was after 9PM a I was gone before 7 Am. No slides out and didn't use the Jacks for 1 night, no generator, no Awning. didn't bother to unhook.
Old, Stubborn, Opinionated, Set in my Ways, and Independent,  IMHO

Wendy

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2006, 09:31:59 PM »
That was a pretty skimpy story. Makes you wonder what details were left out. I've never felt in danger at any Wal-Mart when we've stayed there and they all have security cameras and security personnel on 24/7 so the local police should be able to piece together what happened. Same thing could certainly happen at any campground, rest stop, Flying J, etc.

I do agree though that you should ask if it's ok before staying at any Wal-Mart.
Wendy, Mike, and Gordon
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John From Detroit

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2006, 09:38:00 PM »
Amen. I am with you re: Walmart. We have only stopped there one time long enough to have some lunch.

Terrible story.

Liz

I've mentioned that if I ever overnight at Wall Mart it will be just one night..   In fact, so far, the only times I've pulled off into a wall mart lot were

1: Had to pull off somewhere for a few minutes, never exited the MH, never killed the engine (I'll let you figure out why I pulled off)

2: Droped towed and headed to an office a few miles away to buy some gifts

3: Lunch at an eatery on the edge of the lot.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Phil

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 12:20:26 AM »
If that's a true story, it's scary. I respect the folks who like to overnight at WalMart, but this story merely adds to my resolve to avoid them.

Tom,

Here are a couple of links on the story.  The police have not yet told the news people which of the four people in the RV did the actual shooting.  We are supposed to get a news release from the police Thursday morning.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=383341

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=383341&comments=true

Phil

motojavaphil

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 12:43:31 AM »
A very tragic event for all involved.  I have weapons at my disposal in the event of someone breaking in.  Many RVers are older folks who would be at the mercy of a young man such as the one pictured.  Do Walmarts have a high crime rate?  I really dont know but it cant be any worse than a rest area or truck stop.  Sometimes if pressed for time I will stay in a truck stop or rest area but have never ever had a problem.  Would I defend myself and family if someone was breaking in, yes and with any force necessary.  The RV population tends to be older and therefore seen as easy prey to bad guys.  Self defense is justified tho unfortunate if needed. 
Phil, Carol, Ariel, Grey Lady
2009 Carriage Cameo
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Ray D

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 12:56:52 AM »
The only "facts" in this story, as presented, is that someone died from a gunshot, at an RV, in a WalMart parking lot. The gun may have been a shotgun. The someone who was shot had a Misdemeanor criminal record. The RV owner and whoever was with him/her are still in town, cooperating with the police.  The rest of the story is unreported.

Certain comments in the story jump out at me, but I don't know anything, from what is reported, as to those issues. One comment, for example, that rings in loud is that there was no immediate arrest. Conclusions, based upon those news sound bites, are bound to be faulty.

That this happened in a WalMart parking lot is irrelevant to the conclusion. It could have happened, anywhere. Ordinary personal safety rules apply. I don't think I'd answer the door, if someone knocked on it at that time of night, but "maybe" he represented himself as a WalMart employee. Maybe one of the residents was a child, and the child opened the door. Maybe - - - . The problem with my comment is "maybe." I don't know who or why they answered the door.

Typical of news reporting, says very little and nothing of substance, while using a lot of words.

It's all speculation. Wait for the police report and the follow up from the Prosecutor. It is certainly a tragedy, but we don't know what kind of tragedy. There are degrees of losers, in this event, with no winners.


Ray D
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

Phil

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 12:58:13 AM »
A very tragic event for all involved. 

Video link for tonights TV report.

http://kutv.com/video

Phil

Tom

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 03:38:57 AM »
Thanks for the links Phil. Sounds like the facts are not all out yet. While we're waiting, I'll continue to stay at campgrounds rather than overnight at WM.

Only once has someone knocked on the door of our RV in the middle of the night. We were boondocking and it was the cops who came knocking, but that was scary enough for me.
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Chet18013

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 06:05:30 AM »
Seems to me that the point missing here is, the Intruder got shot, NOT the RV owner. I would hope most folks interpet this as "don't mess with the RVs in a WALMART parkling lot".

Chet18013
Chet18013
Full time in a 45' '04 Monaco Signature
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Tom

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 07:37:22 AM »
Didn't miss that point Chet. We don't carry weapons so, had it been us in the RV, we might have been the ones who lost their lives.

Quote
I would hope most folks interpet this as "don't mess with the RVs in a WALMART parkling lot".

That would be nice, but I fear the publicity might just bring more attention to"easy pickings" in the eyes of the bad guys.
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hildyj

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2006, 07:46:32 AM »
I have stopped many times for overnights at walmart - and I have to admit I have always felt quite safe.  There are always other RVs around and I do travel with my dogs (dobermans) so I have built in security  :) But also it is the norm to see security patrolling at night.  Because i travel with my dogs it is really helpful that i can open the sliders when i stop at a walmart, which i cant do at truck stops.   I love stopping at the walmarts as invariably i can do some last minute shopping.  Most walmarts have nice big grassy areas which are perfect for exing the dogs. 

Tom

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2006, 07:51:46 AM »
I have stopped many times for overnights at walmart - and I have to admit I have always felt quite safe.

A lot of RVers, including close friends of ours, feel the same way and I respect that. Hopefully bad publicity doesn't cause WM to change their 'RVs welcome' policy.
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Jim Dick

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 09:13:40 AM »
We have stayed at several WalMarts and never felt threatened. However we do it in a motor home. I would not feel as safe in a trailer. The good thing with a motor home is you can start the coach and drive away without having to get out of the rig. I always make sure the step is in. The toad is locked without the key in the ignition. I'd rather risk a little damage to tires by not having the wheel unlocked than leaving a key where someone could break in and drive away easily. If someone was to knock on the door it would not be opened until we could determine who it was. A call to 911 might easily be made if the person appeared to be threatening.

I think the bottom line is one must always be aware of their surroundings and not stay in any area that looks like it might bring trouble.
Jim

Titusville, Florida
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Tom

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2006, 10:45:11 AM »
Jim,

Good point about being able to drive away. FWIW the Chevy Suburban, Tahoe and Envoy don't have mechanical steering locks, so the key never needs to be in and no tire damage. I learned that from Terry and haven't used they key since.
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Ray D

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2006, 11:16:13 AM »
We have three large Wal Mart stores in town. If they were a personal safety problem, I would be aware of that, and I am not. I am aware of some shoplifting and a few domestic quarrels. Actually, very few of those if the size of the stores and their parking lots is taken into account.

I have never overnighted at a Wal Mart, but not for reason of personal safety. It just hasn’t been needed, in my travels, so far. I would not hesitate, if a Wal Mart was convenient and I needed a nap. I would use ordinary precautions, the same as anywhere else.

The type of crime that occurs in any given place should be an issue. In our most extraordinary case, we overnighted at a Flying J, north of Salt Lake City, three years ago. We were tired, when we got there, and it was late. (6:00 PM give or take.) Filled up, ask permission to park, and was directed to the truck parking area which was huge. Decided to eat out, and get to bed.

On the way from the truck stop café, back to the RV, my wife called my attention to a pickup truck, in the parking lot. We observed a “commercial transaction,” there. Given where we do our volunteer work, it was terribly obvious. Neither of them made any attempt to conceal what they were doing.

Decided to watch, for a few minutes and make up our minds about our safety. That business was fairly steady for the next half hour, as twilight began to descend. We saw both armed and unarmed security. A Police patrol unit cruised through, slowly, but didn’t stop. (Business paused as the cop drove through.) We elected to stay and watch, a little longer.

Less than half an hour later, a small car with four women inside pulled into the lot, right in front of our vehicle, and parked. A truck driver walked over and started a conversation. Made a friend, immediately. She returned in about half an hour, to an empty car, and wasn’t there, long. They made a lot of friends, that evening, and were still there, making friends, when we went to bed. Just before we went to bed, the Police made another drive thru.

I elected that we were safe, and we went to bed, in the midst of a crime wave. Woke up in the morning and drove on, quite refreshed.

Don’t get me wrong. There was a very serious, immediate threat, to your safety and mine, in that parking lot, that night. There were twenty or thirty truckers who drove out, in the wee hours of the morning, still under the residual influence of their personal favorite narcotic. They went directly to the Interstate, and some of them headed your way. Later in the morning, each of them passed you, or a friend of yours, and all you knew was that a big rig had overtaken you.

Down the road, we are slowed to a crawl as we pass a wreck. A semi is overturned and a passenger car has been squashed. There are State Police units, and Paramedics, a lot of them! Wonder what happened? Minutes later, traffic clears up, again, and we continue on our way.

We get “lucky” every day, and often we don’t know it when it happens!

Ray D
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

motojavaphil

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2006, 11:20:27 AM »
I think this was a random thing that could have happened anywhere.  Cedar City is not crime central and as I recall it is a College Town.  During my visits there I have visited that Walmart, not as a camper but as a customer, and never felt threatened.  It is a neat town which I would not have minded moving to if I were looking for a new home.  RVer's for the most part do not cruise the streets looking for trouble nor do they affliate with gang activity and haul their families around while doing this.  If you are staying anywhere, even a campground, and you get a knock on the door after dark, I would not open it.  I'd speak thru the door and if there is a problem, such as I have to move, I'd acknowlege it without opening the door.  Perhaps installing a peephole, or getting the manufacturers to do it is not a bad idea.  If at a Walmart and the person identifies themselves as an employee ask them for the managers phone number and call that person to verify.  It is obvious one should not open the door.  Robbery is all too common nowadays...Phil 
Phil, Carol, Ariel, Grey Lady
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woodartist

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2006, 12:42:34 PM »
http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060727/NEWS01/60727001/1002

Yes, Cedar City is a nice town and we stayed overnight at that Wal Mart a month ago. However the Southern Utah growth from the Californians is rapidly increasing. Not sure how long it will remain a nice small town, witness St. George. Yes, it could have happened anywhere, but it didn't. When we stayed at the Wal Mart in Santa Fe for a few days ( real experience) I got to know the security guard there. Mentioned we were heading to Albuquerque and he advised not staying at any of the Wal Marts there. We didn't. However, most of the Wal Marts we have stayed at...all over the West, except Ca., didn't seem to pose any threats. We will still stay at them, although I decided to clean the shot gun today and put in some fresh buckshot ;) One item that jumped out in the news report today was the issue of Wal Mart's liability. ::) Saw that coming for years and wonder if that will have any effect on their Dry Camping policy. Just a matter of time I suppose. Seems if permission is granted to park, then there are liability issues...not necessarily in this incident.......

John From Detroit

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2006, 04:08:56 PM »
It is a fact, in days  of old crooks were not so bold and some neighborhoods were fairly safe

However today we have a very large number of, well, junkies, and to a junkie that money in your wallet.. It's his, we also have teen gangs that go out to "Get Paid" and they don't respect any neigborhood, or for that matter anyone..  I mean when one teen gang member pulled his gun a friend of mine pushed his girl to safety, and announced he was state police,  He literly died on his shield (The convicted gang members appealed their sentence, at the re-sentencing the judge spend rather a long time praising the morals and actions of the deceased victim trooper.  He also listened to the pleas of the convicts, and promptly sentenced them to enough time in the pokey to insure they don't ever get out and kill again. (60 years if memory serves, to 150)

This was in one of the safest, and best patrolled, parts of Detroit

(By the way, the convicts still don't respect, they don't know how to respect, however I suspect they are learning)

You see, the trooper was in the way of their "Getting paid"

One of the mothers of the convicts made some comment about the cops grabbing "The first black kid they could get their hands on" and in truth we did, but he was a different case, Turns out he had nothing to do with the killing, he's doing 30 years for possission with intent to distribute though.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Woody

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2006, 07:10:26 PM »
John,

Its already started here in Indiana with the "I65 sniper shooting". They are blaming his problems on the fact that there was no "remedial training" at the school he went to.

Woody

Jim Dick

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2006, 07:48:49 PM »
Jim,

Good point about being able to drive away. FWIW the Chevy Suburban, Tahoe and Envoy don't have mechanical steering locks, so the key never needs to be in and no tire damage. I learned that from Terry and haven't used they key since.

Tom,

That is just one more advantage for motor homes. :)
Jim

Titusville, Florida
U.S. Navy Veteran
2000 American Dream 40' DP
2012 GMC Terrain
2006 Suzuki Boulevard C50T Motorcycle
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woodartist

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2006, 06:37:02 PM »

Ray D

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2006, 09:10:38 PM »
woodartist: Thanks for the update.

The information is starting to get out, and I'll observe that it is looking better for the shooter. Don't take it to the bank til the Prosecutor says what he is going to do. He's the fat lady, that sings.

Interesting looking "motorhome." - - - Is that a Class C?

Ray D
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

Phil

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2006, 12:17:15 AM »

John From Detroit

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2006, 08:27:04 AM »
You know, every time I hear of one of these cases where some jerk forces his way into a home and winds up dead I hear no end of what a nice kid he was, How he was kind to puppies, always treated his mother with respect and on and on and on and on

This in spite of a criminal history (in many cases) so long I had to put a new roll of paper in the pirnter to print it out!

I'll wait for the investigation to finish before I form an opinion
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Ray D

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2006, 09:05:17 AM »
John: I am right there with you.

Couple of observations:

1. Almost every felon has another side, and his actions are a big surprise to some, if not all, of his family. Some turn a blind eye to shenanigans of their "ner do well" offspring. I do have some sympathy for them. This has to be a shock, especially if the rest of his short life story is correctly represented.

2, Utah is a "Make My Day" state, and honors all out of state firearms permits. The only element required for personal defense is a tumultuous entry. Yep, that does it! If he misrepresented himself to gain entry, no criminal case! And, the state has to prove he didn't. Pretty difficult, given the set of circumstances already leaked by police.

3. Assume for the sake of argument, that the facts are as presented. (Never a safe presumption but useful for educated speculation.) Then we have a really seriously injured crime victim, from Florida. It is far worse than it appears! They are far from home, stuck in a strange town, their vacation fatally interrupted. It's over, for a long time to come.

Still on our unsafe speculation, but going on what is there, so far, had dad not acted - his family was toast, wife and two small girls. But, we are led by pretty strong evidence (the corpse) that he did act. His family is safe, unharmed. Ummm - - - - safe, that is, if you don't take into account the nightmares those little girls will have, for the rest of their lives, due to what they witnessed at such a young age. If you don't count the horrible trauma the parents will endure, forever more. It was so close to a different kind of tragedy.

The shooter is worried about his family's future, even now, already. He would like to know if he is going to be arrested, and if so, what happens to his family. How will they cope, his wife and those two little girls?

He has hired a criminal defense attorney, and the financial cost begins. He pays plenty, even if he is not eventually arrested. If he goes to trial - then the bottom falls out, at the bank. We are not talking about a slow leak, here.

With the assumptions, so far, and the comments from the family of the deceased, I see in my crystal ball that he is going to have to hire a civil attorney, also. May have already done that. He loses, there, even if he wins! Worse, that will drag on, for years. He will need a home state (Florida) attorney, associated with his local civil attorney.

Like I said, earlier, there are no winners here. Only degrees of tragic losers.

We are in the opening scene, the beginning. Long, drawn out, theater! The "fat lady" hasn't sung, yet. She won't, for a couple of years, maybe more!

Ray D

« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 09:16:04 AM by Ray D »
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

John From Detroit

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2006, 06:04:21 PM »
Well, Ray, as to the guilt, innocence, responsibility and such of the shooter and the shootee,  Living as I do in Detroit I've seen far too many of these cases to form an opinion based on what's in the news paper.  Note: Some of the information I've seen is not public (I was a Police Dispatcher) There were more than a few cases where I knew the truth, I witnessed the truth, but I also read the paper and know from expiernce that the papers print what sells, the truth, often does not sell.

So, I agree with you on all but one point,  Just one point.

You said "There are no winners"

Some years ago there was a law suit, A customer and a car dealer argued their cases in court.  At the end of the day a settlement was reached and blessed by the court.  A reporter (A wise reporter, a rare item) asked the dealer who won.  The wise dealer (Somewhat less rare than a wise reporter) replied "The Lawyers"

In cases like this the Lawyers are the winners, the only winners, and may well be deserving of a blast from that shotgun, but still they are the winners

As for the shooter and shootee and their framilies  We are in frull aggrement
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Ray D

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Re: Wal Mart crime
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2006, 06:21:05 PM »
Copy that, John. I forgot about the lawyers, while I was talking about lawyers. Go figure!

Ray D
Boise, Idaho. U.S.A.F. Vet. Damon Challenger, Workhorse/Vortec, 2005 towing a Suzuki XL-7, 2003.

 

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